Restart program

When did you start the work programme and have you signed anything yet? Like the action plan?
No it is not a mandate yet but it could be.

If you are on JSA they are not allowed to put a number of jobs to apply for.

Gallazz wrote:

Absolut wrote:It was Lord Fraud who thought up Universal Credit, but IDS allowed the public to think he was the architect of it. It was Tony Blair who brought in the tougher sanctions regime in 2012, but Labour has allowed most people to believe it's only Tories that come up with such life diminishing ideas. They pretend it's a two party system, but it's really one head with 2 faces.

Sorry, how could Tony Blair have brought in the tougher sanctions regime? Labour had left office in 2010 and Brown took over from Blair some time before that.

A sanction regime existed in 2002, under Blair, and no-one can dispute that.

Absolut wrote:.

[/quote]

Absolut wrote:

wrote:.

A sanction regime existed in 2002, under Blair, and no-one can dispute that.

You know me Absolut. I can dispute anything, whether right or wrong as long as it disrupts the DWP costing them time and money. All for the greater good of course.

Absolut wrote:

Gallazz wrote:

Absolut wrote:It was Lord Fraud who thought up Universal Credit, but IDS allowed the public to think he was the architect of it. It was Tony Blair who brought in the tougher sanctions regime in 2012, but Labour has allowed most people to believe it's only Tories that come up with such life diminishing ideas. They pretend it's a two party system, but it's really one head with 2 faces.

Sorry, how could Tony Blair have brought in the tougher sanctions regime? Labour had left office in 2010 and Brown took over from Blair some time before that.

A sanction regime existed in 2002, under Blair, and no-one can dispute that.

I'm not disputing that, but your post refers to 2012, when the duration of sanctions to JSA was increased substantially. The Bedroom Tax was also introduced under the same act of parliament.

Similarly, Lord Freud defected to the Tories because he thought his suggestions for welfare reform were too 'radical' for Labour to implement, but I as I understand it, he didn't come up with the idea of Universal Credit - The Centre for Social Justice, IDS's think tank, did.

It's quite clearly Tory reforms which have caused so much hardship for benefit claimants since 2010. I've seen them misattributed to Labour on similar forums, and frankly, it's beyond weird.

I don't see Labour as looking out for benefit claimants (at least under the current leadership), but I doubt that things would've got this bad with them in office.

I am on UC Absolut does the same rules apply for job numbers?

niceguy1984 wrote:I am on UC Absolut does the same rules apply for job numbers?

Take a look at the Restart scheme providers guidance on the gov.uk or follow the links from the start of this thread.
Look at chapter 8A. 8.12

Gallazz wrote:I'm not disputing that, but your post refers to 2012

Yes, I got the year wrong. I meant 2002.

niceguy1984 wrote:I am on UC Absolut does the same rules apply for job numbers?

Please do read the Restart provider documents for UC, particularly the chapter about what is voluntary versus what is mandated. They recently updated them.

Where job search is concerned courts of law do not deal with contractor's actions plans and that means there is no access to justice regarding them. An AP is simply a piece of a paper. Signing an AP does not give it any force law and never will.

For a sanction to occur the action must be on a mandatory activity notification (MAN) which is then not complied with.

On top of that all instructions or agreements about job search activity (whether voluntary or mandatory) must be reasonable and achievable. If a CC has an unreasonable activity on it you can refer it to a decision maker before signing it. That does not and cannot happen with an AP. That is why they must issue a MAN if they do not want that action to be voluntary.

A provider cannot send a signed or unsigned AP to a DM in order to get a sanction for non-compliance with what is in it. They can send the AP to a work coach who can insert the instruction into a CC, but that then means they didn't issue a MAN first and any revised CC (at the behest of a person who isn't a work coach) can be referred to a DM.

So the question is, is applying for x amount of jobs per week reasonable and achievable or did the Restart employee (who likely knows nothing about the labour market) simply pull a number out of their arse? What exactly are they doing to help you get a job? Telling you to apply for x amount of jobs per week in a AP is not helping you get a job. It's simply telling you to get a job while they sit there and do nothing other than bilk tax payer money.

Only you know how many applications you can reasonably make in a week. It may be zero one week and 10 the following week. Please do point out to your Restart advisor that job seekers have no control over how many jobs that fit their CC agreement are going to be advertised each week and that is why most work coaches don't put "apply for x amount of jobs per week" into CC agreements. What happens if you only apply for 5? Are they going to report the lack of a 6th one to your work coach? Wouldn't that be rather petty and vindictive? Do they really think they can get any mileage out of 1 thing you didn't do while ignoring 5 other things you did? Courts don't like that.

