Restart program

Already done 4 years on the work programme. The last time was a two year stretch but did get certificates to confirm that I'm now 100% qualified to do everything needed to look for work. It will be interesting to see what they say about that when I start tomorrow. (Name and number only) let the games begin.

Ask the moron club this Oneman.

What did you learn on your WP sentance.
That you didn't before? Which employers actually put any real value on them certificates , who and why? Love to hear their sales pitch on that.

I note you said 4 years on WP,  did they give you 2 extra for good behaviour or was it you could not contain yourself due to all the secrets you learned of "how to get into work quicker and remain in it for longer. "Last time I studied economics I didn't think such a route existed.

Joking aside you have my genuine sympathy if you are not enjoying this WP experience or feel nothing is being gained to your advantage. Life is short and these clowns are hell bent on wasting others at great cost.

Had 2x 6 weeks then a 6 month. Another 1 year with Avanta after that. Then another 2 years with them, to finish off. This will be my 5th year. Could have done my Architects diploma in that time.
I see G4s are running some of these programmes again the same people that stole £300,000 from the DWP and staff went to jail!!!
Unbelievable!

It's disgusting their wasting your time Oneman. It really is. I'd drop a line to your MP with links to this forum as they may find it to be highly informative not a hope I feel.

The fact that they are actually hindering my work search by calling me into their office and costing the DWP travel money will be a good conversation in avoiding using their computers, along with the not using their cookies issue.
Actually what is the policy on using their computers?

Well that was painless. Went into the office and sat with my advisor. I was given a fire register to sign. This I refused to sign and showed them the legislation that says I do not have to complete or sign anything. He then signed it for me.
He then developed a nervous tick in his head and face and it continued to get worse. It was as if someone had poured water on a robot and it was about to break down. He said he was going to ask me questions for my diagnostic assessment. again I said I do not have to complete or sign anything. I then told him my past history with the work programme (all very platonic)and suddenly the manager butted in saying he had overheard my conversation and that I was obviously very frustrated with the past experience on the programme and there would be no need to continue and I could leave. I had a phone appointment with my work roach after and he asked how it went. I said it went very well. Not sure what the final out come will be but at the moment I'm happy.
The DWP have a contract with reed who then contract it out to a firm called people plus. This is who I was dealing with today.

Tip of the cap to you #Oneman . I'm glad you didn't need to take a 'Selfie' of yourself holding the days newspaper in front of the building . Well they can see that payment outcome ...


One thing I am getting confused with the outsourcing of contracts: DWP Reed in Partnership People Plus (A4e and Advanta) . Its starting to look like the 'Horse meat scandal'... With manipulation of paperwork ...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_horse_meat_scandal

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PeoplePlus
peopleplus.co.uk

"In 2011, Staffline Group acquired EOS, a small work programme provider in the West Midlands. This was followed in 2014 with the acquisition of Avanta, one of the largest prime work programme providers in the UK, and finally in 2015 the purchase of another prime provider A4e.In 2015 the 3 companies were merged to form PeoplePlus."

That is very interesting Pintel. Thanks.
My work roach sent me a journal message later today saying that "I have been informed that whilst you have attended your appointment, you refused to answer any questions on order for them to carry out their initial diagnostic meeting with you."
"Whilst you did attend today, you failed to participate and if a second attempt is not attended People Plus can follow their mandation process."

The little fuckers!!!
I did not refuse to answer anything. I just showed them the legislation stating that I do not need to complete or sign any documents and was asked to leave.

Ok.I think I have got this one sussed out.
People plus have contacted my work roach and claimed that I did not participate in the diagnostic assessment and if I do not complete it they will mandate me to do it.
In reality I would not answer the questions on the diagnostic assessment as it is a html document on there computer. Html documents are classed as electronic documents and we already know from the previous foi letter from the DWP , on here that completing or signing said documents is voluntary.
Also according to DWP legislation 8.52 chapter 8. People plus must record the mandatory activity in the action plan that is also voluntary and does not need to be completed or signed.
Does this sound right?

oneman wrote:That is very interesting Pintel. Thanks.
My work roach sent me a journal message later today saying that "I have been informed that whilst you have attended your appointment, you refused to answer any questions on order for them to carry out their initial diagnostic meeting with you."
"Whilst you did attend today, you failed to participate and if a second attempt is not attended People Plus can follow their mandation process."

The little fuckers!!!
I did not refuse to answer anything. I just showed them the legislation stating that I do not need to complete or sign any documents and was asked to leave.

The journal message sent to you, seems they are just repeating themselves? "And if a second attempt is not attended People Plus can follow their mandation process. So as i understand it you just need to attend again with the same foi's...

