JSA Sanction information.

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Re: JSA Sanction information.

Post by Non Deficere on Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:00 pm

oneman wrote:
Non Deficere wrote:The main consideration is your rent.

No income At council? Never done that.
Blew the huge national grid last week with our cooker and they had to do a emergency repair as no electrician or npower could touch it.

Shame It also blew the pre pay meter above the huge main fuse and we now have no screen on the led display that records meter readings but we only had 1.25 on last week and it has not cut off yet!!!!Shocked Laughing Laughing Laughing  not our fault.  It's normally about £10 per week.

If the CA are right, you will have to wait around 5+ weeks before you receive your rent money.

Ring your HB office to explain the situation asap.


Last edited by Non Deficere on Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:16 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: JSA Sanction information.

Post by Non Deficere on Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:41 pm

Oneman,

As a matter of urgency please share your draft mandatory reconsideration privately together with the supporting evidence i.e. your JSag and your jobsearch records for the period in doubt please.

Many thanks!
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Re: JSA Sanction information.

Post by oneman on Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:16 pm

Non Deficere wrote:Oneman

As a matter of urgency please share your draft mandatory reconsideration with the supporting evidence i.e. your JSag and your jobsearch records for the period in doubt please. ( I might need some help with that please but it probably will just be a read over and some opinions if you would change anything.

Many thanks!

Apparently I need to get the DM reply in writing before I can do that. Thanks, Even though I know the "disallowed" out come. The mandatory Reconsideration has not been written yet but I'm sure we can come up with a good one. I know there is a basic template on CPAG and all the rest is my evidence and pointing out the legislation and case law to the DM.

I have not got round to the official complaint about not having a signed claimant commitment yet (this could be a clincher in the overall outcome). I thought I would leave that complaint till Half hour before closing tomorrow at the jobcentre. Laughing

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Re: JSA Sanction information.

Post by Non Deficere on Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:29 am

oneman wrote:
Non Deficere wrote:Oneman

As a matter of urgency please share your draft mandatory reconsideration with the supporting evidence i.e. your JSag and your jobsearch records for the period in doubt please. ( I might need some help with that please but it probably will just be a read over and some opinions if you would change anything.

Many thanks!

Can we do this today and get it scanned via the Jobcentre. Dependant on the circumstances of the case we can submit a complaint too!

Apparently I need to get the DM reply in writing before I can do that. Thanks, Even though I know the "disallowed" out come. The mandatory Reconsideration has not been written yet but I'm sure we can come up with a good one. I know there is a basic template on CPAG and all the rest is my evidence and pointing out the legislation and case law to the DM.

You can start your MR along the lines....

Further to the decision made on [date] to disallow my JSA [from] - [to], please find my dispute (known as a Mandatory Reconsideration) as follows.....


I have not got round to the official complaint about not having a signed claimant commitment yet (this could be a clincher in the overall outcome). I thought I would leave that complaint till Half hour before closing tomorrow at the jobcentre. Laughing

You don't need a CC to receive JSA. An old style JSA CC is a Jobseeker's Agreement for the purpose of claiming JSA.
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Re: JSA Sanction information.

Post by oneman on Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:28 am

Non Deficere wrote:
oneman wrote:
Non Deficere wrote:Oneman

As a matter of urgency please share your draft mandatory reconsideration with the supporting evidence i.e. your JSag and your jobsearch records for the period in doubt please. ( I might need some help with that please but it probably will just be a read over and some opinions if you would change anything.

Many thanks!

Can we do this today and get it scanned via the Jobcentre.  Dependant on the circumstances of the case we can submit a complaint too!

Apparently I need to get the DM reply in writing before I can do that. Thanks, Even though I know the "disallowed" out come. The mandatory Reconsideration has not been written yet but I'm sure we can come up with a good one. I know there is a basic template on CPAG and all the rest is my evidence and pointing out the legislation and case law to the DM.

You can start your MR along the lines....

Further to the decision made on [date] to disallow my JSA [from] - [to], please find my dispute (known as a Mandatory Reconsideration) as follows.....


I have not got round to the official complaint about not having a signed claimant commitment yet (this could be a clincher in the overall outcome). I thought I would leave that complaint till Half hour before closing tomorrow at the jobcentre. Laughing

You don't need a CC to receive JSA.  An old style JSA CC is a Jobseeker's Agreement for the purpose of claiming JSA.

Yes I can do this today and share but I do not have written confirmation about the DM or even who he /she is.
I think I will do a separate complaint about the CC as this further highlights the incompetent of staff and management at the jobcentre.

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Re: JSA Sanction information.

Post by Non Deficere on Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:08 pm

Oneman wrote:Yes I can do this today and share but I do not have written confirmation about the DM or even who he /she is.
I think I will do a separate complaint about the CC as this further highlights the incompetent of staff and management at the jobcentre.

