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Post by london123 on Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:00 am

Hi.
Just wandering is it just me who is getting regular calls from a job centre adviser, asking what I'm doing to find work ,I'm 63 with health issues, and awaiting an operation ,which was cancelled due to COVID-19. But the adviser last time he rang said he's going to come up with a cunning plan to get me back working. i tried to get anther sick note from my doctor but the adviser says the sick note is not valid as it for the same condition, so my doctor as given me a one-month fit note with conditions of work, so I'm still fit for work,

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Post by Caker on Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:43 am

Sorry to read that you are being harassed by this adviser.

The adviser is not right. Your sick-note is valid whether it is for the same condition or a different one.

I presume the GP has written things that need to be considered by any employer when you are in a workplace. You need to make the adviser aware of what the GP wrote, as these conditions must be considered by DWP in regard to what you can or cannot do in a job.

I doubt the adviser has a cunning plan to get you into work, unless it involves hoodwinking the prospective employer that you are fit and able and definitely not on the waiting list for an operation. Rolling Eyes

Hopefully, someone with better advice will be on the forum later.
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Post by Welfare-Champion on Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:53 am

Hi.
Just wandering is it just me who is getting regular calls from a job centre adviser, asking what I'm doing to find work ,I'm 63 with health issues, and awaiting an operation ,which was cancelled due to COVID-19. But the adviser last time he rang said he's going to come up with a cunning plan to get me back working. i tried to get anther sick note from my doctor but the adviser says the sick note is not valid as it for the same condition, so my doctor as given me a one-month fit note with conditions of work, so I'm still fit for work.

I am annoyed with your work coach!

The interviews are voluntary.

I’ve noticed a couple of DWP people on REDDIT who confirm this.

Expand this thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DWPhelp/comments/gy959i/job_centre_work_search_appointments_resume_next/?sort=new

Your interviews only become mandatory after 30/6/20 and you're issued with a mandatory notice to participate in an interview.

Provision of a legal notice to participate in an interview - Universal Credit.

K5322It is the Secretary of State who will specify the how, when and where and manner of participation in line with the obligations to notify outlined in the public law principles of fairness (see further guidance in ADM Chapter K1). From 8.10.18 the Secretary of State also has an obligation to ensure the ‘substance’ (i.e. the reason for the interview in basic terms) is notified to the claimant as well as the date, time and place and consequences of failure (see full guidance in ADM Chapter K1). This is so the claimant can prepare for the interview (for full guidance on the notification requirements and the meaning of ‘substance’ see ADM Chapter K1).

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/810645/admk5.pdf

Be aware that some Jobcentres may be promoting Work Trials in contravention of their own guidance.

There has been some furore regarding Work Trials on social media very recently.

https://www.facebook.com/imajsaclaimant1/posts/1957003127939720

https://www.justanothernumber.co.uk/post/the-rise-of-exploitative-employment-practices-in-the-post-covid-economy

DWP guidance:

https://www.gov.uk/jobcentre-plus-help-for-recruiters/work-trials

Work Trials are entirely voluntary

You do receive travel expenses from the Jobcentre


The only benefit is screening out unscrupulous employers.

Someone I know has been mandated to apply for jobs via the Jobcentre which all turned out to be a nightmare.

They found a job they fancied, it was advertised at 16hrs per week.  They arranged a WT via the Jobcentre to try and avoid the pitfalls of another unsuitable job.

She quickly found out from the staff that it was actually a zero hour contract and the average hour were 8hrs per week.

Without the information they would have signed off JSA needlessly.   Walked out of the WT.


Last edited by Welfare-Champion on Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:21 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : Add info)

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Post by london123 on Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:07 am

My son who lives in a different town with is girlfriend is 22 yrs old,  and currently on universal credit. And has not had any contact with the job centre since June, yet they are badgering me at 63 with heath conditions . i won't be volunteering for anything.

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Post by Caker on Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:09 am

london123 wrote:My son who lives in a different town with is girlfriend is 22 yrs old,  and currently on universal credit. And has not had any contact with the job centre since June, yet they are badgering me  at 63 with heath conditions . i won't be volunteering for anything.


Perhaps they see you as 'low hanging fruit', being that you could be considered vulnerable.
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Post by Welfare-Champion on Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:31 am

London123

You can make a complaint and seek advice regarding your WCA outcome.