Does anyone know the JCP definition of 'Participate". As i understand you participated with the People+ groupJust didn't want to sign any voluntary documents.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/participate

DWP said I did take part by attending but I did not participate in the diagnostic test. That we know is not mandatory. It will be down to the tribunal judge to interpret the meaning of partisipate.
Also it looks like the whole thing has started all over again. Same start letters with new appointment date and the same emails and booklet sent out as if nothing had happened.
My very first appointment was mutually rearranged at a later date due to it clashing with another appointment I had but my work coach has said that first appointment is a failure to attend and the next appointment will be my third when in fact it is only my second. What a obnoxious little disease he is.
I

One man, be sure to put in a expenses form to joke shop. If they haven't offered that 'tailored specific help' to you then, complain like hell.

They will probably dish out their usual bullshit of, we only have a certain amount of money allocated. If so, contact your MP and explain in full your situation and how you are being treated. Take the MP through the customer journey of you having to attend just like thousands of others talking about nothing. These planks only have a '''job' because of peoples unfortunate unemployed status ...nothing else. Roach shop arent capable of finding work for anyone outside of zero hour/temp low paid contract work .

Oneman I am guessing you are aware of this but just in case you are not and a  tip for others. Document absolutely everything between you and any roach. Post anything that puts them in a bad light to your journal .Just make sure its 100% factual and take a snap shot of the journal entry for your records.

These 'people' don't give a flying crap about anyone's circumstances and their brief is to get as many of us into ANY crappy low paid 'job'. They hate capitalist's, that's for them and not the likes of us.


Now this! is outrageous and a full blown complaint should be filed.

Went into the office and sat with my advisor. I was given a fire register to sign. This I refused to sign and showed them the legislation that says I do not have to complete or sign anything. He then signed it for me.

If they signed for you, without your consent for something like a fire register under health and safety id say their on very dodgy ground. No one can sign for you on your behalf for something like that. I've never know it.

As to see their companies liability insurance. And i bet they haven't got insurance. Not many people question this. I'd also make a call to your local fire department asking them for their opinion on that game. They, the provider will be wishing they hadn't signed for you.

Maladministration is not defined by statute but examples are:
failure to follow policy or procedure.
failure to provide information.
failure to take into account relevant considerations when making a decision.
allowing irrelevant considerations to influence a decision.


As far as I am aware One man the signing of any documents being mandatory ate the claimant commitment ? If you have a letter which states your documents being asked to sign is optional keep a copy. Paste that into your journal and mark it for the attention of roach shop manager asking what part of voluntary dont they understand ?

Before asking people to sign a fire register etc they should be given a full tour of the building, designated points of exit and where to meet up outside of any building .

Pintel asks about their definition of 'participate' no doubt will be ''HAS TO ATTEND DESTINATION X TO GET X BENEFIT OR ELSE   .

I think my work roach actually thinks this is all some sort of misunderstanding and I actually want to go along with the work programme so he is giving me another chance to start again.

There is a misunderstanding as you say One man. You just need to make it crystal clear to the planks.

The restart office is just one room in a business centre. They pointed out fire exits on the way to the office. Then they signed the register. Other breaches of their code of conduct/DWP contract or organisation bird as they call it, are:-
They did at no point ask if I would do the task voluntarily or try and persuade me to participate using positive attitude and reasoning to the benefits of the task. They also fails to ask me about travelling expenses so that is three breaches of contract. I do record everything but it failed to record on the first meeting. This I'm gutted about. In the next meeting in going to just ask why they failed to ask me these three things at the first meeting and have that recorded instead. Think that will still work.

No worries oneman. Stay on top of these clowns. Recording situation also happened to me. I am paranoid now so test it out side roach shop. Works a treat when they call me landline on speaker phone. Can't trust these people at all.

There are some FOI requests online about travel expenses reclaiming etc. Print one off and use it or download to phone, providing your not recording them .

I don't think they have to advise you on the expenses as I had been going back and forth like some moron for 3 months before the piss take dawned on me. Now we've had such a generous budget no doubt their be insisting people go chat to them about nothing more than ever now.

If you drive, charge by the mile and reclaim parking. They can refuse, but at the same time, has to be reasonable; their refusal that is. My joke shop had people going in and out of there almost daily for weeks, before covid-19. Had some interesting conversations in the coffee bar

Good luck, update us when you can.

I think that the JCP Work Roach , and the People+ staff, need to go on a course themselves with there counting of appointments you attended .

To side️ track the thread for a minute. I read in the 27/10/21 Budget. The creation of a 'Adult Math Coaching' scheme, to the tune of £560 Million ...
"Improving 1/2 million adult numeracy". While milking the cash, to the tune of £1,120 a time. Unless I got my math wrong. £560,000,000 / 500,000 = £1,120 a participant. More money down the training drain  .



https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/autumn-budget-2021-predictions-announcements-25283047

https://feweek.co.uk/spending-review-560m-for-new-multiply-adult-numeracy-scheme-confirmed/

Correct Pintel and as you say, yet more millions down the drain dressed up as: Look tax payers, we are helping the poor unemployed to do basic maths, which will launch them on a prosperous career of AI robotics programming. They are deluded Pintel and as someone said to me recently, "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" and I am an old dog. They should concentrate on the younger generation totally, and stop wasting millions of tax payers money on courses for 50 plus age group who 9/10 employers wouldn't touch with a bargepole. I use to work in a tech sector for 28 years and they won't hire me or pay me a decent rate again so let them all spin.

