Work coach intimidation.

I was sent on whp, but I didn't sign the consent to share my data form which also stated I can withdraw my consent at any time.

the whp ingenus wouldn't let me start program. So on my next visit to the jc, I told my wc and she said you can still take part as its mandatory even though you didn't sign consent form. The wc said her manager will deal with it.
5 weeks later I have a new work coach and she asks me why Im not on whp I tell her they wouldn't let me start as I didn't sign the consent form. I showed it to her as I took it with me. This new work coach spend 1 hour ranting at me intimidating me. She said if I don't sign the consent form there and then she will refer me to a decision maker for with holding my signature, the wc threatened me with daily attendance she said it was my fault im unemployed she was real nasty. She said its whp job to apply for jobs for me and contact my doctor. I haven't even got a doctor im on jsa.

I asked to speak to the manager, the wc spoke to her I wasn't allowed to. Then I was told the manager will contact whp.

My next appointment, the wc says she's doing a new cc. She gets up and calls another wc over to me and im faced with another rant about why im not on whp, they are demanding I sign the consent form even though it said I can withdraw my consent at anytime. I m being shouted at threatend with sanctions and decision makers. Im told its my fault im unemployed, I m not good enough to work in retail. The work coach then demanded I start signing electronically signing. I tell her its not mandatory to do. She tells me if I do not she will refer me to a decision maker for refusing to electronically sign she said its a barrier.

I ask to see the manager. He was just as intimidating he wouldn't answer my questions about electronic signing not being mandatory.
He told me not to attack him when I was calm. He said instead of following rules and regulations I would have a job by now. He said if I was working I would have more money to go out drinking, I don't even drink or smoke.

The manager looked at my cv and said he wouldn't employ me, he told me he would put it in a bin. He kept shouting out how long ive been uneployed.
Aftwr 2 hours he admitted electronic signing was not mandatory and I was given my next appointment and allowed to leave.

These woork coaches dont care about foi or guidance. They think all claimants are scroungers, how dare a work coach who sits on her arse all day tell me her tax pays for my benefits.
Im sick of all of them they made me feel like shit.

Hi Catwoman

I was attacked in somewhat the same fashion when I was assigned a new work coach back in 2016, when I was still on the Work Programme.

If the DWP is making an unreasonable verbal demand that I know is illegal (such as believing they have the right to know my private email address) I would ask them to make it clear via a Job Seeker's Direction exactly what it is they want me to do and what the penalty will be if I do not comply. It's not enough for them to verbally make unreasonable demands. Without written evidence that they have made a demand on me then they have no proof that they asked me to do it and no proof that I subsequently failed to comply. (The second roach entering the conversation was to be a witness. I'm not certain if a second roach has a right to become involved in your work search review but I can't find any rule against it. On the second roach getting involved I would have asked for their name and asked them why they were asking me questions.)

The threat to close your claim - I don't know if the threat was outright or implied, but a roach can't close a claim in the manner implied, only a DM can do that and only if there is evidence to show that you are deliberately circumnavigating "the best chance of getting work" rule. The roach can't know if the DM will close the claim because once the referral has been sent it's then out of their hands. The extent of their power is the power of the referral and that's it. The threat of claim closure is in order to get an emotional response from you - fear, anger etc, but from what I've read I think you already know that

The main bug up the ass of the roach and the manager/s seems to be lack of an email address on your CV and the third party disclaimer, along with them wanting you to give them something they are not entitled to (email address again). All that is required under JSA is that you have a CV. Nowhere in the JSA rules have I read anything about the contents of a CV, but following their line of logic I advise that you remove the third party disclaimer off your CV (you don't need it) which meets their complaint half-way. There is no requirement in law for a CV to have an email address on it. It is not a barrier if you don't use email. Many people don't have an email address or don't like to be contacted that way. As long as you are contactable in some manner you have fulfilled the requirements of the JSA claim and there is jack shit they can do about it. The rules are slightly different under UC but we are on a JSA track here and there is no rule about giving them an email address or having an email address on a CV. I do give them an email address but it's a specific "work" based one. if they email me I will ignore it as I have not given them permission to contact me in that way. They tend to contact me via text message. Alternatively, insert the following into your CV where the email address would be as - "[Email address will be inserted here]" to indicate that is where your email address goes if you do decide to be contactable that way to particular employers. You can point out to a roach that data protections laws are robust but identity theft is on the rise.