Refusal to change job coach or re-refer for WCA
https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/14625/#69514

https://advicelocal.uk/

Edit: found another link
GOING BACK TO THE J.C
https://www.reddit.com/r/DWPhelp/comments/i8doo3/going_back_to_the_jc/

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Post by london123 on Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:44 pm

Welfare-Champion wrote:London123

You can make a complaint and seek advice regarding your WCA outcome.

Refusal to change job coach or re-refer for WCA
https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/14625/#69514

https://advicelocal.uk/

Edit: found another link
GOING BACK TO THE J.C
https://www.reddit.com/r/DWPhelp/comments/i8doo3/going_back_to_the_jc/

hi.
he is not my normal job coach, he is ringing from Leeds main job centre. I'm in Bradford.

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Post by Gallazz on Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:03 pm

Caker wrote: Perhaps they see you as 'low hanging fruit', being that you could be considered vulnerable.

That's what it sounds like to me; it's hard to imagine that the phrase "cunning plan" wasn't intended to unsettle.

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Post by Welfare-Champion on Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:23 am

london123 wrote:
Welfare-Champion wrote:London123

You can make a complaint and seek advice regarding your WCA outcome.

Refusal to change job coach or re-refer for WCA
https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/14625/#69514

https://advicelocal.uk/

Edit: found another link
GOING BACK TO THE J.C
https://www.reddit.com/r/DWPhelp/comments/i8doo3/going_back_to_the_jc/

hi.
he is not my normal job coach, he is ringing from Leeds main job centre. I'm in Bradford.

You can still make a complaint yourself or take professional help.

How to make a complaint

You will need to make a formal complaint about Universal Credit to the DWP either over the phone between 8am and 6pm, online, in person or in writing.

If you have an online Universal Credit account you should call 08003285644 and if you don't, then get in touch on 0800 328 9344.

https://makeacomplaint.dwp.gov.uk/

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Post by Caker on Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:36 am

Going off topic (sorry for that). https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/14625/#69514

It has been suggested to this lady that she might benefit from an IT course; How the heck is she meant to operate a computer (standard keyboard or mouse) when she has carpal tunnel syndrome Question geek


Last edited by Caker on Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:46 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : corrected info')
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Post by Welfare-Champion on Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:40 am

Caker wrote:Going off topic (sorry for that). https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/14625/#69514

It has been suggested to this lady that she might benefit from an IT course; How the heck is she meant to operate a computer (standard keyboard or mouse) when she has carpal tunnel syndrome Question geek

There are many outrageous suggestions made by work coaches.

I recently read that a lady aged 65 was told to apply for the army! Evil or Very Mad

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Post by Caker on Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:36 pm

Welfare-Champion wrote:
Caker wrote:Going off topic (sorry for that). https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/14625/#69514

It has been suggested to this lady that she might benefit from an IT course; How the heck is she meant to operate a computer (standard keyboard or mouse) when she has carpal tunnel syndrome Question geek

There are many outrageous suggestions made by work coaches.  

I recently read that a lady aged 65 was told to apply for the army! Evil or Very Mad

Beggars belief.
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Post by Welfare-Champion on Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:02 am

There is no requirement in law for claimants to own a telephone to receive benefits.

In these unprecedented times you may not be able to afford to maintain a landline or purchase a mobile and pay for telephone as well as Internet services.

At present you cannot visit your jobcentre unless there are exceptional circumstances.

Interviews and assessments will be done by telephone. You should not go to a Jobcentre Plus unless asked to do so for an exceptional purpose, for example to collect your Payment Exception Service vouchers.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-what-to-do-if-youre-already-getting-benefits

The work availability requirement

Introduction

J3110 A work availability requirement is a requirement that a claimant be available for work1. 1 WR Act 12, s 18(1)
J3111 To be available for work, a claimant must be
1. able and
2. willing immediately to take up paid work or more paid work or better-paid work1. 1 WR Act 12, s 18(2)

Willing and able immediately to take up paid work

J3113 In order to demonstrate that they are willing and able immediately to take up paid work, claimants should

1. be physically able to take up work within the appropriate timescale
2. be contactable (through mail, e-mail or phone) for interviews or work 3.be willing and able to give up any commitments which may interfere with their ability to start work
4.attend all interviews that have been offered to them

5.consider their appearance and behaviour to ensure this does not reduce their prospects of finding paid work.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/878192/admj3.pdf


Claimants can be directed/mandated to ring the Jobcentre from a public phone between a specific timeframe, but this must be reasonable in the circumstances.