5 years and I will be retired...if I make it. Another delusion of theirs to keep them fed at the top is, work until you drop we're all living longer don't cha know.

They can run as many of these cat sat on mat courses etc but effectively the result will be the same .A certificate that will be worth toilet paper after a few years and after doing that sentance, end up in pound stretcher if they still use tills in 2 years time.

I hear what you're saying #Jobber, of what these 'cat sat on the mat' courses . And yet the Soft Skills Circus, carries on and on... Just gets a new name ever few years: New Deal, Work Program, Restart etc etc. Yet the song remains the same. Still they always seem to find plenty of money to waste ️ on these schemes. Even if they don't produce any results.

True Pintel the song does remain the same and leaves them to ramble on; as someone once said .

This will only ever change if the moron club at the asylum remove the chains that are frustratingly and effectively choking people.

For people aged 50 plus a logical idea would be a UBI  but the Tories shiver at that idea while the economy is filled with huge amount of dead end, temporary, low paid jobs. Far easier to appease the tax payer for their job creation failures with. Let's cut benefits, let's make them work for nothing, let's! make them eat cake, force them into inappropriate training programs, give millions to program providers that consistently fail to deliver on behalf of the tax payer and pay them handsomely again for their "efforts".  The jobsworths out there are either too thick or deluded to see it, despite,  its been going on for 20 + years.

What we don't need is anymore amazon type box packing places. The UK is full of warehouse/coffee shops and that, should be a clue as to why Bodgers idea of high pay, highly skilled work for everyone is a pipe dream.

Whole chapter on expenses jobberpw.

Restart Scheme provider guidance
Chapter 6
General Expenses Requirements
6.02. You are required to actively promote the access to funding for travel, childcare and other expenses to your Participants throughout their time on the Restart Scheme, and ensure that they are no worse off.

6.03. You must make your Participant aware of any out of pocket expenses that they can claim from you for their initial meeting, and that they are offered access to, and reimbursement of any appropriate expenses at all future interventions whilst they remain on the Restart Scheme. You should advise your Participants of the evidence you will need them to produce to claim refunds of travel costs e.g. bus tickets when they commence the Restart Scheme.

6.04. Whilst your Participants are expected to travel by the cheapest method available to them, there will be occasions where some Participants will be unable to travel by the cheapest method, e.g. due to a disability. In these instances, you will need to refund any additional costs incurred, which you will have agreed taking into account all viable options with your Participant prior to their travel.

Please Note: You must ensure that you comply with current HMRC Guidance if you make payments or provide benefits e.g. travel cards, to your Participants after they have started work, which relate to that employment. You should inform your Participant that Tax and National Insurance Contributions (NICs) are payable and how this will be done. Failure to account for Tax and NICs that are due on payments made to Participants in employment may be subject to penalties in accordance with current HMRC regulations.

Travel
6.05. You are responsible for funding travel costs incurred by your Participant when attending interventions and activities in connection with the Restart Scheme. This includes interviews arranged by you, for example, to undertake work related activities, job interviews, or other related interviews.

6.06. If your Participant commences work, then you are not responsible for travel costs connected with that employment. Should you wish to offer to fund travel costs, this will be at your discretion and needs to comply with any HMRC guidelines, and are not claimable from DWP. However, you remain responsible for travel expenses relating to any actual Restart Scheme activity, until your Participant becomes an early exit or Restart Scheme completer.

Excellent oneman.

"You are required to actively promote the access to funding for travel"

Funny this as call me cynical but anything and everything that happens to be beneficial to a claimant/jobseeker they seem to overlook I'd put that question to roach shop manager. Appears they need training.

The thing that gets me is that you have to pay all travel expenses in advance . And then be reimbursed later, fine if you have money to spare. Yet I have known people having to walk to appointments due to lack of funds .

Also does anyone know where the cash for these travel expenses comes from. Is it from the JCP , or do the 'training' provider's pay it from the funds allocated to them?

Hi Pintel,

Know exactly what you mean. We are all in skint city and yet, they,roach shop think rather than us choose to upgrade our food bill on any particular week, then these morons feel it would be better to starve us and go have one of their dead head chats about all what they "can't do for people. "

After all, many will now have seen their wonderful service of specific, tailored training for what it actually is.......

As for we pay expenses first. When that happened to me and quite regular, they use this as another pressure point imo. "Specifically,tailored" to get people to crack and sign off or at worse; receive a sanction due to transport costs of attending roach shop "interview"

We have to travel by the cheapest means so that would be walking and costs nothing. They do have to consider any personal problems with walking but only consider it! See chapter 6. 6.04.
D Day 3pm tomorrow again.