Consent form and threat of daily signing for refusing to sign it - daily signing is for people who have recently left employment. It is not appropriate for a long term benefit claimant as it will not get you into work any quicker and is simply a spiteful punishment for saying NO to handing over your CV to a total stranger who ignored the fact that you were referred inappropriately under the wrong conditionality group. The error is theirs, not yours.

It seems to me that the WHP is simply a recruitment agency in disguise.

Would you have been better off on the WHP in a voluntary manner? Yes, but the CV problem would still exist. It's more than likely that they will rectify the referral error without apology and force you onto the WHP under the "work only" part which is mandatory for the long term unemployed. However, it is not mandatory to sign their forms. As you are well aware if there is duress then the consent form isn't valid. If you end up on the WHP in a compulsory manner you have the right to ask your "advisor" to sign a statement that they will not send your CV to any employer without getting your permission first. Explain that you are entitled to do your own research on an employer to make sure they are a) legit, b) complying with health and safety laws etc and c) within the parameters set on your CC. That is a reasonable way to deal with a provider having your CV and it will circumnavigate a sanction.

Criticising your CV - a4e clearly didn't do your work history any justice. Stating 'How do you know you have good customer service skills how do you know you're reliable' is not helpful. I can guess that the CV created by a4e doesn't actually highlight what you did and it's probably not helping you to get interviews because of the generic way in which it's worded. I think what the manager was hinting at is that on your CV you need to write in what way do you have good customer service skills. For instance - "created such and such to solve a problem which resulted in blah blah higher sales". You need to give examples of what you did and what the result was (increased sales, happy customers etc). If you can be attacked via your CV then change your CV. If someone criticises your CV ask them how it can be improved. There are times when it's wise to resist their "advice" and times when it's best to bend like a reed.

Ok, nearly at the end now lol. Sorry it's so long. Did they keep a copy of your CV? If not then any referral about your CV to a DM is only based on the word of the roach and her witness. They will always believe the roach first, even if they are lying through their teeth about what happened. What I would do if they had a copy of my CV that they had an issue with would be to issue a new CV which goes halfway to meeting their demands. Resist their demands (especially the illegal ones), but not to the point where you do yourself a disfavour. It's simply not worth it.  

I just wanted to mention as well that the crack about how the roaches would like to spend all day in the library but they have to work, I would have shot back with "Really? You want to spend all day looking for work like I do and living on a pittance? How bizarre" lol. Also the comment about if you spent less time finding out about rules and regulations you would have a job by now I would have retorted that what I do outside job search activity is none of their concern, JSA is not an hourly based benefit like UC (it's steps) and that a claimant is required to know the JSA rules. Were they stating that you shouldn't bother to know what is expected of you?  

Finally, when attacked simply state repeatedly that as far as you are concerned you have fulfilled all the requirements of the JSA Act and if they disagree then the best thing for them to do is either issue a JSD or refer it to a DM. They will either back down immediately or refer you for a sanction. There's no getting around their determination to refer you, so don't be afraid of the inevitable. You will then probably discover that it was all a bluff. If you sign on and then they start attacking you, sit back knowing that it's simply them trying to get the rise because they need to make someone else feel like the shit they actually are.

Great advice and information from Absolut!

The only problem with a Jobseeker Direction is, that a significant number of JC staff do not follow their own internal guidance.  Someone was sanctioned for not giving DWP access to their UJ account.  The case went to Tribunal, the appeal was inevitably allowed and the DMG was updated!

A member here was referred to a  6 week Workwise course with a JSD.  The internal guidance clearly states a JSD is required for every day i.e. 30 JSD's.   Thousands of people have been sanctioned with unlawful JSD's, many will have been disabled!