There are very few working public phones these days and many are not accessible, in order or private.

Amendments made to this post: https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t4557-work-coach-ringing-me#13003


Last edited by Welfare-Champion on Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:24 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Caker on Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:09 am

Welfare-Champion wrote: Claimants can be directed/mandated to ring the Jobcentre from a public phone between a specific timeframe, but this must be reasonable in the circumstances.

I did not know that study (every day is a school day)
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Post by Pintel on Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:01 pm

Caker wrote:
Welfare-Champion wrote: Claimants can be directed/mandated to ring the Jobcentre from a public phone between a specific timeframe, but this must be reasonable in the circumstances.

I did not know that study (every day is a school day)

I wonder if anyone has challenged this direction/mandation by the JCP🚽? As already mentioned the availability of functioning payphones, the GDPR of giving personal information out while in an booth. As well as not everyone is comfortable on using a telephone. I could go on about the difficulties of recording important information while in a phonebooth.

Surely an email or postal letter is a suitable alternative?🕊🤔
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Post by Welfare-Champion on Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:59 am

Pintel wrote:
Caker wrote:
Welfare-Champion wrote: Claimants can be directed/mandated to ring the Jobcentre from a public phone between a specific timeframe, but this must be reasonable in the circumstances.

I did not know that study (every day is a school day)

I wonder if anyone has challenged this direction/mandation by the JCP🚽? As already mentioned the availability of functioning payphones, the GDPR of giving personal information out while in an booth. As well as not everyone is comfortable on using a telephone. I could go on about the difficulties of recording important information while in a phonebooth.

Surely an email or postal letter is a suitable alternative?🕊🤔

I very doubt claimants will be mandated to use public phones, but you never know in DWP Land!

Public phones/booths are not the most hygienic of places to visit, so you would need to take along bottle of bleach and your marigolds  Shocked in the unlikely event you are required to contact DWP via a public phone!

UC guidance for interviews
After the first telephone work search review, work coaches should tailor the interventions using a mixture of phone and digital channels. Work coaches have the flexibility to decide whether a digital work search review is appropriate. This depends on:
•the claimant’s digital skills
•whether they have recorded their activity in their account. Work coaches must explain to claimants:
•the importance of recording work search activity on their account
•that between work search reviews by phone appointments, their account will be reviewed for work search activities

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/681475/response/1625493/attach/4/FOI2020%2042056%20Spotlight%20on%20First%20commitments%20by%20phone%20appointment.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

There is no guidance for JSA claimants, hopefully we will know more shortly.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/guidance_issued_to_work_coaches#incoming-1606859

I don’t think DWP would ever consider postal interventions for non-postal claimants.


Last edited by Welfare-Champion on Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:10 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : added links)

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Post by Welfare-Champion on Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:20 pm

London 123,

Hope things ease up for you soon.

Keep us posted please.

Here's to a quiet life for all the members here including myself! lol!

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Post by london123 on Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:13 pm


Just received a message to look in my journal, Sam as sent me a job to apply for, 8-hour night shifts in a warehouse, he states hope you will consider this vacancy Robert. Even though I've told him I'm looking for part-time work 16 to 20 hours. Which it states in my work agreement.

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Post by Welfare-Champion on Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:46 am

london123 wrote:
Just received a message to look in my journal,  Sam as sent me a job to apply for, 8-hour night shifts in a warehouse, he states hope you will consider this vacancy Robert. Even though I've told him I'm looking for part-time work 16 to 20 hours. Which it states in my work agreement.

You can ignore requests to apply for jobs.  You only have to apply for jobs that comply with your claimant commitment and you’ve been mandated to do so.

