List some strategies to avoid having to take part in the Restart 3 way call.

Archangel wrote:I heard that people on the Work Programme, who stopped claiming benefits, then went back on benefits, a few months later, had to still continue their stint on the Work Programme. It was only people who stopped claiming benefits before they were referred to the Work Programme, and who went back on benefits later, that had to wait 24 months before they could be referred to it.

Is this the same with Restart?

Yes, I think it is. I didn't used to think so, but I've realised that the 365 days on Restart is in a contract between the DWP and the provider, not the claimant and the DWP. I don't see why it wouldn't simply continue to run for 365 days whether the claimant was on benefits or not. JSA to UC would void the JSA598 and any MANs as the SAPOE Regs would no longer exist, but they are not mandating meetings anyway. So far they've all been voluntary.

As for the "consent to future earnings data" from an employer I've advised claimant's not sign them without first obtaining the employer's permission. It's rude and presumptuous to sign consent for someone else to be approached by a company that isn't anything other than a glorified temp agency.

Here is the JSA rule about being re-notified:

If the award of JSA ends and then the claimant returns to JSA, the claimant has to be re-notified of all the requirements of participation in a relevant scheme as per DMG 34867 for the new claim. Any notifications issued on the previous claim cannot apply to any failures to comply that occur in the new award. This is regardless of whether the claimant is referred to the same provider from the previous claim and regardless of how short the break in the claim.
1 JSA (SAPOE) Regs, reg 6(2); 2 reg 6(3)

Thanks.

If jsa claim ends then claimants won't return to jsa, they will be under UC as i understand it.

does the provider contract extend over both benefits? i have asked provider and jsa but never had a conclusive answer from either of them

That's a good question.

Archangel wrote:That's a good question.

when i asked "is it possible to go on restart twice?" they avoided answering every time.

"ask on your next such and such"

"ill ask my manager and get back to you"

a few were honest with "I don't actually know"

(if it were possible they would get 2x referral fee for each participant - bearing in mind that restart has different guidelines for jsa and uc claimants so i doubt they could resume when a jsa claim closed and then a uc claim started)

mandy tori wrote:does the provider contract extend over both benefits?

I see no reason why the DWP wouldn't simply recommence attendance at Restart again as soon as the UC claim is made from JSA. The attitude of the DWP is "we can do what we like". This is what a roach said to me on Tuesday.

Absolut wrote:

mandy tori wrote:does the provider contract extend over both benefits?

I see no reason why the DWP wouldn't simply recommence attendance at Restart again as soon as the UC claim is made from JSA. The attitude of the DWP is "we can do what we like". This is what a roach said to me on Tuesday.

difference in restart guidelines is a reasonable question for my next visit, shall hit them up on my next visits to both

they issued you the mandate for 3 way referral yet?

mandy tori wrote:they issued you the mandate for 3 way referral yet?

Nope. They are up to something though. I won't find out what it is until 8 November.

I audio record them on my landline speaker phone using a mobile phone app and works a treat. Providing, I remember to press the record button

In their offices, i also use a mobile recording app. Have a nice library of all their conversations to be used against them at the right time.

"we can do what we like". This is what a roach said to me on Tuesday.   And! how's that working out so far for you Roach Vile ?

Ask them, is it ok if you inform the press and MP's about that little remark and maybe run it by a lawyer while your at it.

Archangel wrote:That's a good question.

you are only capable of talking to one person at a time.

You have hearing problem.

You have an ear infection so avoiding prolonged use of phone.

Their a pain in the arse to listen to.

jobberpw wrote:"we can do what we like". This is what a roach said to me on Tuesday.   And! how's that working out so far for you Roach Vile ?

Ask them, is it ok if you inform the press and MP's about that little remark and maybe run it by a lawyer while your at it.

It was in response to my asking, "isn't it the case that a group session can't be mandated?". The JCP employee (not the usual one we see) was unable to say exactly what the group session was about that only Mr Absolut has been told to attend next week instead of a WSR. The mindless response to my question was "we can do what we like".

