Warm Handover (Restart Scheme)

What is the point in this phone call, if the wc has the power to send us on to restart why don't they stop playing games and do it....

I will not be telling a stranger who I have never met before my address down the telephone at a jobcentre.

The Catwoman wrote:What is the point in this phone call, if the wc has the power to send us on to restart why don't they stop playing games and do it....

My sentiments exactly #Catwoman.
You have to wonder what the rest of the 'Retread' scheme will be like? If this is the first impression you get of the scheme 🤨...
Especially when the Roach's say how over worked they are, yet able to waste 30x mins plus facilitating a Lukewarm handover call with their customers...

the only time on offer during the call for me which i begrudgingly agreed to was not the same date as the one on my mailed out letter received the very next day, later that day the provider sent an email with the header "Restart Meeting Rebooking" with an entirely different date!

hence i have had 3 dates for initial interview. that seems to be a rather valid reason to not attend any of them as per their own guidelines. i shall see what they do when their rebooking time is ignored (they have sent an sms about it haha)

Its not a good start with this provider ... Of different start dates, best to keep all record's and communications #Mandy-tori.
I was sent on one course by the JCP , and arrived on time and at the address on the letter. Only to be told it wasn't at that address, and was sent to the correct site....

On a side️track here, what is the billing arrangements for these Threesome calls? Is it to the provider , or does the JCP pay for these phone calls? Or Heaven forbid the claimants phone is debited for this interaction...

the person on the sms message is not the same person as on the 3 way call unless they have changed sex and name from last week

was told on the call i would be meeting them on appointment date..

(my username is a play on words but actually i am male, should point that out)

so i have 2 initial names for my 3 initial contact meeting dates thus far, utter incompetency on everything they have done.
anyone wanna bet i get a FTA before weekend? hopefully i will :-)

Pintel wrote:On a side️track here, what is the billing arrangements for these Threesome calls? Is it to the provider , or does the JCP pay for these phone calls? Or  Heaven forbid the claimants phone is debited for this interaction...

the wc calls the provider, then they call the jobseeker, and announce when we have joined the call when they merge all 3 parties

ill add that they are using something like microsoft teams and adding claimant into the session, would have been nice to grab the number if they had me ring in to them but sadly they didn't

As a side note I will point out here that there is no need for the warm handover call:

2.30. Exceptional circumstances may mean that a Warm Handover conversation does not happen.

2.31. In such an instance you will receive a PRaP referral, but you will not have a record already detailing a Warm Handover call, and you won’t have had the opportunity to receive the appropriate Participant information. Not having a Warm Handover is not a reason to reject a referral. You will be required to utilise the initial engagement activity period to discuss the Restart Scheme with your Potential Participant, identify any support needs and arrange the time, date and location for the initial Face to Face meeting, using the appropriate methods available. Continue actions on initial engagement activity as from paragraph 2.20.

2.32. The term “Cold Handover” or “Cold Referral” maybe used in reference to referrals to the Restart Scheme where no warm handover has occurred.

Failure to participate or comply must be considered when a claimant:

fails to attend a mandatory meeting with a programme or provider
does not complete a specific work-related activity set by a programme or provider
does not participate in a mandatory meeting with a provider or work coach

Regarding costs:

The booking costs associated with Warm Handover calls rest with JCP and the booking tool with the Provider.  In the event of participant no-show after a warm handover is booked, JCP would request reasons for non-attendance and rebook if required. A PRaP referral would not be made in this instance.  

So far they've not re-booked the call. I told our local JCP I want an official letter from Maximus with their official phone number on it and then I will ring them. I'm still waiting.  

Absolut wrote:As a side note I will point out here that there is no need for the warm handover call:
 

I second that #Absolut, while I may be preaching to the choir here....
But it does seem to me like a Dog chasing it's own tail'... It looks like the dog is getting somewhere, yet a futile activity . As you said Absolut, a customer can be enrolled without the need for a Lukewarm handover....So why, unless the Roach is having 30x min break &...

Now I received a 'mandatory' letter from the Roach about the 'threesome' call . Everything was in order. Yet on this appointment date **/**/2022, the 'Spit-roast' call didn't take place 🤨. Now my point is the Roach , just told me that the appointment had been moved to the new date. No letter ,no formal declaration to me. So I was wondering once a 'mandation' has been given, can they change the dates of the appointment. Or does it require a new 'mandation' to be legally binding . I would ask the Roach , but not sure I would get a truthful answer?