Universal Credit (very simialr to JSA)
Informing the claimant of a particular vacancy
K3055
Legislation does not prescribe how a claimant is to be informed of a particular vacancy. The claimant may be informed
1.personally when attending the UC outlet or elsewhere or
2.by letter or
3.by telephone or
4.by electronic means (such as by text or email if agreed with the claimant as the preferred method of contact) or
5.by setting the requirement on the Claimant Commitment or
6.by setting a ‘to do’ in the claimants on line journal.
Note 1: The most important thing is that however the claimant is notified of the vacancy, a record that all the criteria in K3054 have been met is kept in the claimant history should it be required for evidence purposes later should a decision maker be required to make a sanction determination or in the event of an appeal K3054 have been met is kept in the claimant history should it be required for evidence purposes later should a decision maker be required to make a sanction determination or in the event of an appeal.
Note 2: If the claimant is informed by a requirement on the Claimant Commitment or by a letter a copy should be retained for 3 years.
Note 3: A failure to record the relevant evidence could result in a sanction not being able to be imposed where appropriate. See guidance on the public law principles of fairness in ADM Chapter K1 – Sanctions general principles.

London 123: If you have a health condition or disability that limits your capability for work, the Department for Work and Pensions will work with you to best support you during this time. You may be asked to do work search and work preparation activities that are reasonable for your condition and situation.  All requirements are agreed with your work coach and you won’t be asked to do something you’re not capable of.

If your health condition or disability improves or gets worse, what is asked of you will change to match your new situation.
https://www.understandinguniversalcredit.gov.uk/new-to-universal-credit/your-responsibilities/

Note to all

Universal Credit: Get ready for more harassment and #BenefitSanctions, as Jobcentres to open on Saturdays and weekdays 8am till 8pm from November

https://mrfrankzola.wordpress.com/2020/08/26/saturdayjobcentreharassment/

So much for a quiet life!  Make the most of it while you can.


Last edited by Welfare-Champion on Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:49 am; edited 2 times in total

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Post by london123 on Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:13 am

Yes I know I can ignore the job which I have, it's just the principle of him sending me full time jobs, when I am looking for part-time.

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Post by Welfare-Champion on Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:30 am

london123 wrote:Yes I know I can ignore the job which I have, it's just the principle of him sending me full time jobs, when I am looking for part-time.

If you keep some examples of inapropriate jobs that have you have been asked to apply for you can make a complaint under the Disablity Descrimination Act.

I meant to add this above.  I'm a wee bit tired this morning!

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Post by Caker on Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:04 am

Getting back to the info in the link (sorry to go off topic)

https://mrfrankzola.wordpress.com/2020/08/26/saturdayjobcentreharassment/

Could claimants really be mandated to attend the JC on a Saturday after dark? pale

My JC is in a slightly dodgy area and my family agree that it is scary after the shops close even in summer. JC workers have access to a private car park immediately outside the building, so they are not at so much risk as other people visiting the building.
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Post by Welfare-Champion on Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:24 am

Hi Caker,

Can I hand the batton to you/others by starting a new thread related to Frank's post?

Caker wrote:Getting back to the info in the link (sorry to go off topic)

https://mrfrankzola.wordpress.com/2020/08/26/saturdayjobcentreharassment/

Could claimants really be mandated to attend the JC on a Saturday after dark? pale

My JC is in a slightly dodgy area and my family agree that it is scary after the shops close even in summer. JC workers have access to a private car park immediately outside the building, so they are not at so much risk as other people visiting the building.

We don't know exactly what is going to happen once the thousands of new Work Coaches become active and JCP opening hours changing.

I think potential hassassment may apply to UC as well as legacy benefit claimants.

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Post by london123 on Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:53 am

I think they try to piss people off, rather than help them. Thinking they will try harder to get a job,

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Post by Caker on Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:10 am

Welfare-Champion wrote:Hi Caker,

Can I hand the batton to you/others by starting a new thread related to Frank's post?

Caker wrote:Getting back to the info in the link (sorry to go off topic)

https://mrfrankzola.wordpress.com/2020/08/26/saturdayjobcentreharassment/

Could claimants really be mandated to attend the JC on a Saturday after dark? pale

My JC is in a slightly dodgy area and my family agree that it is scary after the shops close even in summer. JC workers have access to a private car park immediately outside the building, so they are not at so much risk as other people visiting the building.

We don't know exactly what is going to happen once the thousands of new Work Coaches become active and JCP opening hours changing.

I think potential hassassment may apply to UC as well as legacy benefit claimants.


New thread about this topic has now been started.
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