Barrier to employment: no photo identification.

Having a few issues with my roach. I have all necessary identification for work and I have used this (this year) when I had a temp' job. No problem with any employer or anyone else, all went fine, no issues at all.

Applied for UC, used very basic (non-photo) identification in person, the claim got processed, no problem at all. Claim continues to be up and running, no brown envelopes (insert relieved face here).

Anyway, long story short, the roach is now saying that it is part of his/her job to verify that I have the documents an employer would ask for (passport / birth certificate) and for the roach to assist me to obtain these should I not have them.

It appears that the roach might next try to mandate me to get a passport. As someone with no intention of travelling I have never renewed my passport (past employers accepted an out of date one). If I decide to go on a holiday then I will get a new one  

Any advice appreciated. Thanks, in anticipation.

Update: There is quite a discussion of this on WCF, so I now know what I need to do.

Caker, I've seen the other thread but I'll respond here. If the coach mandates you to get a passport, surely the DWP will have to pay for it. If I was you, I'd give my availability on condition that the DWP will put the money in.

.....I really don't want a passport though, and I don't want any reason to open a bank a/c, I don't want DWP to know I have a passport (even if I get one for myself without their knowledge) but most of all I don't want DWP having access to data that they simply do not need in order to administer my claim lawfully.

This particular roach is coercive and needs to be challenged about this.

To cut a long story even shorter:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/254608/response/629224/attach/2/FoI%20690.pdf

In circumstances where UC claimants cannot produce sufficient or original identity documents their identity can still be verified and a decision made on the information provided.  We will consider the documentation the claimant does have, and whether the explanation given for not being able to provide any of the documents listed in the guidance is considered to be reasonable in the circumstances (for example, fled due to domestic violence or documents destroyed by fire). These circumstances should not be confused with those where the customer has simply forgotten to provide documentation, which they are able to obtain and provide later. The requirement to provide documentation will not be waived where it is known that it can be provided. In addition biographical security questions and/or checks will be used where there is no documentation and the claimant cannot obtain it.

also using the reference of removal from thee systems can be used as well

most things that are provided to a dwp adviser can be removed from the advisors usage or system

my argument would be im willing to provide it to a tribunal in by showing that i have these documents but willing to provide dwp the documents by showing that i have these documents

im against dwp roach using this as a reference to gain copys by scans and filling them within my file however these documents can be requested to be removed from my file

therefore a file gathering atempt by the roach by using directions to claim a sanction against myself when the stuff ive already provided has got me a job thats just recently ended ......

My point here is that I have all the ID I could ever need for a job. I provided acceptable ID to start my UC claim and this was accepted without question. My claim is operational without problems.

It is this particular roach who is arguing that s/he is entitled to establish my eligibility for work. I believe this could be a ruse to prove that I have the ID to open a bank a/c (which I don't want to do, I like using POCA).

DATA REMOVED FOR PRIVACY REASONS

I think the wc may quote the requirement to "prepare for work".

https://revenuebenefits.org.uk/universal-credit/guidance/entitlement-to-uc/work-conditions/

Is providing proof of a passport/bank account a labour market activity?

I will have a little think about how to stop the incessant pestering!

FYI

Pending foi: 'Requirements to obtain Photo ID and open a Bank Account and close a Post Office Card Account' https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/requirements_to_obtain_photo_id#incoming-1351086

bank accounts, can the job centre or DWP dictate?
2016 ref

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/bank_accounts_can_the_job_centre

Dear Department for Work and Pensions

Please can you confirm that Universal Credit will continue to be paid into Post Office Card Accounts?

Please advise by which date that it is planned to cease payment of Universal Credit into Post Office Card Accounts.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/post_office_card_account_3#incoming-1341793

However, the Post Office card account is a very simple account which can only receive pensions and benefits payment. As the Post Office card account does not allow payments of salary, regular reviews of whether this method of payment is suitable for a working age benefit recipients needs will take place.

this one is a very old one

2008

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/compulsion_for_recipients_of_ben#incoming-1216

another reference 2016

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/338491/response/844261/attach/html/2/FoI%202102.pdf.html

Currently DWP staff are referring to:

"Spotlight on: Method of Payment Universal Credit Post Office card accounts (POca)

A Post Office card account (POca) is a basic account that can only accept benefit
and pension payments. It cannot be used to accept wages/salaries, or to set up
direct debits for housing costs and household bills
POca should ONLY be used for those claimants who cannot manage a bank,
basic bank account, building society or credit union account. Ask for confirmation
that this is the case before agreeing to pay by POca.
If a claimant does have a POca account, their commitments
[claimant commitment] should include a step
within the voluntary section about the claimant taking steps to obtain a bank
account or basic bank account.
Claimants should be encouraged and supported to use an existing bank account,
building society or credit union account at every intervention. These discussions
should be recorded in claimant history and the outcomes noted.
Once a claimant has opened a bank building society or credit union account it is
important that work coaches highlight the need for the claimant to close the POca
as soon as possible, by obtaining and completing a form via the Post Office.

For those who are unable to access standard accounts DWP will offer a payment exception
service or process, these are currently the Post Office card account or HM Government
Payment Exception service.