Do they need a new mandation notice? No. It's not legal for them to mandate that 3 way call to begin with. What is legal is for them to follow the SAPOE Regulations and until they do they are simply engaging in harassment. The DWP has no legal right to impose conference calls on anyone and certainly not during a WSR in a job centre. It's not only unreasonable, it's unhinged. It's their referral, not yours. If they want to mandate you onto Restart demand a copy of the Regulation 5 notice that has the start date on it. The provider cannot speak to you until after you have been given a Regulation 5 notice with a start date on it as per the SAPOE Regulations. Once you have a start date, in writing, then the provider can write to you to ask you to arrange a first meeting with them. They are attempting to skip the SAPOE Regulations. Don't let them.

If your job centre is quoting the SAPOE Regulations as the basis of the mandation to the call from when did Restart start for you? No sanction can be imposed under SAPOE Regs until after you have a start date for the scheme in writing. Make them do it. Demand a Regulation 5 notice. I did. I'm still waiting for it.

Roach said I will have phone call with provider next week at jobcentre. I said I'm not giving personal info over the phone. Roach said call is just to tell more about the course. I don't believe him. I said why can't you just refer me to provider. Told must have the phone call. That's the way they have to do it.!!!
Given next Appt letter JSA594, which doesn't mention phone call. Says "you will talk with coach about restart. You’ll receive another letter which explains more about this."
Also says, If you do not attend or take part in this meeting and don't have good reason, your jsa will be stopped.
Can they say I did not take part in meeting if I refuse to give personal details over the phone.
Was given a separate generic print out about provider which says Your journey into employment 1. We'll have a joint call to tell about scheme, then organise time to meet restart advisor. No date on it.
Is this info just for self referral?

Leave your mobile at home

Found it interesting that they didn't mention phone call with provider on work search review meeting next appt letter JSA594.

Topaz wrote:Roach said I will have phone call with provider next week at jobcentre. I said I'm not giving personal info over the phone. Roach said call is just to tell more about the course. I don't believe him. I said why can't you just refer me to provider. Told must have the phone call. That's the way they have to do it.!!!
Given next Appt letter JSA594, which doesn't mention phone call. Says "you will talk with coach about restart. You’ll receive another letter which explains more about this."
Also says, If you do not attend or take part in this meeting and don't have good reason, your jsa will be stopped.
Can they say I did not take part in meeting if I refuse to give personal details over the phone.
Was given  a separate generic print out about provider which says Your journey into employment 1. We'll have a joint call to tell about scheme, then organise time to meet restart advisor. No date on it.
Is this info just for self referral?

It might be best to wait until that other letter arrives to see what it says. Sounds like it might be a Regulation 5 notice with a start date on it.

I did not take my mobile phone to the joke centre for the warm handover call. I left it at home. It is not for you to provide equipment for the DWP. If they want you to give out personal and private information in the job centre where other claimants can hear it then they must arrange for it to be done in a private room, away from other claimants, using their own equipment. JSA claimants are not 5 years old. If they can't ring the provider to make an appointment with the provider after receiving the correct notice then one wonders if they are capable of being on the scheme, never mind get a job through it.

The reason for all that information (NI, DOB, address etc), which should be on the referral the DWP has allegedly already sent, has been explained away to claimants as the provider "checking the claimant's identity". It sounds plausible, but in fact it's absurd when the roach knows damn well it's the right claimant. It does not seem to enter joke centre staff's thick skulls that those questions were asked when all 3 people were in different locations! The claimant's identity has already been checked before the roach rings the provider. Does the provider not trust the roach has the right person?  

If you do receive an official Regulation 5 notice that means you are mandated onto Restart from the date indicated in the notice . You must take it seriously. Do not ignore it. Any correspondence after that should be from the provider only. There is no need for the DWP to be involved once you are on Restart. Usually, the Regulation 5 notice asks you to contact the provider to arrange an initial meeting to take place within 15 days of the start date. I see no reason for the provider to ring any JSA claimant while they are in the joke centre. Joke centre staff mindlessly follow what is put in front of them. They are not paid to think or to have anything more than mush between their ears.

