Restart for JSA claimants

Yes good point, the claimants who get roped into the microsoft team sessions they do for hours on end (courses on "well being" and "how to eat" i kid you not) will be taking the financial hit on electricity during peak times - i doubt the expenses chapter in guidance would mention it.

search YouTube for provider's name and you can see how stupid these courses really are

''The claimant should be able to speak to the provider without their work coach listening in ''

I wonder if their breaching any privacy act,  telecommunications, human rights laws,  forcing someone to use their home line to talk a bunch of crap with these unwanted/uninvited Muppets effectively, as we all know, talking about nothing ?

From what mandy tori describes [the microsoft team sessions ] does sound something to be avoided at all cost if that's actually possible.I feel how to switch a pc on and here is the many ways to use a mouse.I know these silly sods nearly had me doing a 3 month course on how to use a smartphone to look for work. I was lucky in that i proved that i could, its just the moron employers would not hire me

Has anyone refused to give their email address.

I would make an email address just for restart..

i read in the guidance somewhere that if DWP have no email address for a claimant on their records to pass to provider they use an email linked to dwp, if that is the case i am assuming the 4 or so pc terminals at far end of providers office will be used for dragging you in to do job searching there, i did notice they had the "remploy" logo on them (was that the ex-convict provider??) that would have you using their portal without a doubt in my opinion

Do they put the gov email address cos they need one for referral process. Don't see how they can make someone use it if there's more than one person without email address. There can only be one password per email address.

Topaz wrote:Do they put the gov email address cos they need one for referral process. Don't see how they can make someone use it if there's more than one person without email address. There can only be one password per email address.

as per chapter 2b

"2.22. When checking a referral on PRaP, if a Potential Participant’s email address is listed as noemail@dwp.gov.uk, you should be aware this is a dummy email address and must not be used. This email address is input into the DWP IT systems for Potential Participants who do not have a registered email address."

source:-

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/restart-provider-guidance/chapter-2b-referral-process-and-initial-engagement-income-based-jobseekers-allowance-claimants-jsa-ib

Work coaches are acting as if Restart is the MWA scheme.

From Chapter 34 JSA Sanctions:

   Pre-selection interview
   34770 The informal pre-selection discussion with the advisor (work coach) does not form part of the mandatory work scheme1 as notified under relevant legislation2. A sanction will only be appropriate once the claimant has been offered a placement and has been notified of their requirement to participate in the scheme and the claimant fails to participate in the scheme without good reason.

   Note: The pre-selection interview is a normal advisor interview to discuss further case management and a sanction would be considered under the normal JSA rules for refusal or failure to carry out any reasonable JSD (see DMG 34901) or failed to participate in an interview rules (see DMG 34831) if appropriate in the circumstances.
   1 JS Act 95, s 17A; 2 JSA (MWA Scheme) Regs, reg 4

   34771 If there is a request by the provider to attend a pre-start interview that is outside the MWA 4 week mandated period and the claimant fails to attend/take part a sanction cannot be considered as this interview is not part of the MWA as notified.

The above is suspiciously similar to work coaches "mandating" claimants into the warm handover call during a WSR and afterwards referring to it as a "discussion" when in reality it was a provider ringing up before they've got a purchase order. There is no pre-selection interview under SAPOE Regulations, nor is there any requirement for the claimant to do anything at all, such as speak to a provider, before being officially notified of their requirement to participate in Restart and then the provider ringing to get a first meeting date.

On viewing WHP documents (also a SAPOE Scheme) I discovered this:

9. You may choose to mandate Long Term Unemployed (LTU) Participants who were referred to you on or after 9 May 2022 to attend this meeting. Any mandatory appointments must be notified by the appropriate MAN (Mandatory Activity Notification). If it has not been possible to contact the Participant, you should still book an initial meeting, sending out details to the Participant to confirm.

What's so special about 9 May 2022? It's the day managed migration re-commenced.

Once I am on Restart or the WHP, I expect soft nudges about switching to UC will turn into outright threats of a sanction if I continue to resist. 50,000 JSA claimants switching to UC voluntarily when they are on Restart will save the DWP the bother of a) supporting claimants to switch via managed migration, b) sending out notices and c) it helps the provider push claimants into 16 hour per week jobs rather than the full time work that generally appears on most JSA CCs. They are predicting that once managed migration is over there will be 8.5 million people on UC.

good find re the 9th of may, yes i am fully convinced that jsa claimants on restart is primarily focused on migrating - last time speaking with my coach she asked if i had discussed switching to UC with my provider yet even though i have stated multiple times a few months ago it didn't appear to be in my best interests.