The notice was issued on the date LMS and JSAPs were updated.  We do not have to wait 5 days to receive a letter.  Hopefully your MR is in my inbox now!
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Re: JSA Sanction information.

Post by oneman on Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:35 pm

Non Deficere wrote:
Oneman wrote:Yes I can do this today and share but I do not have written confirmation about the DM or even who he /she is.
I think I will do a separate complaint about the CC as this further highlights the incompetent of staff and management at the jobcentre.

The notice was issued on the date LMS and JSAPs were updated.  We do not have to wait 5 days to receive a letter.  Hopefully your MR is in my inbox now!
not yet but I have just sent you a email.

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Re: JSA Sanction information.

Post by Non Deficere on Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:47 pm

oneman wrote:
Non Deficere wrote:
Oneman wrote:Yes I can do this today and share but I do not have written confirmation about the DM or even who he /she is.
I think I will do a separate complaint about the CC as this further highlights the incompetent of staff and management at the jobcentre.

The notice was issued on the date LMS and JSAPs were updated.  We do not have to wait 5 days to receive a letter.  Hopefully your MR is in my inbox now!
not yet but I have just sent you a email.

Thanks!

Can you send me the first draft of your MR, which would be very helpful.

I need the number of steps your JSag states vs what your actually did.

Many thanks!

I have emailed you!
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Re: JSA Sanction information.

Post by Absolut on Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:34 am

The last time we signed on for JSA I offered our printed out job search evidence to the worker who signed us on and he said he didn't need to see it, they know we are doing all we can. Shocked

I'm shocked at the disparities between one job centre and another simply based on whichever mental headcase roach you get.
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Re: JSA Sanction information.

Post by oneman on Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:52 am

Absolut wrote:The last time we signed on for JSA I offered our printed out job search evidence to the worker who signed us on and he said he didn't need to see it, they know we are doing all we can. Shocked

I'm shocked at the disparities between one job centre and another simply based on whichever mental headcase roach you get.

Where do you live I'm moving. Laughing

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Re: JSA Sanction information.

Post by Non Deficere on Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:19 am

I would suggest that JCP staff are under pressure to get X number of people to migrate naturally to Full Digital Service UC.  People who claim extra payments due to disabilities or claim Tax credits are likely to lose their entitlement to transitional protection if they are migrated naturally rather than managed.

See: https://www.lbbd.gov.uk/sites/default/files/attachments/Universal-Credit-full-service-a-guide-for-LAs-v1.pdf

A few people may be better off migrating to UC naturally, for example, single people who work part-time.  It is always best to take advice from Citizens advice or a local welfare agency.

https://advicelocal.uk


Last edited by Non Deficere on Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:37 am; edited 5 times in total (Reason for editing : typos)
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Re: JSA Sanction information.

Post by Non Deficere on Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:22 am

Oneman,

I know you are under considerable pressure and stress at the moment.

I am confident your MR/Appeal will succeed.

In the meantime, do not forget to explore your options.

Your partner could claim Housing Benefit as she has no income.  If you try to claim they may refuse, check this out with a Housing Benefit Adviser.

https://advicelocal.uk


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Re: JSA Sanction information.

Post by dboy on Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:48 pm

oneman wrote:Just for information.
I was sanctioned last week on JSA for not doing everything reasonably possible to find work. The usual crap that I have dealt with before. I sent off my evidence to the DM and got an appointment for hardship. At the appointment I was told that my claim had been disallowed by the DM and I must now apply for UC as my claim is closed, stopping all benefits immediately with no Hardship.
Apparently if you are on JSA and are referred to the DM you automatically have your claim disallowed and asked to sign up to UC.
Can anybody verify this I have had it confirmed by a manager and the Work roach doing the hardship appointment but still not 100% sure it's not all bull shit.

Oneman just seen your thread not been around much of late but curios about the events leading up to the point having a doubt raised for not ASE.

Was this the first time you met the work coach or was this your regular work coach ?

How did you present you work search?

When your work coach said they was raising a doubt did they explain why they were raising the doubt and did you ask to see the manager when your work coach said they were raising a doubt ?

This will not be any help to you I am sure your already in good hands anyway just curiosity more than anything on my part and surprised it got this stage the bar for upholding a ASE doubt is pretty high and the numbers of those sanctioned for ASE is tumbling.

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Re: JSA Sanction information.

