Restart program

Ignatius wrote:

Presumably it would take place at a WSR because that would seem the most efficient way.

Thanks for your reply, ironically i have an WSR on next signing day with provider f2f before it..

i shall find out after provider office visit later in this week

(if anyone has had this 3 way on the scheme please chime in)

Do you think this 3way call is their way of trying to put the frighteners on you?

I'm fairly confident the guidance noted 3way calls are time consuming so should be used sparingly.

Restart Provider Guidance Ch.8 Mandating Participants makes ominous reference to 3way calls being an option where a provider has doubts about your willingness to do activities.

i am sure i read they do these 3 way calls at certain intervals during participants "journey" on the scheme. not frightening at all for me was looking for an insight in what to expect if anyone else had experienced them yet

Sorry, can't help with that as don't know anyone who has been on it longer than a few months. It does seem a bit pointless having a 3way meeting if the "journey" is going smoothly.

Reddit used to have a fairly active DWP board, might be worth a look on there. Reviews of providers on Trust Pilot are often helpful in learning how they do things, not to mention frequently hilarious.

When I was looking for information about Restart after my referral,

mandy tori wrote:i am sure i read they do these 3 way calls at certain intervals during participants "journey" on the scheme. not frightening at all for me was looking for an insight in what to expect if anyone else had experienced them yet

No matter what they've written, a 3 way call after a start date on the scheme can't be mandated unless it's in order to help you get a job. They still seem to think they can combine a WSR with an interview with a provider.

You might be thinking of Chapter 11b where they mention a 3 way "conversation":  

11.13. It may also be appropriate to involve your Participant in the discussion with the Jobcentre Plus work coach, via a three-way conversation. This may be to review their circumstances and discuss any changes to their participation on the Restart Scheme, or to remind them of their requirements to participate where they are not demonstrating this. Further information regarding how to arrange a three-way conversation can be found in Restart Scheme Provider Guidance Chapter 2B – Referral process and initial engagement.

Under a JSA SAPOE Scheme the work coach isn't there to "remind" a claimant that they are required to participate in Restart. It's on their CC and if they don't attend mandated appointments then they will be sanctioned, otherwise why bother to have such a warning on the CC, in black and white, if the work coach then has to re-state it verbally with a provider listening in?

11.14. During these conversations the Jobcentre Plus work coach may feel a formal doubt may exist regarding your Participant’s work-related requirements and they may ask you to notify them of your concerns in writing, for further consideration. This notification is done by the Work-related requirements doubt process.

I'd highly recommend that in such a scenario the JSA claimant push the provider into following the doubt process. That way at least a DM gets to look at it, rather than a work coach, nearly all of whom have no idea what the law actually says.

11.15. It is not a requirement to hold a two-way or three-way conversation prior to raising a work-related requirements doubt and you may notify the Jobcentre Plus work coach via the doubt process without prior contact. However, you are strongly encouraged to make use of these first, as the discussion with the Jobcentre Plus work coach and your Participant may address your concerns and [b]negate the need to raise a formal notification.

i thought i had read it was part of the contract requirements for restart, ill add it to my questions tomorrow as i cannot find it in guidelines and see what they say

(it appears to be only related to a doubt, thx absolut)

mandy tori wrote:i thought i had read it was part of the contract requirements for restart, ill add it to my questions tomorrow as i cannot find it in guidelines and see what they say

(it appears to be only related to a doubt, thx absolut)

I remember seeing it too, but I think it was in the intensive personalised employment support (IPES) provider guidance under "case conferencing"?:

Providers should be aware that as the Case Conference process is new to contracted provision, DWP will monitor its usage throughout the lifetime of the programme. Once DWP has an evidence base, Case Conferences will be reviewed and the way forward discussed with providers.

Case conferencing is an integral part of the Intensive Personalised Employment Support (IPES) provision. The purpose of the Case Conference is to maintain the relationship between the Participant, DWP and you, the Provider, to help ensure the Participant’s needs are being met through the Action Plan. It will also help to ensure that Participants are receiving the intensity of support required to move them closer to, and into, sustained employment, and to ensure that the Participant has a positive and meaningful experience whilst on provision.

