Referral to WHP straight after Restart

Hi guys, just a quick question, I’ve been given an appointment to the work and health programme, just a couple of weeks after finishing restart. As I’ve been unemployed over 2 years, is this a mandatory thing? I am disabled, although I hate that word!
Are there any FOI or advice anywhere that may help? The thought of more “help” doesn’t thrill me!
Thank you

Yuk🤮. One provider fails so another one gets to make money from you.

There are threads galore on this forum about the W&HP. Elsewhere on the internet, namely Reddit, you will find people claiming it is preferable to Restart.

My personal knowledge is limited. I think it is a 2 year thing and will consist of more or less the same as Restart - pointless courses and jobsearch. It used to be the case you were referred on health grounds or length of time unemployed. Referrals on health grounds used to be voluntary, no idea of they still are. It would be worth finding out the grounds for your referral. If it is mandatory your best bet is not signing paperwork.

Having recently finished Restart, I too am expecting a WHP referral.  I've been led to believe it's better than the Restart program, but others have told me you attend more frequently.

Could somebody more knowledgeable point us to a WHP thread, if not start one? I expect it will soon become a busy thread, just as the Restart ones have.

The W&HP threads are all on page 2 of this forum section. They got pushed down the boards by the shitshow that is Restart. I would caution that those threads may now be out of date. The W&HP Provider Guidance has certainly been updated, either last year or this year, so that really should be top of the reading list for anyone referred/having nightmares about being referred.

As I pointed out to DeafBloke, there are two pathways onto the W&HP. If referred, grill your WC to establish which category of referral you are. Do not budge from your seat until they have informed you. I cynically wonder if the people saying it is easier than Restart have been referred on health grounds. I suspect referrals for the workshy unemployed have taken a backseat to Restart and there is no reason why W&HP will offer an easier ride. The provider's contract with the DWP is the same as every other failed back to work programme - payment by results. In other words, get them into any old job by any old means if you want lucrative outcome payments.

The system is brutal heard people finish restart and re-sent back to restart they wanted to make as much cash $$$ last referral next June 2024 cycle continues don't sign paper work W&H isn't better same bullying advisors don't speak a word each appointment that my game plan next if i get referral next year to W&H or restart going to play fucking dumb.

High chance i might get restart again working part time they will push for another 12 months with a different company we have two restart companies in my area.

Provider Guidance below. It's best the forum reads it because we all know providers don't bother!

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/work-and-health-programme-including-jets-provider-guidance

According to the guidance, W&HP now lasts for 465 days. So longer than Restart but an improvement on the previous 2years duration of W&HP.

Core, Pioneer and JETS are the new referral categories. It is the first 2 that will likely apply to most on here.

The section on obtaining a participant's signature points out use of an app can take the place of a wet signature. Remember folks, don't download provider apps.

There is a separate autism pathway.

I shall read some more after I've had my dinner but this far nothing I've read makes me think it's better than Restart.

Jeez download application to track your movements and cookies and gain your consent to share.

fuck that advisor ask me next referral do your have a smartphone NO......
Provide me one OK 2-3 weeks later they provide me one........

What happened to the mobile phone lost it.......get me another one......Will just keep losing it till they give up.......... Contact me by post only........... New way to waste time and the provider funds stamps+mobile phone including top ups...............upto £20-£30 a pop doing this method.


465 days fucking long love these parasites providers trying the sneaky tactics to gain our consent permission without a signature just like the J.ET.S programme they send you a email the word you have to send back is "Agree" or "Accept" that all they required listen people be on your full guard people don't reply the silly games these people do.......

Grim reading thus far.

A provider has 15 days from referral to register a start so poor DeafBloke will be back on the provider treadmill imminently.

It does look like a provider can mandate activities sooner than with Restart. It also looks like they can mandate you to apply for a job.

Ch.6 deals with complex needs, and includes a handy guide for a provider to spot the signs of a person requiring additional support. Seemingly every possible adverse life event is on the list and a provider is apparently best placed to help.