Secondary to the above is the fact that you can only apply for those jobs that give you the best chance of employment. If you apply for jobs you are not qualified or able to do, simply in order to fulfill an arbitrary number "or else", a work coach will class that as not actively seeking employment. The Restart provider has then put you in the position of damned if you do and damned if you don't. At that point I'd be telling the Restart provider where to shove their AP, their Restart tax payer theft and/or their MAN. I'd make doubly sure that they didn't get their bonus payment if I got a job through my own efforts while they sat there and did nothing, like a bloated tick.

By the way your claimant commitment is the superior and only document that matters where job search is concerned while you are on Restart. The only document they can use to get you sanctioned for non-compliance with anything they come up with is a MAN, which they have to keep a copy of in case it goes to court. They avoid issuing MANs for precisely this reason. They don't want their "instructions" to be challenged. They prefer to skirt around the law and use "voluntary" with the threat of mandation behind it, as if job seekers fear mandation when they do not. Most of us prefer to be given a MAN so that we know if non-compliance will result in a sanction or not. If it is not on a MAN and you don't agree with it, there's nothing they can do other than put it in a MAN or whinge and moan to your work coach about how you didn't agree with their insanity. It is truly pathetic.

Thought I would put this on this thread as well as it is relevant.

Please not all restart mandations must be written in the action plan.
At the end of the day this is a voluntary activity and can't be mandated.

Restart scheme providers guidance.

Will the activity help them prepare for or move into work?
8.10. All activities your Participant undertakes during their time on the Restart Scheme must help them prepare for or move into work – this applies to activities you agree your Participant will complete on a voluntary basis and those you mandate them to undertake.

8.11. DWP does not provide a prescriptive list of activities. You have the freedom to determine the activity you require your Participant to undertake, provided it has the clear aim of helping them prepare for or move into work.

8.12. The only restriction to this is mandating your Participant to complete work experience, apply for work, attend a job interview or take up work. You may agree these as voluntary activities, but you must not set these as mandatory requirements. Where you have concerns about your Participant’s willingness to attend job interviews, or take up work, you should raise these concerns with the Participant’s Jobcentre Plus work coach via a two-way or three-way conversation, as appropriate.

Absolut's post above is on the money here, putting numbers on amount of applications for jobs encourages applying for jobs not suitable and goes against actually gaining employment.
i always question anyone that mentions application numbers as it makes no sense to me to waste my time box ticking likely failed applications

Does anyone know how long the DWP usually take to respond to SARs? I made a request at the end of August to find out what on earth was going on with my Restart saga and, apart from a text acknowledging my request, I have yet to receive a big DWP envelope. Their website says 30days (didn't clarify whether working days) and the text said a month.

I still don't know whether my ex-provider registered a start and/or tried to get me sanctioned because the Jobcentre didn't mention Restart when I signed on yesterday, although it is mentioned on my Claimant Commitment.

The general rule is that organisations must respond to SARs without delay and within one month of receipt of the request. As per the change to the ICO’s guidance, the general rule is that the start date is the day you receive the request (whether that day is a working day or not).

Thanks, Oneman. Their month is up. I will give them a couple more days just in case it has been delayed by the Royal Mail strikes and then I will get complaining.

Who would have thunk that the DWP would not follow the rules!

just had my work capability assessment appeal. stating we have not changed our decision you will still be able to do some kind of work, might of known who the hell is going to set me on at 65 with osteoporosis and all my other health conditions,

london123 wrote:just had my work capability assessment appeal. stating we have not changed our decision you will still be able to do some kind of work, might of known who the hell is going to set me on at 65 with osteoporosis and all my other health conditions,  

Sorry to hear that London. I presume this was your reconsideration and not your appeal? Take this to a tribunal as the judge is a total different class of person compared to the Decision Makers who just want you off benefits. If you requested an Appeal without requesting a reconsideration the DWP will automatically carry out a reconsideration and if the decision is not changed you do not then need to request an appeal as this is already registered.
as soon as you know you have not scored sufficient points it is essential to contact your local Citizens Advice.
https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Universal-Credit/How-do-I-challenge-a-Universal-Credit-decision

The difference between reconsideration and an appeal?

Reconsideration: - When a Job Centre Plus Decision Maker looks again at the Health Care Professional's report or any new evidence you or your Doctors, specialists etc. provide.

Appeal:- When your case has been reconsidered by the Job Centre Plus Decision Maker and the decision is not changed then it goes to a Tribunal (this is sometimes called a first tier appeal).

Can I ask you how long did it take to get a reply about your work capability assessment and the Reconsideration?
I was literally filling in the WCA when I got this message.