IPES has not raised its head yet, certainly not on this board, but if the case conferencing works I can see them widening it out to all programs.

i found the part of guidelines i looked for earlier, wont quote it but it is in https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/restart-provider-guidance/chapter-2b-referral-process-and-initial-engagement-income-based-jobseekers-allowance-claimants-jsa-ib on section 2.66

asked my EA and he admitted to never having been involved in one (not a scheduled event it appears) so i am thinking it may be used when pitting the jcp against provider or vice versa.
the claimant can institute a 3 way but again ill guess it requires a reason for such

in the same document as above, the vocal 3 way referral they do inside jcp has an interesting key word to keep your ears out for...

2.61. Where a potential participant has a MAPPA status the warm handover will be arranged in the normal way and in that meeting the JCP Work Coach will disclose that the potential participant has “Training Restrictions” to indicate this status. No further information will be given at this meeting.

thought i would mention that as imo even rewording it is not something to broadcast in a public environment

mandy tori wrote:in the same document as above, the vocal 3 way referral they do inside jcp has an interesting key word to keep your ears out for...

2.61. Where a potential participant has a MAPPA status the warm handover will be arranged in the normal way and in that meeting the JCP Work Coach will disclose that the potential participant has “Training Restrictions” to indicate this status. No further information will be given at this meeting.

thought i would mention that as imo even rewording it is not something to broadcast in a public environment

Couldn't agree more. What happens if a person subject to a MAPPA asks, in the open plan JCP, what is is meant by "Training Restrictions"?

Just bumping this thread up so it's highlighted.

They have given up with me, it's now 2 min phone calls just ticking the boxes until May. Every time they ring me I tell them to stop flogging this dead horse as i'm a jobless failure who has only worked for 8 months in the last 27 years. I think they have got the message. I keep telling them that I need help with the cost of driving lessons to get a full UK Driving Licence to make me more employable. An employer is not going to take on a 45 year old man with very little or no experience in any kind of work. I did apply for jobs in the past but I have given up now. You know the score, Can't get a job as I don't have the experience, can't get experience as I don't have a job, can't a a job because... and repeat.

fordcortina1970 wrote:I did apply for jobs in the past but I have given up now. You know the score, Can't get a job as I don't have the experience, can't get experience as I don't have a job, can't a a job because... and repeat.

I'd still apply for the jobs if I were you, because they've been known to ask for proof.

Gallazz wrote:I'd still apply for the jobs if I were you, because they've been known to ask for proof.

I still do apply for jobs but in an half-arsed way, You see I just now tick the boxes, go on find a job etc apply for jobs. I don't even get replies from any jobs any more and don't expect any. The last job interview I had was in 1997 and I did not get the job. I have been unemployed longer then someone who has served 15 years for murder. I've been jobless for nearly 27 years.

fordcortina1970 wrote:I still do apply for jobs but in an half-arsed way, You see I just now tick the boxes, go on find a job etc apply for jobs. I don't even get replies from any jobs any more and don't expect any. The last job interview I had was in 1997 and I did not get the job. I have been unemployed longer then someone who has served 15 years for murder. I've been jobless for nearly 27 years.

What happens after Restart? Do they then send you onto the Work and Health Programme where they will also do nothing to help you? How many schemes have you been on in the last 27 years? I bet you've lost count.

"What happens after Restart? Do they then send you onto the Work and Health Programme?"

Where I live Restart and WHP are delivered by the same provider!!! A provider fails you with Restart and then gets another bite at you with WHP. Madness. Or blatant corruption as Oneman often points out.

Absolut wrote: What happens after Restart? Do they then send you onto the Work and Health Programme where they will also do nothing to help you? How many schemes have you been on in the last 27 years? I bet you've lost count.

I've been on lots of things over the years, The first one was New Deal back in 1998/99 that fizzled out after about six months as I was deemed a problem as I lost my bank account due to getting into debt over an overdraft at the time and could not open another one as basic accounts did not exist then. They rang up loads of employers and every one said he needed a bank account so I was stuffed, as was the Driving licence issue was and still is a problem. I've been on a number of informal job clubs over the years, done a number of cat sat on the mat courses, I've been on the Work Programme, and done the Health and work programme just before covid it was nearly finished before lockdown anyway and now this Restart Scheme which like every scheme i've been on just fizzies out as I too much of a problem. Even when I go into the JC i'm only in there for less then 5 mins, it's a quick look at my handwritten jobsearch and then out the door until the next two weeks.

oneman wrote:Archangle. Have a look at the thread titled " Restart employability Diagnostic Assessment and Action Plans. "
Sorry can't do links from my tablet.
Have a look through the FOI links provided there regarding signing documents and also take a look at chapter 8 mandating. In the Restart providers guidance. 8.53 will cover what you need to know.