I don't think I can read anymore about the W&HP for now.

Ignatius wrote:Grim reading thus far.

A provider has 15 days from referral to register a start so poor DeafBloke will be back on the provider treadmill imminently.

It does look like a provider can mandate activities sooner than with Restart. It also looks like they can mandate you to apply for a job.  

Ch.6 deals with complex needs, and includes a handy guide for a provider to spot the signs of a person requiring additional support. Seemingly every possible adverse life event is on the list and a provider is apparently best placed to help.

I don't think I can read anymore about the W&HP for now.

Also the provider apps can collect Personal info, Photos, location and even share to third parties like the indeed and reeds app in Google play....

Look at the information collected https://ibb.co/7S8St1Q

They automatically think if someone has a smart phone it must be the latest iPhone..

I only have a cheap smartphone, there is not enough space on it to have apps, but even if I did have space, no way would download there crap app.
Imagine downloading a providers app,🤮

The Catwoman wrote:They automatically think if someone has a smart phone it must be the latest iPhone..

I only have a cheap smartphone, there is not enough space on it to have apps, but even if I did have space, no way would download there crap app.
Imagine downloading a providers app,🤮

Well then they need to provide me with a great smartphone sadly these providers only give you a £10 Nokia phone only capable to run snake very sneaky downloading the provider app login with your credentials gaining your signature to catch us out......

You mean to say you spend your generous giro on the essentials of daily living and not on the latest iPhone, Catwoman?

Our you can do everything on your phone culture is ok for those who can replace devices regularly and/or afford multiple devices. If a phone is your only means of accessing the internet then it's probably fine for posting on subversive internet forums about the evil DWP but it's limited as a substitute for an actual computer. It just kills your eyes staring at a smaller screen for any length of time, not to mention killing the battery.

The only additional apps I've ever installed have been the bank to spare me a trudge to the cash machine to check I've been paid, and a voice recording app to record my WC and Restart.

Much as I must confess to being fond of my phone, I do find it a frustrating device. It may be capable of all manner of things but my income means i don't have much to spend and therefore don't need apps for turning on the heating, Burger King etc.

Anyway, I must return to reading the W&HP guidance so we can all have nightmares.

Every provider will now scramble to design a mobile phone app and mandate every cliamaint to use it by doing this they have your permission...........

What I have learned about W&HP.

People are referred as either Core, Pioneer or JETS participants. Core includes UC, IB JSA & ESA. JETS seems to be for new style JSA. Pioneer appears to be for everyone on UC and ESA, including those who have restrictions on their ability to look for work/no work requirements. If you are Pioneer there are no minimum contact hours - I don't know if that's good or bad. The only way out for everyone is to be on another DWP funded programme or employed on a zero hours contract. If referred, find out what category of referral you are. If I read it correctly, once you are unemployed for 24months you are classed as long term unemployed and it's mandatory. They do link time on benefits so going from JSA to UC is classed as a continuous claim.

Ch2. Covers the initial meeting. It should take place within 15working days of referral and be f2f. If you are Long Term Unemployed (24 months +) you can be mandated to this meeting. First meeting is checking ID, not in work/have job offer, commence "high level action planning". The start date is the day of this first meeting. If you do not attend, you will be referred until you do attend. However, a voluntary referral can refuse to attend. The provider should discuss and address your concerns about attending. You will also be invited to discuss your non-attendance with the JCP. Hmm.

The very bad news. Provider staff have been given Employment Officer status which means they have greater mandation powers than Restart . If you are a long term unemployed participant they can mandate you to most things, bar work experience and JSA claimants cannot be mandated to a Work Trial. If they mandate you to apply for a job they must fund your interview travel costs. They also have the legal authority to request information from an employer about your application and interview performance for jobs they mandated you to apply for.

I've still got several more chapters to plough through. It doesn't look good though, does it?