You have to wonder if like when I completed the 'Work Program', I was treated as a 'new claim' by the JCP , I believe this was to massage the job less figures .
However, could this be used to 'managed migrate' legacy benefits Claimant's on to the UC?

i might mention the word "tribunal" often when speaking to them just to make it crystal clear that a sanction doubt had better be a good one as it isn't just a sanction for jsa claimants.

don't expect them to understand that statement from my previous interactions with them however
.

At face to face meeting, does provider have the right to make a copy of ID or can you just show it to them? Do you need something with date of birth?

MT -

she asked if i had discussed switching to UC with my provider yet even though i have stated multiple times a few months ago it didn't appear to be in my best interests.

They act like they can sanction us for not claiming UC if we don't give a good enough reason why not.   I won't give them any reasons now. They don't listen anyway making anything I say a waste of my time.

MT -

i might mention the word "tribunal" often when speaking to them just to make it crystal clear that a sanction doubt had better be a good one as it isn't just a sanction for jsa claimants.

Unfortunately a switch to UC prevents a JSA claim from being re-opened by a tribunal even if the decision to sanction was wrong. It can take between 20 and 38 weeks to get to a tribunal. It has to be stopped at the DM stage before a UC claim is made.

Pintel:  

could this be used to 'managed migrate' legacy benefits Claimant's on to the UC?

Possibly.  I allowed the WP to "park" me for 2 years and I can't let that happen again, either via Restart or via the WHP, whichever one they decide to actually bother to properly refer me to.

Topaz wrote:At face to face meeting, does provider have the right to make a copy of ID or can you just show it to them? Do you need something with date of birth?

All you need to take to that meeting to prove who you are is the notice the DWP gave you mandating you to attend that meeting. You wouldn't be on JSA if you had no right to work in the UK so there is no need for them to do a "right to work" check.  

Here's Reed's bollocks about ID if you are not sure:

https://www.standguide.co.uk/reedtraining/starts0522/index.html#/lessons/MyRqoV_EjaY_ObTpMSHLBhBHON_ai7pD

No photocopies of any of the documents provided should be taken.

Consent to share
Department for Work and Pensions
Fair Processing Notice and Onprogramme Support (page 20).
Please sign to confirm that you consent to Ingeus and our Delivery Partners sending your CV and application forms via email to necessary recipients (including employers) in order to support you into employment.
Signature....
Date....
I refused to sign the above. Showed them foi about not mandatory to sign provider forms, participant can refuse to sign, and they took a copy. Provider said will contact WC.
What will happen? Is this not participating? Can doubt be raised or sanction?
See next replies showing P. 20 and p18

The previous post is on P25. It doesn't give option to discuss or refuse consent to share (i)Fair Processing Notice and (ii) On - Programme Support (P.20) and requires signature
It lumps them both together for consent only.

However there are earlier pages with info :-
P20 says the following
.(I) " Consent to Share
Department for Work and Pensions Fair Processing Notice
We, the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP), need to record and share information about your
employment activity. The information shared will be between DWP, employers and our contracted
service providers. This information will be used by DWP (and, where relevant, those contracted to
provide auditing services to DWP):
• to validate and audit payment claims from employers and service providers, for the running of the Restart Scheme; and
• in relation to job interview performance. To corroborate details of your employment activity, where appropriate, we will need to confirm details with each of your employers. "

The above is the part I'm not sure about.It doesn't say anything about discussion to gain consent. Will they share info about employment activity regardless of signature.

Then P20 goes on to say:-
(ii) "On-programme Support
Sending your CV and application forms.
To support you into employment we may need to send your CV and/or application forms via email to
employers or to your own email account. "
We may also share your contact details with external providers in order that that can directly speak to you about specific services that they are delivering as part of the restart scheme. Your adviser will always discuss these opportunities with you prior to sharing any personal data and gain your consent ".

This is confusing. Why no option to refuse consent.

This is the provider handbook link:-
https://ingeus.co.uk/INGEUS/media/Documents/Restart/Welcome_restart-scheme-manchester.pdf

SEE P17 "Sharing your Personal Information" (There is no Annex A). Also.. 'We will not share info with others unless required to do so by law and unless we obtain your consent'.
P18 "Consent paragraph" ( if you agree consent to share info we will record consent) and
"Right to Withdraw Consent paragraph". (you have the right to withdraw consent at any time by telling your adviser). And
" Keeping your Information Safe" (in most cases you decide if and how your information will be shared).

I don't feel I had enough time during my session to understand and absorb the booklet. I was confused and the final declaration page 25 "Consent to Share" contradicted the options to agree consent to share, that the previous pages had. It simply said 'sign and confirm consent...
I tried to get clarity but time ran out. I suffer from anxiety and insomnia and am stressed now about what WC will do.

