Job interview at Job Centre, valid reasons to not attend? (JSA)

Hi everyone,

After my last job centre meeting my WC booked me into an interview for a job I don't want which is taking place at my local job centre on Thursday afternoon. A position they tried to book me into before;

About 6 weeks ago the WC called me during the week and left a voicemail about booking me in, to which I then replied with an email, since the job centre was now closed, about why I'm not interested in the job role and that someone better suited to the line of work would be better off to take the booking slot. (not suited to the role; similar job in the past which didn't work out after trial, plus it's a temporary contract, no weekly fixed shift pattern which affects personal responsibilities). Plus this job has super high staff turnover and they advertise non stop on most jobsites every week - It's one of those jobs where you're totally expendable and replaceable which is why.

It turns out they're doing interviews again in-house at the job centre and she put me on the spot during our fortnightly meeting, I said I'd explained before why I'm not suited to this position last time and that I'm not keen for it, but she booked me in for it anyway and I didn't really know how to say no without coming across like refusing work, as she recently guilts me with being long-term unemployed and stuff, even though I've had my hands full with an ill father and my life has been hectic. So anyway It seems every fortnight now I'm being told to go somewhere and do something now after every meeting, and there's almost always someone hiring in the job centre. The last few I've made sure to go to places in order to avoid sanctions, information sessions about jobs, jobs fairs and the like.

Regardless, what are the valid reasons for not attending, and since she's actually booked me in on the system for the interview, does that mean it's now a mandatory situation? Or would a written job seeker's direction be needed to mandate this (which wasn't given) ?

Any help appreciated.

Thanks.

Just go to the interview, give short answers, don't be too interested, there's probably gonna be 50 other claiments attending aswell.

The Jobseekers Act 1995 says that Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA) is not payable if a claimant has, without good reason:
 refused to apply for a job;
 failed to apply for a job; or
 refused to accept a job which was offered.
4. This is provided that:
 the job was notified to the claimant by an Employment Officer;
 the job was notified to the claimant personally when attending the Jobcentre Plus office (or elsewhere), or by letter or by telephone; and.
 the job was not self-employment.

Thanks guys. Yeah I could just go but like I said this company seemingly just farms job centres for unemployed folk as they're always hiring and re-hiring, chopping and changing staff. It's also via an agency so it won't even be employment by the company itself.

Anyway, I was really just wondering how high a chance a sanction it would be if absent and if it was mandatory. If it's not this one they'll rope me into something else which doesn't align with my skills anyway I guess.

Cheers.

Name the company

The Catwoman wrote:Name the company

With respect I'd prefer not to, for the sake of anonymity.

Some agencies hires everyone that attends their group sessions. I learned that when I did the work programme in 2015. Because of, as you said, high turnover they will hire just about anyone and everyone. And then they just assume some people will either quit, won't show up or get fired for under performance. It's not an information session, it's a group session to fill in the forms for the contracts.

If you are unlucky to attend one of these, there isn't much you can do to avoid getting the job. I think as you are on JSA you can just say no to jobs that's below a certain amount of hours every week.

If you are unlucky to get one of those jobs, you want to get out of it as soon as possible. As it's minimum pay, only give minimum effort for the job. Don't work too hard. Take slightly longer breaks than you are allowed. Check your phone at times (your ill father is a good reason for that). Document everything that makes your mental health worse. Once you have a few things, that's your way out of this job. DWP won't sanction you if you quit because of mental health, but please ask someone here before you do - just to be sure. If you are lucky you will only have to work a few days before they stop asking you to come in.

Thanks Jara, you absolutely get it.

That is the predicament really, either go to the interview with a 99% chance of being hired for a job that doesn't respect its workers, or get sanctioned. So either go or lose benefits, win win for DWP and conglomerate - one less unemployed and more cogs in the supply chain who get tossed and can be replaced at a moments notice. Low pay, temporary contract for a reason - so they can just sweep up the job centres again in a few months when half of their staff has left for one reason or another because they know the standards are piss poor and that workers will be glad to see the back of them.

It's an unethical practice that exploits the labour market if you ask me. It's only a few big companies/agencies that do this kind of thing, but it's still rife. I've brought this up to my WC before how I don't want to work for companies that operate in this way because I know how it works and that I foresee being back to square one for the sake of a few months work, or less if I'm expended. Then it's the hassle of switching to universal credit etc. when I'm back out of work or the contracts over. I would much prefer to gain stable long-term employment in a position that I know I'm capable in, for example the last job related thing I was told to attend was right up my alley, led to an application and hopefully interview. It's not really about pay either but the well-being and a company that actually respects it's employees. I just detest that feeling of being shoe-horned when the bigger picture doesn't come into play...

It's not a solution to unemployment its a quick haul of the net on the unemployed that temporarily frees up the books of the dwp for a short while. I suppose I better not skimp on applying to other jobs while I do this one if I'm selected, so I don't have to return to the joke centre.