As I keep pointing out a work search review appointment in a job centre and a telephone call from a provider are 2 separate things where a JSA sanction is concerned. There is no provision in any legislation for the DWP to impose a conference call on claimants with a provider when there is no pandemic. There is no provision in any legislation for a provider to ring a claimant before that claimant is mandated onto a SAPOE scheme via the correct process as outlined in the SAPOE Regulations.

At some point joke centre staff are going to have to admit that Restart for JSA claimants is voluntary at the point of referral. As long as they can get away with not admitting it, they will do so.

[quote="Absolut"]

Topaz wrote:🦓

. If they want you to give out personal and private information in the job centre where other claimants can hear it then they must arrange for it to be done in a private room, away from other claimants, using their own equipment. JSA claimants are not 5 years old. If they can't ring the provider to make an appointment with the provider after receiving the correct notice then one wonders if they are capable of being on the scheme, never mind get a job through it.

.

Your quite right #Absolut, about a 'private room' if they(JCP ) want a customer/ claimant to give out private information . Isn't this covered by the Duty of Care/GDPR(data protection) regulations .

I feel a 'polite' I don't wish to disclose this personal information over the phone . As you have participated in the call...
Also been wondering if the Roach , decides to answer any questions for you in a ventriloquist dummy way🤭...

I already feel stressed about this restart rubbish and I haven't been sent on it yet. It's crazy how dwp can effect people's emotions in so many different ways .

The Catwoman wrote:I already feel stressed about this restart rubbish and I haven't been sent on it yet. It's crazy how dwp can effect people's emotions in so many different ways .

Even if you are sent on it at least you are armed with a lot of information about what they can and can't get away with.   I'm trying to de-stress JSA claimants on here by showing the voluntary nature of Restart. We are actually in a much better position than UC claimants, who are pre-mandated into the stupid and unnecessary warm handover call, but in other ways we are in a worse position than them. Shoving JSA into SAPOE has created a 2 tier Restart scheme - one where a sanction can be lifted for co-operating and another where co-operation results in no return of the food bowl.

At all times JSA claimants can decide not to question what the joke centre staff are doing and simply go along with it. Once on Restart all meetings and activities are voluntary unless it's on a JSA MAN. The providers may or may not go for the same sort of issuing of JSA MANs they had to undertake in order to run the Work Programme. Some providers might be nice and some might be bullies. On the WP I got exactly the right sort of fake roach I needed to learn how to say NO to people like her (authoritarian).

Joke centre staff are not entirely to blame for what has happened. Whoever it was who copy/pasted UC Restart provider procedures over to JSA did not do so with the SAPOE Regs in mind. They missed the "send a Reg 5 notice" step that should occur after the provider has accepted the referral from the joke centre and before the provider contacts the claimant to arrange the initial meeting. It is the provider that is expected to issue the Reg 5 notice, not the DWP, with information on it about how the claimant is to attend the first meeting. When I was referred to the Work Programme it was the provider who sent the notice that I was on Restart (from the date on the notice) instructing me to arrange to see them within 15 days of the date on the notice. Every meeting from then on was on a JSA MAN.

Some JCP offices are going to cover over their error in mandating warm handover calls without either them or the provider giving the claimant a Reg 5 notice beforehand by issuing Reg 5 notices after the fact, with the referral date on them.  Any JCP office claiming that they were unaware of the need for that notice to be given to the claimant within 2 days of the referral is telling porkies. According to this sort of messing about with the regulations, I've been on Restart for nearly a month now and I still don't have the Reg 5 notice with the "referral" date (start date) on it. Funny that.

Issues around notification were settled in court, yet it seems joke centre staff didn't get the memo.

Pintel wrote:Your quite right #Absolut, about a 'private room' if they(JCP ) want a customer/ claimant to give out private information . Isn't this covered by the Duty of Care/GDPR(data protection) regulations .

The duty of care is always yours first. To protect it from identity thieves. The idea that ID thieves don't hang around job centres shows how dumb roaches are. Do you need to give the provider personal and private information in order to be able to access the scheme? No. The DWP can give them info before hand. Next question. Is it so the provider can make sure you are who you say you are? The roach has already ID'd you (or should have) and aren't they better at doing that than the idiot provider they've hired?

Being threatened with a sanction for refusing to give out your private and personal information over the phone, in a public space, when it is not a legal requirement for you to do that in order to be referred onto Restart by the DWP is harassment under the Harassment Act 1997.  