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/123502/response/300482/attach/html/4/3b%20Group%20Information%20Sessions.pdf.html

By law claimants cannot be mandated to attend a Group Information Session by means of a Jobseeker Direction,  unless the Personal Adviser can demonstrate that attendance at the Group Information Session will:
  assist the claimant to find employment; or
  improve the claimant to find employment.

(their emphasis)

The session must not be used as a substitute for the flexible one-to-one interventions, or one-to-one Jobsearch Reviews.

There is no WSR booked for him next week either immediately before or immediately after the group session.  

Labour market declarations
23. Unless they have already done so on that day, the claimant must sign labour market declarations at every attendance.  This is so that if they Fail to Attend a future Flexible Intervention or Jobsearch Review, their claim will only be terminated from the last day they actually attended.

(my emphasis)

No LMD signature since March 2020.

The Catwoman wrote:They already got my national insurance number, the wc gave it to them when they were booking the 3 way call.
There already not following procedure.

How are you Getting on with restart catwomen?

I'm still not in it yet. WC wasn't in this week, thank god, and when a different WC said am I on restart I just said I am🤭.

Here's a link to a useful thread about the 3xway calls.
FOI 2020/83239 'National Telephony hub' (11/01/2021). 🤫


https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t4849-dwp-3-way-conversation-with-claimants#16097


. 'Phony' seem to sum up the Retread scheme

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/phony

The Catwoman wrote:I'm still not in it yet. WC wasn't in this week, thank god, and when a different WC said am I on restart I just said I am🤭.

I'm hoping silence is still bliss for you The Catwoman regarding the jobcentre?

If your work roach asks about how Restart is going on your next appointment then just say (with an Ironic smile). Same as the government says "worse than doing nothing" and laugh.

It got me through.

The rest was stress, hard research work on here and the joy of all sanction appeals from the DWP being overturned in my/our favour with an apology. In the quickest time possible now. ( no benefit loss with help from local mp, getting things speeded up) )

I should follow up with maladministration complaints and maleficence in office but it's just too much for one girl again!
https://www.lawtonslaw.co.uk/resources/misfeasance-in-public-office/

When a WC asks me how Restart is going I follow Oneman's advice. The WC gets all awkward looking when I tell them "worse than doing nothing" and asks me no more. I'm not complaining but I still find it odd the WC thinks I'm on Restart nearly 6months after they sacked me.

When on the old JSA work programme (1 year then 2 years) the job centre would have nothing to do with you while on the programme. This was written into the regulations. The new regulations do not state this but you now have to attend the job centre. The work roaches still follow the same procedure as last time unless restart raises a doubt. Then they have to engage about that.
The reason is the last time the work programme was left to themselves they stole a shit load of money from the DWP and made up non-existent participants to get extra payments. They nearly got away with it as well until a few members on here raised a few questions.
Also when you're on the restart programme you are classed as employed so you do not show on the unemployment statistics. So the more people on restart the lower the employment rate. clever eh? Ask your work coach about it. I bet they go silent.

Ignatius wrote:When a WC asks me how Restart is going I follow Oneman's advice. The WC gets all awkward looking when I tell them "worse than doing nothing" and asks me no more. I'm not complaining but I still find it odd the WC thinks I'm on Restart nearly 6months after they sacked me.

Mr A's work coach now wants him to tell him when all his appointments are. He wants to keep "a record" of them. When Mr A told him to get them from the provider then, the work coach went into a sulk and refused to speak to him.

The new regulations do not state this but you now have to attend the job centre.

We were on the JSA WP from 2014-2016 and the DWP made us sign on every fortnight. The Work Programme took the same job search information the JCP did, doubling up on it. We had, in effect, 2 work coaches assigned to us on the WP and 2 work coaches assigned to us in the JCP to take the same information and to do nothing at all to help. Wow, what value for money. Mr A was working part time and we got a very low rate of JSA. We had to fit his work commitments in around both a JCP appointment and a WP appointment. It was mental.