If it's a temporary job, can you be forced to apply if on JSA.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1078940/dmgch34.pdf

34366 If a claimant refused to apply for or accept a job involving fewer than 24 hours work a week they
may be able to show good reason (see DMG 34368)

ote 1: Claimants are not automatically allowed good reason and the DM should consider each case on
its individual merits where the claimant raises the hours issue as the reason for not applying for a
vacancy.
Note 2: This does not apply if the claimant refuses or fails to carry out a JSD although a claimant may be
able to challenge the direction as unreasonable (see DMG 34908)

Zero Hours Contract
34743 Claimants cannot be mandated to apply for vacancies which include a Zero Hours Contract.
Therefore, if a claimant refuses or fails to apply for or accept a notified Zero Hours Contract vacancy the
claimant has not failed or refused employment and a sanction should not be considered (also see DMG
34415).

What is misconduct
34536 The word "misconduct" is not defined in SS legislation, but it suggests an element of
blameworthiness1. It means such misconduct as would persuade or oblige a reasonable employer to
dismiss employees because, considering their misconduct, they are no longer fit to hold their
employment2. Misconduct is conduct which is connected, but not necessarily directly, with the
employment. And taking into account the

.......

2. everyone makes mistakes or is inefficient from time to time. So, for example, if a claimant is a naturally
slow worker who, despite making every effort, cannot produce the output required by their employer,
they are not guilty of misconduct even if the poor performance may justify their dismissal (see DMG
34609)

Mental health
34236 Claimants may have good reason if they lose or leave work or fail to carry out tasks or participate
in relevant activities if they were experiencing poor mental health which meant that
1. they were not able to comply with a reasonable request or
2. complying with the request in question would put their mental health at risk or
3. complying with the request would have put the health of other people at risk.

@hasteyninja I completely agree with you. As you say, for DWP it's a win-win. Either they get you out of a system and into this job, or they have you sanction. Luckily you are on JSA and you should be able to avoid this job no problem.

So what I would do, and have done in the past for agency jobs like these - is just go to the group session. And then state that you would only sign a contract that's for 16 or more hours. Also make sure to take pictures of all the paperwork. They won't be able to offer you anything close to 16 hours a week, so you can politely decline the job offer. You could also explain to them that for you to take up work, even for a few hours a week, you would be forced to close you JSA claim and potentially earn money. If they try to promise you there will be plenty of hours and shifts available for you, then ask them to offer all those hours in the contract. They won't be able to do that.

Thanks J. Decent information there.

I don't think its a GIS however as the WC said it's interviews and said my slot was the last one left, but again, she speaks with such vagueness and just goes straight to booking me in before i can say anything I actually had to ask her to print off an information sheet if any so I can know more about the job I'm about to interview for, which she reluctantly did (though as suspected it was the one I thought it was from jobsites).

So it could well turn out to be a group thing afterall and just me being misinformed (she does that a lot), and to that point I don't know the dress code, how long the interview will be, what documents are required, all I was told was the appointment time and to send a CV to my WC's DWP colleague beforehand to which I said no thanks I'll be taking a printout and giving it to them directly.

The hours p/w don't actually seem to be an issue in regards to over 16hrs, it states 37hrs with occasional weekends. So I don't think its a zero hour thing, but it's temporary contract with the "chance of extension or permanent subject to performance".

The shift pattern itself is unclear, it just says shifts will be between 6am-7pm. I visit my dad often throughout the week to make sure he is well, eating, medicated etc. So not knowing shift patterns is not ideal. I might bring this up at the interview but I don't know if that's a kosher thing to do.

If I'm honest I don't know if the agency will be taking anything into account as they'll probably just be trying to get people signed up, right to work docs etc. Whether there's even a one-to-one or not I don't know for sure as I've barely any info besides the job desc. printout I requested.

Thanks for chipping in, all.

'forget' to bring your id. They can't sign you up with out it.

The Catwoman wrote:If it's a temporary job, can you be forced to apply if on JSA.

Yes.

Temporary employment
34385 Subject to DMG 34384 the fact that the employment offered is only temporary does not of itself provide good reason1. It is for the DM to consider all the facts of the individual case on its merits and apply a common sense approach in the individual’s circumstances and apply the reasonableness test in consideration of good reason. Temporary employment can assist the claimant by
1. updating existing skills
2. learning new skills
3. becoming more confident
4. improving their CV
5. showing employers they can keep regular hours and stay committed to a task
6. meeting people who can help them find work
7. giving them something to talk about in a job interview and
8. gaining references to improve their prospects of further employment.

Note: For the purposes of a failure to apply for or accept if offered, any employment opportunity, regardless of the duration of the employment, the sanction duration is for a fixed period. The failure is not a failure prescribed for in relevant legislation2 which allows for the sanction to be reduced (see DMG 34097 et seq).

If you apply for a job where it's clear you do not have the skills to do the job and there is no training on offer, a DM could view that application as a failure to follow the "best prospects of securing employment" agreement stated on your CC, ie you are not actively seeking employment. It seems your WC wants their cake and eat it too though.

If I'm honest I don't know if the agency will be taking anything into account as they'll probably just be trying to get people signed up, right to work docs etc.