Regarding loopholes. The work programme has changed now and is now Restart also I have gone from JSA to UC so things are completely different now and I have had to find new loopholes. Like the thread above.
The facts are that DWP state you will not be mandated or sanctioned for
not signing paper or electronic documents.
Restart providers guidance chap 8.53 says they must record all mandations in the action plan.
The action plan needs to be signed to be lawful.
If you don't have a signed action plan then they can't force you to do anything and you will not be sanctioned.
It is not your fault that their rules and regulations contradict each other but it is a great loophole for us to use.

for some reason I haven't read this thread before.
however what is quoted above is 100% correct from my experience (restart EA has confirmed it verbally) on restart on jsa ib.
i have asked to be mandated and they will not entertain me (i would post a redacted version of they did)

every single face to face has an action plan at some point mentioned if i will sign it, im surprised they haven't offered bribes yet

do not sign provider paperwork ever!

I was sent and referred by my local job centre to this programme last month.
Have to say it's the most waste of tax payers money and government funding the funny thing is they try all sorts getting me apply for their job roles "Shite jobs like Amazon/JD Sports warehousing that result you standing on your feet for days * Done this type of role 8 years ago never again* I was basically getting abused by the manager" telling every god dam hour to try harder and hit the god dam targets*

Told my advisor straight face listen I will apply for jobs by my own and show you the emails but not using your restart website or your referral links knowning you c**ts will take a fat bonus from the government.

I know how these scumbags operate in and out how they pray on the easy targets.
I actually think they had enough of me already.
My personal Advisor just doesn't give up keep on saying apply for this and that here the link/call up here the phone/use your email now send cv next
I make most stupid excuses like Job location to far isn't ideal, takes to long on transport required me using 2 trains and my childcare cost etc etc and my pet dogs, sick aunt and winding her down like a big baby she just gives up at the end.

Last week at my face to face meeting was asked about what jobs are you looking I said seen a job advertised online looking for pest control killing and destroying "Cockroaches"
My advisor next mentioned could please stop wasting my time and messing about with me I know what you mean by saying that.
My response this job is legit they are offering me 24 hours Monday-Friday local area will be putting my cv/application forward this week.
Next advisor said from now on our appointments will be telephone calls only must had felt threatened or time wasting or knowing they cannot get anything out of me im not the type of person that will follow orders and bend down to their demands.
Who knows why all my appointments switched to telephone calls only I didn't bother to ask for the exact reason.

I really cannot understand the concept and the mindset of some people they really must get a kick or a ego boost picking on people in desperate needs and help soon or later in life they will be on the receiving end of the stick facing the same medicine.
karma will strike back at these people in the future.

My advisor still asking for my CV she want it by next week definitely going to edit that saying been to prison for all sorts including murder these restart place have a policy not to ask any claimants any criminal background history going to hold out time by doing this just maybe my personal advisor will be afraid of me coming back in again.
Im actually trying my hardest not to see these people again knowing.
I still have 11 months on the restart programme of toying around with them going to be fun and games for me.

I just love wasting their time and trolling these people they do deserve it at the end of the day.

This is how I feel about this Restart Crap.

Absolut wrote:

oneman wrote:It makes you wonder why they did not just come to some sort of agreement with DWP and mandate everthing. They look to be trying to make life difficult for themselves and not make a profit.
Then again they might not have anticipated that people are not wanting to take part in their amazing programme or getting a job through them.
I just don't understand it.

If the situation was reversed and we needed consent from them but they wouldn't give it, they'd be telling us to "suck it up".

They can't mandate (which they do, to the first meeting) and also expect consent to get future earnings data. They don't get their bonus payments if they don't get to know when a claimant earns £1k, £2k and finally £3952. Earnings data is their only way to claim 70% of the contract money. They automatically get to know this data as long as there is a live benefit claim, but if there is no claim, they don't get to know, hence the consent form inserted into the induction pack (to cover full time work and/or no claim).

