restart action plans

by niceguy1984 Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:15 pm

I have just started the Restart program with reed/peopleplus on the action plan the reed advisor has put

'complete job search and apply for at least 6 vacancies a week and send evidence to the advisor of the job applications made this is to be completed each week and advisor will keep track on progress of job application submissions'

Is the action plan a mandate? i apply for jobs each week and record info etc. but i refuse to send him evidence etc, what right do i have not to do this what can i do now?

Thanks in advance

Nice guy

by Gallazz Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:30 pm

Are you on Universal Credit or JSA?

by niceguy1984 Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:58 pm

I am on uc being on for about two years

by Gallazz Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:11 am

I found this FOI:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/claimant_refusal_of_signature_fo?unfold=1#incoming-1863909

An action plan itself is not a mandate, and it needs to be made clear where activities are mandatory (in writing for JSA, but on UC you can be mandated verbally to some activities, but I'm not sure which...)

But if you haven't even been told that any activities are mandatory, I would assume that they're not.

It sounds like you're best off refusing to sign the action plan, since there's no legislation which states that you must.

by Gallazz Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:41 am

This states that Restart have to issue a Mandatory Activity Notification whenever they want to mandate participants to any activity, so if your action plan was mandated, you would have received one. See below, 8.42:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/restart-provider-guidance/chapter-8-mandating-participants-to-undertake-activity

by london123 Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:52 pm

i addended the restart with Maximus even though I am 65 with multiple health issues, i have a sick note but still, have to go they have just recently told me i will have an health coach, who will ring me over four weeks, six 45-minute sessions, to discuss what sort of work i am able do, and talk about my health,lol

by Pintel Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:09 pm

Gallazz wrote:This states that Restart have to issue a Mandatory Activity Notification whenever they want to mandate participants to any activity, so if your action plan was mandated, you would have received one. See below, 8.42:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/restart-provider-guidance/chapter-8-mandating-participants-to-undertake-activity

️

Thanks for the posting #Gallazz

One thing more on the link 8.42. About the UC MAN 'is a notification you must issue to a participant each time you mandate them to undertake an activity' confused

.
My question is do you know what is required on a UC_MAN? Just some claimants have dodged a mandatory activity, due to missing correct information on it.....

restart action plans 2650990582

by Pintel Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:00 pm

Hey Pintel restart action plans 220830807

Pintel wrote:
Hey Pintel

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/restart-provider-guidance/chapter-8-mandating-participants-to-undertake-activity further information.

8.44. The UC MAN must contain the following information:

the specific action that the Participant is required to undertake to meet the requirement

when or by when they must undertake it

the location of the activity

what evidence they must supply to demonstrate completion, if any
a contact name and number of activity provider

the compliance condition they must undertake if they fail to comply, and a sanction is subsequently imposed – see paragraph 8.56 for further information.

by Pintel Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:18 pm

Sorry I am making a

dinner out of this

Seem it needs to be delivered F2F or by Letter.

8.47. You can issue the UC MAN to your Participant face to face or by post. When choosing between these two methods you must take into account any known advanced support needs or challenges.

8.51. There are no other permissible methods of issuing the UC MAN to your Participant. However, you may wish to use additional methods to communicate with your Participant and remind them of the mandatory requirement, for example email, SMS.

Nothing about via the UC Journal

by Ignatius Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:21 pm

Correct me if I am wrong, but I recall reading that a MAN has to tell you about the sanction you may receive if you do not comply with the MAN.

by Pintel Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:29 pm

Ignatius wrote:Correct me if I am wrong, but I recall reading that a MAN has to tell you about the sanction you may receive if you do not comply with the MAN.

Maybe it comes under the "compliance conditions' ?