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/559267/response/1337179/attach/html/2/Annex%20A.pdf.html

"Post Office card account
Post Office card account – is a simple account for the receipt of pension, benefits or tax credits. It is for those who are unable to open or manage a bank, building society or credit union account."
https://www.postoffice.co.uk/post-office-card-account

Dear DWP,

I am not able manage any type of bank account, please therefore grant me an exception and continue paying my benefit into my POca. The POca is for people like me "who are unable to open or manage a bank, building society or credit union account." https://www.postoffice.co.uk/post-office-card-account

Banks have discretion to open accounts for people without official photo ID and employers can use other forms of ID to confirm 'rights to work', like a birth cert and letter from the HMRC, an employer or the DWP showing a national insurance number.

Frank

This may help Caker

DRAFT

Dear Manager

Bank account & proof of identification

I wish to raise a concern about my work coach’s request for passport identification and bank account details.

DWP policy and the legislation does not require me to use a bank account to claim Universal Credit.  I choose to use my Post Office Card Account as my preferred method of payment at this time.

The Regulations

46.—[F1(1) The Secretary of State may arrange for benefit to be paid by way of direct credit transfer into a bank or other account nominated by the person entitled to benefit, a person acting on their behalf under regulation 57(1) or a person referred to in regulation 57(2).]

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/380/regulation/46

DWP policy

If a claimant does have a POca account, their commitments should include a step within the voluntary section about the claimant taking steps to obtain a bank account or basic bank account.Claimants should be encouraged and supported to use an existing bank account, building society or credit union account at every intervention.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/559267/response/1337179/attach/2/Annex%20A.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

[ wc name] is aware that my field of work is in [specify occupation] and to work in this field I need to provide [specify … which includes X ID and a bank account ] amongst other things, so I can start a work immediately.

I ask for my payment preference to be respected and look forward to your reply regarding this matter.


Yours faithfully

Caker is the jobcentre going to pay for this Photo I.D? a passport is nearly £80 now adays.

Thanks everyone, I see you have all been very busy and that is very much appreciated.

@Mark. No offer to pay, has been made. The roach has just mentioned assistance, as if I need help with filling in the form for the passport. I suspect that any request for help with payment will be declined.

@ND thanks for that letter draft; I may well use it if I have trouble. This particular roach has not raised a formal mandate (yet). I showed a link to the POCA FOI and s/he backed off, so I suspect that s/he knows when a DM will not be able to support her/his actions. I choose my UCj language with very great care and I think I could be giving this person sufficient rope with which to hang her/himself. I keep screen grabs. The pattern emerging tends to suggest the roach contradicts her/himself and is looking a fool with no help from me.

@Frank I look forward to the outcome of that FOI and a similar one that I observed on the same subject and posted recently.

Watch this space

I only have driving licence photo I.D now, my passport run out dec18. Sounds bit off wc wants passport photo I.D tho. Most of the under 25s in my town use Provisional Driving Licence photo I.D cards for buying drink etc, Mainly because they only cost about £30(i think).

I feel this sounds bit like racial discrimination to be turthfull like they say your not
british or have no right to work here may be worth complaining down this route if you have to?

Now I feel I need to to wade in this topic, because big words like "racism" and "discrimination" have been used improperly.

I totally support claimants who want to make work *oaches' lives difficult because they, most of times, deserve it.

However, I am a foreign citizen, and every time I have had to start a job or be vetted for a position, I've been given hard life. I've been asked multiple forms of ID. Many times my own legit passport has been refused as a form of ID because of my nationality. Countless times my national ID card has been refused because the HR department was too ignorant to know that a EU ID card is (Brexit pending) a valid form of identification.

Because of how I look and speak, if there were no checks, I could say I'm British born and bread and 99.9% of times I'd be believed.

Last year, I went to an "Asda Magic" assessment day. All of us candidates were sent an email, specifically requesting a passport + another form of ID to be shown at the assessment. It was 6 of us, 4 foreign citizens and two British citizens. The latter did not bring any form of ID and stormed off the assessment, claiming they were being discriminated for being white and British.

See where I'm coming from?

We can all express our opinions without claiming racial conspiracies. End of rant. Have a nice day.

@Miguel
I am sorry to read of what has happened to you during past experiences.

Although I have no idea of what an 'Asda Magic assessment day' actually is, I am sure that all participants were mislead on that occasion; no person is obliged to prove eligibility just to apply/enquire about any job, it is only when a job offer has been accepted that the employer has any business asking to see eligibility documents. I appreciate that they are sometimes asked for at the interview stage, to speed up the process.

I have not, in this thread, or elsewhere, mentioned anything about feeling racially discriminated against. The topic, which has rather drifted off now, is that I have all my correct documents and I am happy to show them to employers with which I have accepted a job (and I have done so in the recent past).

My enquiry (in this thread) was about whether I can be mandated to prove my eligibility (to work) to a DWP worker who is neither offering me employment nor acting on behalf of any employer by whom I have been offered employment.

Thanks to everyone who replied to my query. It is now time to lock it.