Claimants could legitimately take DWP to a county court on the basis that they failed to provide a duty of care.

https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t2180-catwoman-s-concerns
https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t2150-taking-dwp-to-the-county-court

Hi absolut,
I wrote a complaint about the treatment I recieved to the manager
.At my next appointment I was taken into a private room to 'discuss' my cv. I didn't let them keep my cv last week, they remembered the disclaimer I had on it. I had removed the disclaimer added my email, but partially crossed it out so they couldn't see it.
She seemed surprised that I complied. She asked me what time do I get up she wants to see if anything I do day to day can be added. I told her the time of day I get up has no relevance to a cv or applying for jobs.
She changes the subject and wants to talk about signing the consent forms again. This time I tell her I don't want to discuss it anymore, I've done nothing wrong.
She's waiting for me to discuss the complaint letter and as she's just a wc I don't mention it. She then tells me that instead of whp their sending me on to a different program for help. 45 minutes later she brings me back to my other adviser who tells the wc to tell me shes signed me on and my next appointment is in the post.
I tell them I'll wait for my next appointment and I'm here to sign on. They say I have to wait.
1 minute later the wc I complained about. Sheepishly signed me and gave me my next appointment. She didn't want to speak or look at me and couldn't get away from me quick enough. They brought me into a private room because they thought I would be discussing the complaint letter and they didn't want any other customers listening.
Thanks for the advice, next time they are making threats I'll ask them to issue me with a jsd so I'll know exactly what I'm supposed to do.

Non Deficere wrote:A member here was referred to a  6 week Workwise course with a JSD.  The internal guidance clearly states a JSD is required for every day i.e. 30 JSD's.   Thousands of people have been sanctioned with unlawful JSD's, many will have been disabled!

I hope that I did not come across as encouraging any claimant to go anywhere near asking for a JSD unless they absolutely have to. My advice to Catwoman about the JSD is less about actually getting a JSD issued and more about getting a harpy to back off.

After 5 years of non-stop abuse from roaches in my joke centre I do not lightly recommend asking for a JSD. If there is no paperwork issued at the end of an abusive meeting and no sanction referral, yet it's a dead certainty that the issue isn't going to go away then compromise on some issues is apt while others are not. If a roach stated to me that they (the DWP) had the "right" to know my email address in a snotty and arrogant manner I would ask for time to go away and research into the JSA regulations to see if the claim being made was correct. If they insist that it is correct and they won't let me sign on and leave, then I will ask for a JSD ordering me to give them my email address under threat of a sanction. It puts it on a piece of paper that I can take away and it also gives me time to research the issue. Asking for a JSD really has nothing to do with getting them to follow procedures, it's more to do with getting evidence of what they are willing to unlawfully put on a JSD. They won't follow correct procedures, ever, so I never expect it of them.  

The main point of asking for a JSD in Catwoman's situation is that it can stop the verbal abuse that she experienced dead in its tracks. Asking for a JSD in order to know exactly what is being asked for will make some roaches back down. If the roach is certain that non-compliance with a JSD will lead to a sanction they'd issue it right off the bat.  It is my experience that the vast majority of the bullies we come across inside joke centres are, in reality, deep down cowardly custards when the issue turns serious.

I understood what you meant Absolut. Your suggestion is a very good strategy!

Non Deficere wrote:I understood what you meant Absolut.  Your suggestion is a very good strategy!  

Thanks. So far I haven't had to use it myself (yet) because I tend to be able to short circuit DWP/Work Programme Advisor abuse before it goes as far as it went with Catwoman. On the Work Programme a few words said to my advisor sent her into such a hissy fit that it resulted in a complaint from me to her manager and my being moved to a far nicer advisor

Catwoman wrote:She seemed surprised that I complied.

They are inflexible and so think everyone else is. I suppose they thought you were going to fight them about it.

She asked me what time do I get up she wants to see if anything I do day to day can be added.  I  told her the time of day I get up has no relevance to a cv or applying for jobs.

Yep, JSA is steps, not hours spent per day nor at any particular hour of the day.

She changes the subject and wants to talk about signing the consent forms again.  This time I tell her I don't want to discuss it anymore, I've done nothing wrong.

Indeed you have not.

She's waiting for me to discuss the complaint letter and as she's just a wc I don't mention it. She then tells me that instead of whp their sending me on to a different program for help.

Ugh What punishment have they come up with now?

1 minute later the wc I complained about. Sheepishly signed me and gave me my next appointment. She didn't want to speak or look at me and couldn't get away from me quick enough.

I'd be asking them to move you to another advisor unless you think she's not going to try it on again? In which case sometimes it's "better the devil you know".

Thanks for the advice,  next time they are making threats I'll ask them to issue me with a jsd so I'll know exactly what I'm supposed to do.

No worries. I hope things start to calm down for you. If you need any help don't hesitate to ask. Oh and welcome to the forum