Wc can't do nothing, you turned up to take part, why should you have to sign any forms if this so called program is mandatory

Showed them foi about not mandatory to sign provider forms, participant can refuse to sign, and they took a copy. Provider said will contact WC. What will happen? Is this not participating? Can doubt be raised or sanction?

The FOI proves the provider has no legal right to get you to sign any of their documents. The provider can reasonably ask you sign in general to say you got the induction pack. They can reasonably ask you sign an expenses claim form. They can reasonably ask you to sign the fire register. They cannot unreasonably ask you to sign away all your rights regarding your CV at the first meeting without you knowing what the legal implications of that might be.

I don't feel I had enough time during my session to understand and absorb the booklet. I was confused and the final declaration page 25 "Consent to Share" contradicted the options to agree consent to share, that the previous pages had. It simply said 'sign and confirm consent...
I tried to get clarity but time ran out. I suffer from anxiety and insomnia and am stressed now about what WC will do.

The word consent itself is sufficient to indicate that they need your permission. The word "please" indicates it's a request. It's up to you to decide whether or not to give them your CV. I gave the work programme provider a copy of my CV, which they then mangled and dumbed down. I barred them from sending that CV to anyone without telling me up front where it was going. I used their CV in job applications and was told by one employer that I didn't have enough experience. That came about due to the provider removing all my experience off my CV. I was so angry I banned the provider from holding a copy of my CV or ever being allowed to mangle it again. They cost me a job interview.  

I don't have time right now to go through the Ingeus booklet, but I'll peruse it later to see how they've failed to take into account that JSA is not UC.

From Statutory guidance. Annex 6: Consent to share participant information. Updated 27 June 2022 :-
" If you do not give consent, this will not affect your entitlement to participate in the programme, or any job offer or employment obtained. You can write to [provider] at any time to withdraw your consent and this will not affect your placement on the programme or any employment or offer of employment made.

Participant name (Please print name in full)

I * give consent for [provider], my future employer and DWP to share information as described in stages 1 to 3 above. I confirm that:

I have read the information above and understand why this information sharing is needed and how this information will be used.

I understand that:

If I am in receipt of any benefits, my entitlement to these benefits will not depend on whether I choose to give consent or not. My placement on any programme with [provider] and any employment or future offer of employment will not depend on whether I choose to give consent or not. I can withdraw my consent at any time by writing to [provider]
Signature
Date "

Could someone add in " do not " at asterisk * and then sign? or just not sign?

I will put the link for Annex 6 in next reply.

Topaz, has a document reflecting the text shown in Annex 6 been presented to you, for you to sign?

Your employers will use your name and national insurance number to identify you, so that they can confirm to [provider] some or all of the following information:

   The date you began each period of your employment;
   whether your employment is continuing;
   if not continuing, the date each period of your employment ended;
   whether you were employed during a specific period;
   the number of hours you worked each week;
   the amount of your earnings each week;
   your employee number or other unique identifier. This information can only be provided where company payroll/structures exist, and therefore if no payroll numbers or detail is present, this information cannot be supplied

Employers (plural)?  

I give consent for [provider], my future employer and DWP to share information as described in stages 1 to 3 above.

Wow. Er, no. Claimants don't have the right to consent to something the employer might not want to have to put up with.

Topaz wrote:Could someone add in " do not " at asterisk * and then sign? or just not sign?

Why bother? Their form is a contract that you do not have to sign.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/cy/request/uc_sanctions_for_not_starting_or

all 3rd party providers/company's for profit will want a signed contract so that they can gain funding for it dwp own rules states you dont have to sign 3rd party PAperwork or contracts.

even if you are sent somewhere buy the jcp with a letter stating that it is mandatory yes you have to attend but not enter in to contracts with providers with a wet sig as that is contract lAw.

the dwp has tried it on with me with a sanction for not signing providers contract form as the dm decided i was required to buy law and i won at tribunal in 9mins.

so at the end of the day if you attend and refuse to sign the providers contract or enrollment forms there is noting the dwp can do about it.

No, I found statutory guidelines, annex 6 online.
The provider asked me to sign Consent to Share on page 25 of the provider handbook (Ingeus). I gave text for this on my post on 25 July at 2.00pm.

the provider has to contact your WC if you decline to sign, it is in their guidelines to report it to work coach, as you have shown the foi your in the same position as i am. i have told them I won't be signing any provider paperwork.

if they mandate you to sign it which is highly doubtful as it would be "under duress" the likely outcome would be in your favour as per the foi.

by not signing you are not giving consent for them to apply using your cv to their partner network (aka the elusive hidden job market) thats why they really want your consent.

don't give them a cv via email as that would be consent by agreement (i think this would be implied consent potentially)