Another one sorry to hear about that London123.

To add to Oneman's excellent advice, assuming you are up for the long wait for a tribunal, you are far more likely to succeed at a tribunal, even more so if you are able to attend in person. Can't remember the exact statistics but at tribunal the odds are very much in your favour, not the DWPs.

Obviously I don't know what advice you had when you submitted your appeal but I always read that a lot of the charities/support organisations for various health problems can be helpful for presenting your evidence in the way most likely to maximise the points needed for your WCA.

Source: Data tables: ESA WCA experimental cohort statistics for initial and repeat ESA assessments, by period of claim start, October 2013 to June 2021

Of the 4.9 million ESA claims with a start date between October 2013 and June 2021:

66% had a completed assessment; WCAs for the remaining claims are either still in progress or were closed by the claimant

400,000 MRs have been registered, following a completed WCA

99.7% of these MRs, which were raised after the WCA, have been completed, with the original decision revised 17% of the time

26% of claimants who raised an MR after the WCA went on to complete an appeal

of the 100,000 appeals completed, 34% had the DWP decision upheld at hearing while the remaining 66% were ruled in favour of the claimant

As a result of High Court decision in July 2020, MR has been discontinued for any claimant who, having been found Fit for Work following a WCA would, if they appealed, be paid ESA pending the outcome of that appeal. Not all claimants qualify, and it applies only to Fit for Work disallowance decisions.

London123, I forgot to suggest you make a SAR to the DWP. When they finally reply* you may get more detailed information about how the Decision Maker reached their decision - potentially very useful if you decide to take the matter further.

*They have still not responded to my SAR within their deadline so expect a wait.

Ignatius wrote:

*They have still not responded to my SAR within their deadline so expect a wait.

You need to raise a complaint and send a copy to the area manager and your MP.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/local-partnership-opportunities-with-jobcentre-plus/jobcentre-plus-district-managers-contacts-for-partnership-opportunities.

The postman has been since I publicly slated the DWP for their tardy response to my SAR.

The DWP have only sent me all of my JSA records. They state that with regards to communications between the DWP and Restart I need to contact Reed in Partnership? Are the DWP trying it on?

References to Restart in the JSA stuff are very limited. No entry has been made in the section for a Restart Start Date. The result of my Initial Meeting with the provider, 12 weeks ago, is DNA. Does anyone know what Submission/Referral Date is in DWP speak? I appear to have 2 of these. The first is the date of my Warm Handover. The second is the day before my last contact with Restart, where they refused to deal with me & told me my JSA claim was closed. Could this referral date be for a sanction doubt? Have they referred me to Restart again but forgot to inform me? This date is 6weeks ago so if it is a sanction doubt surely I would have heard by now? There is no explicit reference to any sanction doubts being raised or mention of a Decision Maker anywhere. Would that be recorded in my JSA notes? I'm still not sure if I've dodged a sanction doubt. It is payday tomorrow so if the cash machine doesn't laugh at me then I will assume I'm ok for now.

Of note to those who like to make sure the DWP follow their own procedures, apparently I was issued with a JSA 534 & 536 and had my warm handover appointment booked 2weeks before they even mentioned Restart to me. That really is quite the whopper. The first I knew of Restart was when I sat down to sign on & they called the provider to do the handover call there and then. The only letter I've ever had was a JSA 598.

DWP & Restart are both data controllers . I tried to get the information from restart and they tried to pull a fast one saying I had to go through DWP to get the info. This I did. It sounds like they are trying to pass the buck onto each other.
The submission date should be the day you had the 3 way conversation to start the scheme.
I think you have definitely past the stage of a sanction and I would just keep your mouth shut about it until your time is up.
If your work roach asks how the restart scheme is going at interview just state "worse than doing nothing" and then laugh.

I think I will remind the DWP they could provide me with information they share with Reed, and will submit a SAR to Reed as well. Restart were telling me they had written to the Jobcentre about me so I want to know what they said. The information I've had today certainly doesn't help with that.

Looking at the info they have sent me and the Big DWP Book of Abbreviations, I can't see any sanction/Decision Maker referral codes to give me sleepless nights. The date they have entered for the Submission/Referral Result Date is not sanction related but is the date the outcome of my first Restart interview was recorded.

Assuming I keep getting paid, I have 9 months to laugh at my Work Coach. Sure I will get used to it.

I would definitely get a sar from reed. If DWP had the info they would have sent you It so I think restart have not sent anything to DWP andthere is no sanction referal. If it's been 6 weeks since their last contact then they have broken their contract with DWP and your clear.
I have 15 days left till my year is up and have had no contact since Jan.