List some strategies to avoid having to take part in the Restart 3 way call.

List some strategies to avoid having to take part in the Restart 3 way call.

Is not taking your phone to the call meeting a good strategy?

I hear that the conference call is "patched" through to your phone. Is that true? And what technology is used?

Seems needlessly complicated when all the jobcentre needs to do is let you use one of their landline phones.

Archangel wrote:List some strategies to avoid having to take part in the Restart 3 way call.

Is not taking your phone to the call meeting a good strategy?

I hear that the conference call is "patched" through to your phone. Is that true? And what technology is used?

Seems needlessly complicated when all the jobcentre needs to do is let you use one of their landline phones.

What does ‘patched’ mean, in this context please. Not really familiar with the tech?

It's a word used in radio communication circles, to describe how a radio call between two people, can be made to include a radio call from a third person who wants to join the conversation.

on my 3 way call the work coach dialed into providers microsoft teams then dialed my mobile phone number - he could mute my phone out of the conversation which means i didn't get a full recording :-(

hope that helps

mandy tori wrote:on my 3 way call the work coach dialed into providers microsoft teams then dialed my mobile phone number - he could mute my phone out of the conversation which means i didn't get a full recording :-(

hope that helps

All the more reason to leave your phone recording away in your pocket and have the 3way call on the JCP phone on speaker methinks

my phone has a custom rom flashed and it auto records all phone calls

external recording would need speaker phone use in jcp, they wouldn't do that imo and would capture too much background noise

not really a strategy as to avoid the scheme per say. but to avoid them bullying you (so far working for me on ib jsa)

Ask if it is mandatory (mainly for portal and signatures) on anything they suggest because the bulk of things they will have you doing are voluntary.

Never sign their paperwork (i don't get asked to sign for travel expenses - they photograph my bus tickets - i have seen others mention having to sign for them, ask if its mandatory ;-) )

Don't use their portal, it isn't mandatory, i believe it asks you to upload a CV so they can "review" it.
you don't want them having your CV at all. they use it to find work with their own "secret jobs" providers, the kind that like you to gain work experience via unpaid labour..

Thanks.

I think I'll stop my JSA claim and sign back on in a few months. Or rather, sign on to UC, seeing as JSA is being phased out. I have enough money saved to scrape by till then.

Archangel wrote:Thanks.

I think I'll stop my JSA claim and sign back on in a few months. Or rather, sign on to UC, seeing as JSA is being phased out. I have enough money saved to scrape by till then.

you risk being put on restart under UC which sounds far worse than jsa, the migration is still on trial phase and is a way off, if you were to close claim i would get jsa refered and when they have you as a starter then close claim and move to UC.

UC journal use is worth avoiding as you can't go back to jsa, worth considering

My understanding is that if you come off JSA when you need to claim benefits again you are automatically put on UC.

UC will as you say be worse, but when you start it fresh, you can't be referred to Restart until after a year. So it will give me some breathing space.

Archangel wrote:My understanding is that if you come off JSA when you need to claim benefits again you are automatically put on UC.

UC will as you say be worse, but when you start it fresh, you can't be referred to Restart until after a year. So it will give me some breathing space.

i was on the understanding that it was 9 months for new claimants, i have already asked my providers EA if i can be put on it twice and they don't answer. hence id start restart if intending to switch to UC

UC on restart is what its designed for. delay for a year imo you might as well do on jsa, you will be able to avoid work experience at the very least, UC people get "topped up" as it doesn't stop their claim in doing so

i will point out yet again, UC journal use will be worse than jsa restart in my opinion

My understanding is that if you come off JSA when you need to claim benefits again you are automatically put on UC.

IB JSA closure means no return to IB JSA. Only UC can be claimed. However, if you work full time for 2 years you can claim New Style JSA. If it was "auto UC" it would be making people claim a means tested benefit when they are entitled to claim a contributory one. NS JSA lasts for 6 months and anyone on NS JSA is not eligible to be referred to Restart during those 6 months. However, their time on NS JSA is knocked off the 9 months eligibility criteria, so 3 months into a UC claim they become eligible to be referred to Restart.

when you start it fresh, you can't be referred to Restart until after a year. So it will give me some breathing space.

It's 9 months and the provider documents are not legislation. It says eligible to be referred. It doesn't say "can't". The DWP can be very tricky where language is concerned. Please don't substitute "can't" for the word "eligible". At any time the DWP could change the wording from 9 months to 1 month.

Thanks for the information.

thanks for clarification Absolut

They changed 3 months to look for a job in your specified area when first making a claim, to 4 weeks, so they do change the goalposts when it suits them even if the long-term result has no positive outcome.

Archangel, wot mandy tori and Absolut said about Restart.

In your understandable desire to avoid it, think baby and bathwater, battles and wars. Restart won't be for the rest of your claim, UC will be. When I was referred to Restart it was deleterious to my normal sunny outlook on life. The will I/won't I get sanctioned saga over refusing to sign provider paperwork was immensely stressful, not to mention time consuming. It was still preferable to being on UC. Sit tight on your JSA, you may never get referred to the dreaded Restart. If you are referred, declining to put you pawprint on their paperwork may see you get a Restart-lite experience. UC will get you an electronic ball & chain disguised as a journal, a different sanctions regime and a whole lot more hassle.

Thanks Ignatius.

I have a 3 way call appointment next week. Will they give me the documents to sign then, or at a later appointment?