All you have been offered is an interview for a job, the details of which are vague and which the WC wasn't even going to tell you about.  You do not have to sign any of their paperwork prior to being offered a job. The only document you are to give them is your CV.  During the interview you have the chance the ask the agency why the company has a high turnover of staff. There is nothing wrong with asking that question. After all, you do not know what goes on behind the scenes, only that the same advert appears repeatedly, indicating a problem, the nature of which is opaque. It could be that they are being sent unskilled people to interview by the jobcentre? One can ask honest questions in an interview about a company, particularly if outside the company there is a perception of the company not being able to keep staff, which might be incorrect (but probably isn't).

shifts will be between 6am-7pm

not knowing shift patterns is not ideal. I might bring this up at the interview but I don't know if that's a kosher thing to do

Asking about the shift patterns is perfectly reasonable. If they offer you a job and you turn it down please be aware that refusal of employment will result in termination of your JSA claim if you do not have a really good reason for it. If your CC is unrestricted, the shifts don't matter where turning down a job is concerned, unless there is a transport issue or other good reason (ill relatives don't count) why you can't work between 6am and 7pm. However, any sanction under JSA can't be ported over to UC as far as I know, which is always worth keeping in mind.

Any symptoms of covid19 will stop you attending the interview as their own rules state not to attend. I actually have long covid and have been off for months.

Hi guys so i went to the interview and they pretty much took that I wasn't the right fit, my CV showed I was qualified/experienced for other things entirely and when asked I just said my WC put me forward for the position for "WC reasons". They knew the script and it wasn't too bad they had plenty others to see as some of you pointed out so they didn't seem too hot and bothered, I didn't have any ID either lol. So I thanked them for their time after some other general questions and went on my way.

I'll hopefully get hear back from some of the ones I've applied for off my own back soon so I can be outta that place and not deal with any more agency farms via job centre hires.

My next WC meeting will probably go down like a knackered lift but

Thanks for the discussion and help as always guys.

Sorry to hear that oneman. I hope they figure out that long stuff soon.

As @oneman said.....you could be ill for any number of reasons...or on holiday...believe it or not, claimants are allowed to be both ill and take a holiday!  

hasteyninja wrote:My next WC meeting will probably go down like a knackered lift but

Most likely they won't bother to ask about it. And if they do, just tell them you were not offered a job.

It amazes me how much shi t they put you through just too keep their job and get the money.
I have a 4 week fit note but my work roach keeps pestering me, saying " you might be better tomorrow I've booked you an appointment next week!!!!!!!!!I"
WTF.
Why waste an appointment that others could use as I will be off sick?
I did put an official complaint in but as I'm now still off sick , what is the chances of the complaint being followed up?
SMHD

If WC asks about it just say, they said they will get back to you, that always shuts them up.

Are you talking to me?
That makes no sense.

oneman wrote:I have a 4 week fit note but my work roach keeps pestering me, saying " you might be better tomorrow I've booked you an appointment next week!!!!!!!!!I"
WTF.
Why waste an appointment that others could use as I will be off sick?
I did put an official complaint in but as I'm now still off sick , what is the chances of the complaint being followed up?
SMHD

Reminds me when I had my first foot op, I couldn't walk (told not to leave the house), and the roach rang me up to book me in for the usual fortnightly meeting. I have to admit that I lost my temper (I was in a lot of pain). I asked her what part of my not being able to walk she didn't understand? After that she left me alone, but following my recovery (after which I needed a second op) she spent every session trying to get me to apply for jobs that would involve me standing all day. I truly think she was a closet sadist. And yep, it's often not worth bothering to complain.

Some helpful links:

https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/10159/#46615

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/182400/response/448565/attach/4/FOI%205109%20JSA%20RE.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

The employment officer must issue a lawful mandate, covered above.

The DWP officer must take into account all restrictions (caring, disabilities, travel etc.) included in the JSAG/JSA claimant commitment.  Is the claimant capable of doing the job? Is there a permitted period in force (new claimants). Domestic emergencies, incapacity is relevant too.

Well done everyone for all the excellent information in this thread.  

Absolut: ''Reminds me when I had my first foot op, I couldn't walk (told not to leave the house), and the roach rang me up to book me in for the usual fortnightly meeting. I have to admit that I lost my temper (I was in a lot of pain). I asked her what part of my not being able to walk she didn't understand? After that she left me alone, but following my recovery (after which I needed a second op) she spent every session trying to get me to apply for jobs that would involve me standing all day. I truly think she was a closet sadist. And yep, it's often not worth bothering to complain. ''


The above surely has to be crystal clear confirmation if ever it was ever needed that, deluded morons are there just for the sake of it.

Underlined above...exactly, and i and many others would have asked exactly the same. Not least, a qualified GP too. ''If they disagree with my reasonable assessment then please do let me know.'' I was told. I am positive most medical Dr's would be seeing it like this. Talking of, my GP also questioned what planet are DWP etc on. His words, not mine:twisted: . When assessing people, they are clearly not using appropriate logic when someone is not well be that physically, or mentally.