"Lets see what you would of won" in a Bulleye stylee

by Ignatius Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:46 pm

Do you mind me asking what a 'health coach' is, London123. Sounds a bit sinister to me, and potentially the last thing a person with significant health issues needs.

by The Catwoman Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:48 pm

I wouldn't discuss any health issues with them. They are not a doctor.

by london123 Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:30 am

Ignatius wrote:Do you mind me asking what a 'health coach' is, London123. Sounds a bit sinister to me, and potentially the last thing a person with significant health issues needs.

on my last face-to-face visit with restart a few days ago. as I still have a sick note so not looking for work, they are preparing me for work. so I am doing stupid mock interviews and having to watch long boring videos on health and wellbeing. etc, now have been told to help me find what sort of work i can do with osteoporosis and my other conditions I will be assigned a health coach who will ring me at random times for six 45-minute sessions, god noes why 45 minutes, I'll end up hanging up on them.

by Guest Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:53 am

I would be sending a clear message to any roach in that taking my age and health conditions into account, of which is looking like they clearly haven't, then what makes them feel they are in a better position to advise or care better than any NHS health ''actual professional''...do tell. Answer's on a postage stamp.

Said before London letter to roach shop and divisional manager copied into to your MP.

Also, if being asked to discuss your own health with a bloody stranger/roach I'd seriously be questioning that, and even worse if any meeting is being conducted in one of their pathetic non private offices.

And this ''having to watch long boring videos on health and wellbeing. '' Point out that wonderful event, is having a negative impact on your mental health as it sure hell would do on mine.

This imo this is just another bunch of ideology and yet another! waste of tax payers money into the bargain.

Only people gaining from this moronic experience is the provider companies holding these courses.

Sent you a PM London.

by Guest Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:33 pm

london123 wrote:i addended the restart with Maximus even though I am 65 with multiple health issues, i have a sick note but still, have to go they have just recently told me i will have an health coach, who will ring me over four weeks, six 45-minute sessions, to discuss what sort of work i am able do, and talk about my health,lol

Ask, do tell what employers etc are particularly looking for people in your situation, taking your age and all health issues into consideration. If you have any problems with travelling to any of these circuses London, put this in a journal message to roach shop. They have a duty under reasonable adjustments and like to just innocently forget. I've had my fair share of having to remind these people of this.

by Ignatius Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:33 pm

As Jobberpw says, yet more of the ideology first approach.

Osteoporosis is grim, physically and psychologically, as are many of the bone strengthening drugs used, but all you need are some stupid mock interviews and videos???

I think I would be tempted to refuse to discuss my health with them, or be even more awkward then I normally am. Ask for the health advisors NMC or GMC registration number. If they're not a registered medical practitioner, ask exactly what qualifications they do have to be an expert in your conditions. Are you brave enough to ask the provider why your GP doesn't prescribe you videos and mock interviews, but instead signs you off as unfit to work?

Just ringing you up at a random time and expecting you to be available to discuss your highly sensitive medical information, regardless of where you are, isn't on either.

by Guest Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:48 pm

niceguy1984 wrote:I have just started the Restart program with reed/peopleplus on the action plan the reed advisor has put

'complete job search and apply for at least 6 vacancies a week and send evidence to the advisor of the job applications made this is to be completed each week and advisor will keep track on progress of job application submissions'

Is the action plan a mandate? i apply for jobs each week and record info etc. but i refuse to send him evidence etc, what right do i have not to do this what can i do now?

Thanks in advance

Nice guy

Nice guy, there is some case law on how they cant mandate you to apply for x amount of jobs per week as there is no guarantee suitable work either amount of or suitability/location will be there. Have a google and find the case law.If i come across it i will post it. This is just another delusional bath tub think tank idea of buy more lotto tickets weekly and your bound to win.

by Guest Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:52 pm

Ignatius wrote:Do you mind me asking what a 'health coach' is, London123. Sounds a bit sinister to me, and potentially the last thing a person with significant health issues needs.

That would be, a roach whos now jumped ship after a 4 week training course = now a qualified medic Evil or Very Mad

.

by Ignatius Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:14 pm

A 4 week training course plus watching a few episodes of Holby City makes for an Advanced Health Advisor role. If I ever found myself with a health advisor I think I would call them at 8am every morning seeking their advice on every little health concern I had seeing as they think they are more expert than my GP.