And how long after the 3 way call appointment, if I did sign the documents, would Restart start? Would it start immediately? Not that I am planning to sign them, just curious.

I just found this FOI request to the DWP by someone asking them about (among other things) the Regulation 5 notice regarding JSA Restart:

“Please direct me to the legislation that states neither the DWP nor the provider is required to issue a Regulation 5 notice with a start date on it before mandating JSA claimants into participating in a 3 way call with a SAPOE provider, to take place in a job centre during a work search review, and if they do not, that they will be sanctioned.”

Here is the DWP’s response, which avoids answering this question:

"We confirm that we hold the information you have requested. You asked for information regarding the warm handover call for the Restart Scheme. It might be helpful to explain the referral process to the Restart Scheme. Prior to the referral, and during a routine Work Search Review Intervention, Jobcentre Plus work coaches will:

 discuss the Restart Scheme with the claimant and explain how it can help them with their individual work-related barriers and move them closer to finding work
 check that the claimant is eligible and suitable
 explain that a sanction may apply, and their payments may be affected if they do not participate in the mandatory parts of the Restart Scheme
 explain that the next step will be a handover call with the provider where they will be given the opportunity to ask further questions about the Restart Scheme and how the provider will help them and advise this call is mandatory.

The work coach will then book the ‘Restart Scheme referral and handover’ appointment. This is a 20-minute mandatory appointment where the warm handover call takes place between the work coach, claimant, and provider.

This appointment will be booked instead of the claimant’s next regular work search review.

The work coach will then issue the claimant with the following letters:

 JSA594 Invite to Work Search Review - Restart Scheme, and
 JSA596 Restart Scheme – 3-way call

During the first five minutes of the referral appointment and warm handover call, before inviting the provider onto the call, the work coach must:

complete the eligibility and suitability checks
ensure the claimant has not had any recent change of circumstances that would mean the scheme is no longer appropriate, and
undertake any Business as Usual Work search Reviews.

All elements of the 20-minute intervention are mandatory so if the claimant does not attend then Decision Making and Appeals (DMA) action should be considered.

If the provider or work coach are unable to join the call, it must be cancelled, and a new 20-minute flexible appointment and warm handover call should be booked.

If the claimant fails to attend the appointment or take part in the warm handover call without good reason, DMA action should be considered.

The purpose of the warm handover call is not pre-selection for the scheme. During the call the following actions should be taken:

 the work coach should explain the role of the provider and the purpose and benefits of the Restart Scheme
 the provider then discusses what they offer and how they can support the claimant to develop their skills and move closer to work
 claimants can ask questions about the Restart Scheme
 any complex needs or vulnerabilities that the claimant may have must be discussed so the provider knows how best to support the claimant, so they can consider any required adjustments
 providers will share their contact details with the claimant."

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/879341/response/2107792/attach/3/Dawson%20T%20Response%20FOI2022%2061700.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

Archangel wrote:Thanks Ignatius.

I have a 3 way call appointment next week. Will they give me the documents to sign then, or at a later appointment?

And how long after the 3 way call appointment, if I did sign the documents, would Restart start? Would it start immediately? Not that I am planning to sign them, just curious.

My first appointment was 3 days after the handover. The provider is expected to see you asap. You are free to rearrange this meeting with them. I can't remember if I needed to sign any forms at the JCP. The issue of signing, or not signing, provider paperwork will not arise until the 1st time you physically meet the provider.

for me they don't ask to sign any forms at jcp, they ask you on first face to face with provider to sign the induction they explain to you (fire exits and other trivial stuff) i declined to sign that, the next face to face has a diagnostic to find your barriers to finding work, you can find out what questions to expect on a previous FOI of their diagnostic from whatdotheyknow- they differ per provider. after the diagnostic interview they ask you to sign the action plan.

have a read through the providers guidelines prior to each face to face, not signing the induction had the manager called out immediately for me, he said that my work coach would be informed which i agreed is the case (its in their guidelines) but it also isn't a sanction doubt (they have to inform jcp if client refuses to sign their paperwork and note what was given as reason, i stated "no reason given")

non of this avoids the 3 way call however, i had a MAN letter to attend mine so i attended :-/

Is the fire exit signature just for the Induction period, i.e. while you are in the building that day? I expect it is.

Did you sign the action plan?

Archangel wrote:Did you also not sign the action plan?

i dont sign any provider's paperwork, that exactly what ive told them

i print my name in the sign in book during face to face appointments, thats it..

Ignatius wrote:

My first appointment was 3 days after the handover. The provider is expected to see you asap. You are free to rearrange this meeting with them. I can't remember if I needed to sign any forms at the JCP. The issue of signing, or not signing, provider paperwork will not arise until the 1st time you physically meet the provider.

Did you sign any forms at the meeting with the provider or did you refuse? And if you refused, what reason did you give, and what was their reaction to this?

mandy tori wrote:

i dont sign any provider's paperwork, that exactly what ive told them

i print my name in the sign in book during face to face appointments, thats it..

What was the reason you gave for not signing? And what was the result of not doing so? Are you not on Restart because of not signing, or did they put you on it anyway?

And what do you mean by "print" your name?

i gave "no reason given" for not signing

printing my name as in signing into the building's signing book they use in event of a fire to make sure they don't leave people inside, its not a signature

i dont understand

Are you not on Restart because of not signing, or did they put you on it anyway?

i am on restart due to jcp referral, i have not signed anything with a signature.