This is what the DWP claims about RTI and JSA:

Finally, turning to your question about linking Jobseekers’ Allowance (JSA) claimant data to HMRC Real Time Information (RTI) data, it might be helpful if I explain that although initially Restart Scheme referrals did not include claimants on legacy benefits such as JSA, HMRC RTI feed is no longer specific to Universal Credit (UC). To facilitate any Restart Scheme referrals from claimants on legacy benefits the Labour Market System is used, and once a claimant is accepted on to the Restart Scheme an interest is set in the Provider Referral and Payments (PRaP) system. PRaP interfaces with DWP systems to ensure referrals and payments to providers are processed automatically and securely.

Please note they've written "referrals from claimants on legacy benefits" when it should be "referrals for claimants on legacy benefits". There is no reason for a legacy benefit claimant to self-refer themselves onto a mandatory scheme.

The DWP is making out here that HMRC's RTI earnings data is now linked to JSA claims. I would be interested to know if JSA claimants, who work part time and earn less than JSA, no longer have to submit payslips to the DWP as we had to do from 2013 to 2019. Even if all benefits were now linked to RTI, I see no reason why it would continue once a claim was closed.

Picking this thread up i would love to know the answer to this does JSA legacy claims feed your earning back to your restart provider PRaP some reason my advisor at the restart keeps on trying to selling universal credit to me saying how good the system is he sounded pissed off told him im staying with JSA also since starting my new part time job kept everything under closed doors not telling him anything seems kind of desperate wanting to know how much wages im earning each month seems like he couldn't get anything because not on universal credit yet.

Yes i still have to provide my wage slip every month on JSA only 7 hour weekly shift only getting about 22£ weekly in benefits claim remained open.

The guidance (17.16) and nao report say they're paid up to 70% automatically on job outcomes from HMRC data and can view the information in PRaP (they have to submit a claim if it's self-employment).

There's a few different suggestions on why they're hell-bent on getting your employer details out of you.
- They get a bonus for meeting KPIs.
- They have to meet KPIs to keep their job.
- It looks better in contract negotiations with the DWP if they can claim they found jobs.
- To report any false claims back to the DWP if you're working different hours/different contract etc.

Removing consent should stop any of that bullshit.

There are differences in other sections of the guidance depending on whether you're on UC or JSA. Being on UC would probably give him more leverage over you. I think I read something, but can't recall. Maybe he just thinks he can scare you with the journal (not scary). His reaction tells you enough though.

Leaf wrote:The guidance (17.16) and nao report say they're paid up to 70% automatically on job outcomes from HMRC data and can view the information in PRaP (they have to submit a claim if it's self-employment).

There's a few different suggestions on why they're hell-bent on getting your employer details out of you.
- They get a bonus for meeting KPIs.
- They have to meet KPIs to keep their job.
- It looks better in contract negotiations with the DWP if they can claim they found jobs.
- To report any false claims back to the DWP if you're working different hours/different contract etc.

Removing consent should stop any of that bullshit.

There are differences in other sections of the guidance depending on whether you're on UC or JSA. Being on UC would probably give him more leverage over you. I think I read something, but can't recall. Maybe he just thinks he can scare you with the journal (not scary). His reaction tells you enough though.

Thanks already removed my consent to share this bastard advisor is one nasty work he definitely high on his horse after his payment payout also something doesn't add up he said to me if you don't provide your employer details we would obtain my monthly earnings information from the HMRC even has the cheek ask me to do more hours more hours means quicker payment for the provider.


Even my work coach doesn't school me every fortnight about moving to universal credit she only asked twice saying I'm better off on it and respected my decision this advisor would constantly setup sessions like courses JSA to UC information course made up shit and ask every fortnight you moved to universal credit yet.

Yes definitely being on universal credit they can bend you backwards getting you engaged fully with the programme and threaten you if you don't follow your work commitments and your monthly earns you have to report back to your journal they cannot do this on JSA.

It's an odd one. We know they don't share information. Restart has no access to the journal.

Work commitments basically amount to 'apply for work'. The roaches don't seem to care as long as you enter 1-3 jobs you applied for each week. Most of them don't even bother to read the journal. Constantly telling them, "I wrote that in the journal". They can't even force you to use it to show proof of work search.

The number of sanctions on restart is really low. Most sanctions overall are for missed appointments. They like to throw that word around because it works. People are scared of it.