I used to work with someone who had to change career due to a serious health problem. They were fortunate in that their wife paid the bills while they studied. They went on to have a decent career in a very different area. If that kind of training/retraining was available to people, fair enough, but as it costs money it never will be. Leaflets, videos, positive thinking, advice about healthy eating is cheap.

by london123 Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:03 pm

even my roach on the restart program said,he has to do something. he admitted i won't probably get a job in my condition, but he has to follow the rules
when i get my first call from the health coach ill give him or her 5 minutes then hang up and block their number, can they sanction someone who is on the sick.

by niceguy1984 Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:20 pm

Thanks for replys people reading the action plan it is on peopleplus paper work, no mention about Mandatory Activity Notification or santions on paperwork.

jobberpw being googling about case law but cant find anything

Thanks for all the help so far

by Ignatius Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:04 pm

London123 - I suppose you could listen to their advice & then use it to your advantage if you decide to go down the complaining route by pointing out how useless the Health Coach was.

Your Holby City educated Health Coach is not qualified to know if you are on the most effective medications for your bone disorder, or what the results of your bone density scans mean. As for general advice about your health issues you probably already know about getting adequate calcium and Vitamin D intake. I presume if you are capable of weight bearing exercise then you would do some of your own volition because you understand the importance of it. Doubtless there will be some of that pseudo science tosh about how the right attitude is all you need to overcome health problems - the real purpose of these health advisors if you ask me. Before you hang up on them, tell them you'd have learnt more by watching Doctors on the tellybox.

It's all very well the Restart coach saying he has to refer you, but does it actually say that in the guidance? Have these appointments been made on the correct Mandatory Activity Notice? If they can't even give an appointment time, I suspect they are not. You shouldn't be forced into these appointments so your advisor can tick a box. Your health info is special category of personal data and I fail to see why they need it just to arrange mock interviews.

I have no idea if you can be sanctioned if you have a sick note, hopefully someone who does know will post.

I hope the health appointment isn't too soul crushing for you.

by Ignatius Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:35 pm

Niceguy - from my reading of the provider guidance, Action Plans have to be updated every x weeks. You could refuse to sign the next one and quote the relevant FOI at them, as pointed out above.

What do they mean about proof of applications? Screenshots of the vacancies? Email receipt of your applications? Copies of your applications? If the jobcentre are not allowed to look at your applications/personal emails, then doubt Restart can.

Over on the main Restart thread, in amongst my many posts about the hassles I was getting, I posted up a copy of Reed In Partnership's paperwork, which presumably you had as well if with Reed. On page 3 it unequivocally states you will be told in writing if an activity is mandatory. So even if you are on UC you should still get a written MAN, and it will need to tell you that you may be sanctioned if you do not comply. Ask Restart for this 6 applications a week nonsense on a proper written notice, as per there own rules. If you did sign their paperwork at the first meeting, you can withdraw your consent to share your data with them at any time. It may be worth doing that because then they will not be able to track your applications and regard you as too uncooperative to be worth their time.

If you can't find out if they can mandate you to apply for X vacancies a week, you could make a Freedom of Information request to the DWP asking if a person on UC can be mandated to apply for a set number of vacancies per week.

by oneman Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:23 pm

london123 wrote:i addended the restart with Maximus even though I am 65 with multiple health issues, i have a sick note but still, have to go they have just recently told me i will have an health coach, who will ring me over four weeks, six 45-minute sessions, to discuss what sort of work i am able do, and talk about my health,lol

Hi london. if you have a fit note from your doctor then you do not have to go into the jobcenter or do the restart programme.
Who told you you have to go in as this is rubbish and could also affect your health further.
I presume you have entered your fit note into your journal and if so they should give you a time to re-attend after you fit note has ran out.
Have you had a work capability assessment? If not then you are still required to prepare for work until an outcome is reached. You should put in a complaint to the manager and say it is causing you anxiety along with all your other issues. A letter of support from your doctor will also help.

Do not take or participate in the phone calls. Just keep sending fit notes and letters until you get a WCA.

It sounds like you have been put on the Work and Health Programme? It’s voluntary - unless you’ve been out of work and claiming unemployment benefits for 24 months.

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