Guys,
look for 1,2,3 Hour bar work/cleaning to avoid this bollocks WHP programme seems good enough heck no way im getting put onto this gash will take away another 20+ years off my life restart was like a torture chamber they never give up thank goodness im in part time employment position they cannot mandate me to do anything at this point they are powerless for the next 60 days till i finished...the dude was threatening me with 12 months sanctions for not taking a 37 hour full time job work roach said restart are useless your in part time work/education to learn a new skill your work commitments is perfect........

Is this the same whp that started in 2018?

It appears to be the bastard lovechild of the original WHP. I do wonder if this guidance, which was only updated last month, needs to be read in conjunction with the older guidance just to help grasp how much has changed.

The original WHP was a bit easier to grasp. You were either a voluntary referral on health grounds or a mandatory referral due to length of time unemployed. Now with all this Core, JETS, Pioneer stuff it's a bit more muddled. A JETS participant is only on it for a mere 6 months. People who need in work support can be on this damn thing for 639 days. The autism referral pathway is certainly a new thing.

For anyone referred the health bit of the name is significant. This programme is clearly designed to attempt to inculcate the idea that health issues only stop you working if you let them. Likewise, "life events". The provider is expected to be able to help you overcome these to smooth your journey into work if you confide in them. It doesn't say that you could be sanctioned for refusing to engage with this support, but I'm sure the DWP are probably working on a way to achieve that. The original WHP were reluctant to take people who had experienced a recent bereavement. The new WHP has no such reluctance.

I have yet to find anything in the guidance about how much contact a provider is supposed to have with you.

As said earlier, it is a payment by results programme. If you are perceived as too difficult, expect to be parked. If you hand over your CV, sign the forms, expect to be harangued until you earn them money. And unlike Restart, they have more power to make your life a misery. Fun times ahead.

#Ignatius:
"The very bad news. Provider staff have been given Employment Officer status which means they have greater mandation powers than Restart . If you are a long term unemployed participant they can mandate you to most things, bar work experience and JSA claimants cannot be mandated to a Work Trial. If they mandate you to apply for a job they must fund your interview travel costs. They also have the legal authority to request information from an employer about your application and interview performance for jobs they mandated you to apply for.

I've still got several more chapters to plough through. It doesn't look good though, does it? "


Thanks for reading through the publications.. A couple of points if I may.

Employment Officer's status given to providers staff. Does it say exactly what power's they have been ordained with? As you could imagine that they will over step there authority to get the 'Brucey bonus' payout. If you could post the chapter/section that would be a great help.
Secondly, you mentioned that they can , legally request information on application/interview. This must infringe on some GDPR( data protection) regs? Also, you could see the 'toe-rags', getting a copy of a claimants CV, by stealth?

Pintel, your bedtime reading is "Ch5 b: Mandation to Activity Attracting a Higher Level Sanction".

I too would have thought contacting employers breaches GDPR. I wonder if when you sign their paperwork you consent to them checking up on you.

For those not keen on a zero hours contract as a way out of WHP, a move to Scotland will suffice. These provisions do not apply north of the border. As a result of a Scottish grandparent, I could play football for Scotland but the DWP meanies would regard me as insufficiently Scottish to dodge the WHP.

Ch 5a dealing with lower level sanctions is worth a read as well.

Pintel wrote:#Ignatius:
"The very bad news. Provider staff have been given Employment Officer status which means they have greater mandation powers than Restart . If you are a long term unemployed participant they can mandate you to most things, bar work experience and JSA claimants cannot be mandated to a Work Trial. If they mandate you to apply for a job they must fund your interview travel costs. They also have the legal authority to request information from an employer about your application and interview performance for jobs they mandated you to apply for.

I've still got several more chapters to plough through. It doesn't look good though, does it? "


Thanks for reading through the publications.. A couple of points if I may.

Employment Officer's status given to providers staff. Does it say exactly what power's they have been ordained with? As you could imagine that they will over step there authority to get the 'Brucey bonus' payout. If you could post the chapter/section that would be a great help.
Secondly, you mentioned that they can , legally request information on application/interview. This must infringe on some GDPR( data protection) regs? Also, you could see the 'toe-rags', getting a copy of a claimants CV, by stealth?