Now they've referred us to Restart, separately, under our own individual NIs and there will be 2 Restart "employment advisors" assigned to us and 1 work coach, all 3 of whom want to take the same job search evidence off us and nothing else for what is less money each than they pay to single claimants.

The work roaches still follow the same procedure as last time unless restart raises a doubt. Then they have to engage about that.

In the guidance for JSA they are to send a compliance doubt to the JSA Team in Dundee, not to a JCP work coach. Raise this if a JCP work coach attempts to implement a sanction under JSA for Restart when the doubt is to be looked at by the JSA Team in Dundee.

The reason is the last time the work programme was left to themselves they stole a shit load of money from the DWP and made up non-existent participants to get extra payments. They nearly got away with it as well until a few members on here raised a few questions.

How did they make up non-existent participants when all referrals were, according to the DWP, sent to the provider via the DWP's own computer system by the DWP?  

Think you might be right about still having to go into the job centre once a fortnight when on the work programme. Absolut. I do remember them saying once you are on the work programme you are no longer with the job centre though. I think what they were trying to say was if you are on the work programme you are no longer classed as unemployed.

Here is the info on the work programme fraud. Peopleplus (Restart):
In 2011, Staffline Group acquired EOS, a small work programme provider in the West Midlands.[2][3] This was followed in 2014 with the acquisition of Avanta,[4][5] one of the largest prime work programme providers in the UK, and finally in 2015 the purchase of another prime provider A4e.[6] In 2015 the 3 companies were merged to form PeoplePlus.[7]

In sentencing, Judge Angela Morris said there had been a "systematic practice" of compiling bogus files over a "considerable period of time", behaviour which she described as "appallingly cavalier".

This is how they stole the money.

"A4e staff jailed for DWP back-to-work training fraud"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-32139244

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/spending-review/10146659/5bn-Work-Programme-worse-than-doing-nothing.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34588859

[quote="Absolut"]

In the guidance for JSA they are to send a compliance doubt to the JSA Team in Dundee, not to a JCP work coach. Raise this if a JCP work coach attempts to implement a sanction under JSA for Restart when the doubt is to be looked at by the JSA Team in Dundee.

9.26. Once completed, you must send the JSA603 to the following email address: dundee.restartjsaibdoubtteam@dwp.gov.uk.
This is correct for people on JSA.
There is a whole different chapter for UC. That does not include the dundee reference. They only send the UCD603 form to a decision maker.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/restart-provider-guidance/chapter-9-raising-a-compliance-doubt

I sadly can still remember my last misadventure on the WP and eve back then still had to attend the joke shop every 2 weeks. Reason being, non what so ever .

I was mistaken because I only ever attended my 5 different work programmes for less than a couple of days for each one, before not going back. I might Have done a week or two on the first one before they took me canoeing and at that point, I lost hope with any help with job/work vacancies or help and support so I stopped going. The 1 year/2 year avanta work programme thing lasted years and took 5 years to get them to tribunal but I/we won my £16 pound back in the end and got the legislation changed to make DM decision time as quick as possible. While avoiding 3 years of the work programme.
That was cool if you can cope with the money loss. £16 all in all with hardship payments on JSA.

UC certainly changed that! Your money is stopped forever unless you conform or get the sanction overturned. That can take time.  That is why we use our MPs to speed things up. Otherwise, they will drag things out until you can't afford to lose any more benefits and you have to cave in.
They know this and abuse this.

My "how do they create fake participants when the DWP sends the referral" was to nudge people towards the fact that the only way for a provider to be able to create fake participants is when the provider is allowed to create their own PRaP records.

Restart providers have 6 licences for the PRaP software. That software is on their computers, not on the DWP computers. The providers fill in the PRAP screen themselves during the warm handover call. I heard Maximus doing it. The DWP did not share any data with them after the call was over.

For the claim form (referral) to activate the provider needs to insert a start date. They have 40 working days to insert a confirmed start.

How does the provider get a confirmed start and who checks that it's a genuine start? The guidance even says they can see a claimant a few times and then backdate the start date in PRaP if they haven't entered one yet. No chance of fraud there then.