I feel a 'polite' I don't wish to disclose this personal information over the phone . As you have participated in the call...Also been wondering if the Roach , decides to answer any questions for you in a ventriloquist dummy way🤭...

I know what I'd be saying to the provider and the roach   I'd be asking them where my Regulation 5 notice is. I'd be asking them why the provider isn't sending me a JSA MAN if I'm already on the scheme in order to mandate the initial meeting. When was I first put on the scheme for the provider to be able to speak to me? What was the date they accepted the DWP's referral? I'd be asking the roach why he/she needs to listen in when I'm perfectly capable of contacting the provider after being given a Reg 5 notice.

If the roach decides to answer questions and give out your NI and personal details over the phone for other claimants to hear, that is an absolute breach of your rights under the GDPR.  If you do decide to take the call make sure to record it. However, as mandi tori said, when the roach speaks to the provider they mute their side of the conversation. They don't put ear muffs over other claimant's ears though do they?

Absolut wrote:[
If the roach decides to answer questions and give out your NI and personal details over the phone for other claimants to hear, that is an absolute breach of your rights under the GDPR.  If you do decide to take the call make sure to record it. However, as mandi tori said, when the roach speaks to the provider they mute their side of the conversation. They don't put ear muffs over other claimant's ears though do they?

First point #Absolut, how many times do the JCP believe them that GDPR don't apply to them🤪. If a Roach decides to start a Ventriloquist Act over the phone ! Secondly, ' Muting' parts of the conversation. Surely there is something wrong about doing this (equalities?). So much for the 3way call, can the Claimant decide to 'mute' the Roach's telephone line out??? 🤫.


I could see a ' Norman Collier' act coming on...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mzx3wNNuyB8

Well credit where credit is due .
It seems the DWP does at least 'encrypt' there telephone conversations...

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/restart_threeway_calls?nocache=incoming-2078413#incoming-2078413

Pintel wrote:I was waiting for the Roach today on the 'Loafers️ Sofa' in the Dole. And there was some chap, having the Threesome call. So I made some notes 🤫, you got to open plan office's. #Dislaimer here this may not be the same for all just what I overhear, and took no personal information just questions asked:
* Name
* DOB
* Address/Post code
* NI Number
* Email address
* Phone number
* Last employer
*Work experience
* Type of job sector's
* Required basic skills
* Etc etc etc

While I didn't hear all the call as escorted to the roach's perch. But chap wasn't there when I return so it lasted approx 30 mins. Why the JCP couldn't email all of this from their records. Keeps someone in a job.

Just thought it might help to know what is on the Provider's script...

Now compare what I overheard on the Loafers sofa. To the official guidance .

"Chapter 2 B Referral Process and Initial Engagement (dated 29/04/22).
Section 2:11:
"Information such Potential Participants address or National Insurance number etc are not to be asked for at the warm handover, as this information is included in the subsequent Provider Referral and Payment System (PRaP) referral."

Must not of read the memo...


"2.11. The Warm Handover meeting will enable you to:

Actively promote the benefits of the Restart Scheme
reassure the Potential Participant and provide practical information as to travel, meeting locations, etc.
gather sufficient personal information to arrange the Initial Face to Face Meeting, agreeing a date, time and location; or make alternative arrangements should Face to Face meetings not be possible.
"

My question is does anyone know what "sufficient personal information to arrange the Initial Face to Face Meeting", is That isn't covered by the Provider Referral and Payment system (PRaP) .



https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/restart-provider-guidance/chapter-2b-referral-process-and-initial-engagement-income-based-jobseekers-allowance-claimants-jsa-ib

My question is does anyone know what "sufficient personal information to arrange the Initial Face to Face Meeting", is?

It could be to get the claimant's consent to attend the initial face to face, or it could be to ensure the claimant does not have a job or the offer of a job.

Absolut wrote:

My question is does anyone know what "sufficient personal information to arrange the Initial Face to Face Meeting", is?

It could be to get the claimant's consent to attend the initial face to face, or it could be to ensure the claimant does not have a job or the offer of a job.

 ? Wouldn't the JCP give the Provider this information, or mandate the claimant for the initial meeting? I am not saying your wrong #Absolut.
Just the more I find out about the Lukewarm handover , the more I think it's a waste of time .

Absolut, how can someone be on restart without a start date. Did you have a cold handover?