Too many silly low uneducated billys will download the stupid provider app and click on agree and listen to a tosser advisor upload your cv into your portal that how they will capture your signature and your cv the app will do all the data sharing to employers wouldn't trust these providers withhold the law even pulling out your consent to share no doubt they will contact your employer my tosser restart still think its ok to share to my data to any third party employer.

No doubt they will be shocked when someone doesn't download there app, and proceed to belittle you to make you do it.

100% they will say everyone does it what's your problem.

Nice 1 #Ignatius... While as I read it, the article primary focus' is on the 'Find-a-Job' site (Ch5: 46. Mandating LTU participants to apply for jobs in Find a job". However, as you mentioned they could use section 64; to slip this guidance? Yet a 'Compliance Doubt Referral' sounds like a load of unnecessary paperwork️ for hr to fill in...As well as their word , against yours, on the interview process?

64. Where alternative evidence is not provided you may wish to contact the employer so they can confirm whether a LTU Participant undertook the action you required of them, for example applied for a job, attended an interview, started work.


65. As part of your delivery DWP has arranged for a designation order that provides express legal authority for you to request information from an employer about a Participant’s job application or interview performance in relation to employment opportunities that you have mandated the Participant to.

LTU Participant behaviour


66. LTU Participants may behave in such a way that they lose the chance of employment. In such cases, an RE compliance doubt referral can be made even though the LTU Participant applied for the job. For example, if the LTU Participant:

  arrives late for an interview or goes to the wrong place through their own negligence
   imposes unreasonable conditions on acceptance of the job so that the employer withdraws the offer
   behaves in such a manner at an interview that the employer decides not to offer them the job
  refuses to give references or allow references to be taken up.

67. If a prospective employer makes it known that such conduct has occurred, the LTU Participant’s behaviour may amount to refusal or failure to apply. If it is identified that a LTU Participant has avoided the chance of a job, you must make a RE compliance doubt referral. Further information can be found in Chapter 8 - Raising a Compliance Doubt. It should be made clear to LTU Participants that whilst any failure will be referred to DWP by yourselves it will be a DWP LMDM who makes the decision based on all the facts and evidence.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/work-and-health-programme-including-jets-provider-guidance/chapter-5b-mandation-to-activity-attracting-a-higher-level-sanction

Ps ; I prefer a good Swashbuckler adventure on the high seas for my bed time reading...

Ignatius wrote:Pintel, your bedtime reading is "Ch5 b: Mandation to Activity Attracting a Higher Level Sanction".

I too would have thought contacting employers breaches GDPR. I wonder if when you sign their paperwork you consent to them checking up on you.

For those not keen on a zero hours contract as a way out of WHP, a move to Scotland will suffice. These provisions do not apply north of the border. As a result of a Scottish grandparent, I could play football for Scotland but the DWP meanies would regard me as insufficiently Scottish to dodge the WHP.

Good question: What happens if you get a referral over the programme for two weeks or two months and you source your own employment? This can be a zero-hour contract. Can the WHP advisor beat your ass down to do full time, just like the restart? These people are literally very high on drugs, getting everyone into full-time positions sometimes makes me feel like beating down my splastic advisor, who told me to work full time to save up for a house and car and told him part-time leads to full-time. Dude, just shut up. Love to see him raise a sanction doubt over someone working and studying. The DM will just laugh at this request right off, basically forcing someone to quit their part-time job and leave studying to take on a role at the restart, which is miles away told the fool I would not last two days in the terrible, shitty working conditions keeping my local job. I also told my work coach first last week they are bullying me by blackmailing them before they raise any doubt. I don't want the plastic advisor to make false stories up.

The joy of job seeker allowance, work roaches, and advisors cannot force you to work more hours. Only seeking work and working up to 16 hours of universal credit is a different ball game.