Post by oneman on Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:10 pm

dboy wrote:
oneman wrote:Just for information.
I was sanctioned last week on JSA for not doing everything reasonably possible to find work. The usual crap that I have dealt with before. I sent off my evidence to the DM and got an appointment for hardship. At the appointment I was told that my claim had been disallowed by the DM and I must now apply for UC as my claim is closed, stopping all benefits immediately with no Hardship.
Apparently if you are on JSA and are referred to the DM you automatically have your claim disallowed and asked to sign up to UC.
Can anybody verify this I have had it confirmed by a manager and the Work roach doing the hardship appointment but still not 100% sure it's not all bull shit.

Oneman just seen your thread not been around much of late but curios about the events leading up to the point having a doubt raised for not ASE.

Was this the first time you met the work coach or was this your regular work coach ?

How did you present you work search?

When your work coach said they was raising a doubt did they explain why they were raising the doubt and did you ask to see the manager when your work coach said they were raising a doubt ?

This will not be any help to you I am sure your already in good hands anyway just curiosity more than anything on my part and surprised it got this stage the bar for upholding a ASE doubt is pretty high and the numbers of those sanctioned for ASE is tumbling.
I get a different work roach every time. They constantly try and put me on group information sessions that I refuse and they are constantly trying to pass the buck to others.

I provide my own work search evidence and it has been fine for 5 years.
I did see a manager but he was just as bad as the work coach.
I have had issues with this women before when she was insisting I do GIS. She is a proper sophomaniac and sycophant

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Re: JSA Sanction information.

Post by dboy on Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:21 pm

What has really got my interest is the Universal Credit aspect.

It never occurred to me before reading this thread that a sanction could lead to having to migrate over to Universal Credit .

Interested to know how this progresses.

I can see many people taking the UC route in my shoes JSA single and well over 24.

If I knew I would not receive any money after failing to provide good reason at the first stage for 2 weeks it seems the best route for me would be to claim UC and within a few days I would get my first interview then I could get a same day 100% advanced payment.

It would solve my problem short term having some money rather than nothing would think wow a few hundred pounds in one go would be a blessing right now and for many that would seem tempting and the best solution.

But then I look at the long term implications.

5 weeks or more wait until I get paid again.
Deductions for the advanced payment on top of a potential reduction for the sanction taking my food budget to an all time low.
Moving from a simple step based regime to a 35 hour regime
Rent arrears
Loss of 14 day holiday entitlement
Reduction in the number of days self certified sickness from 28 to 14
Hardship payments have to be paid back

The roll out starts proper in July next year for managed migration but expected to take until 2023 before complete and that could be pushed further forward.Not sure of the exact timetable and when my migration day letter is likely to drop through the letterbox, but I still have a potential 2 maybe 3 years before that happens.

I plan to grip onto to JSA for as long I can there are a lot of calls to scrap UC and Labour have now joined the chorus but there is no call for yet for scrapping the welfare reforms so Labour could make a few changes if they even get into power but still continue migrating legacy JSA to a revamped payment system with a new name but it would still underpinned by welfare reform regime.


A few things crossed my mind If had to face the same dilemma and was sure of overturning it at MR or appeal it throws up some questions apart from having to survive on zero income while waiting.

Housing benefit would be my first worry could I continue claiming legacy HB during the MR or appeal process and or declare zero income without making a fresh claim for HB.

If had to make a fresh claim for HB the afaik I would then need to claim UC for the housing benefit element or risk huge arrears.

And during this period would I be in a twilight zone having no live JSA or UC claim then I would not be under any regime whoopeee…... no one would see me……. no appointments ?

And If that was the case would I be fully backdated if successful at any stage.

It seems to me that there is a good argument as to why they should fully backdate the payment but equally I can see why they would not.


And if they did not fully backdate payment because of no live claim during this time but if the MR or appeal was successful then I would be able to put in a formal complaint for the hardship suffered and recovery for full loss of payment going back to when the maladministration occurred.

Worrying situation though makes avoiding a doubt doubly important for me now.









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Re: JSA Sanction information.

Post by Non Deficere on Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:35 pm

I am pleased Oneman shared his/her story with us.  I am obviously very angry that an adverse decision was made on the facts of the case.  

I could not find any reference to a disallowance triggering a change of circumstances and subsequent natural migration to UC.

My focus at present is helping to resolve the pressing matter in hand.

Further investigation is required regarding the finer details of 'natural migration' to UCFS.
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Re: JSA Sanction information.

Post by dboy on Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:58 am

I get a different work roach every time. They constantly try and put me on group information sessions that I refuse and they are constantly trying to pass the buck to others.

I provide my own work search evidence and it has been fine for 5 years.
I did see a manager but he was just as bad as the work coach.
I have had issues with this women before when she was insisting I do GIS. She is a proper sophomaniac and sycophant

Yep pretty much the same here seen a different work coach each fortnight for about past 30 weeks but told we are going back to regular work coaches from next week.

I think the problem is they have drafted staff from other departments to cover staff shortages I have spoken to a couple of work coaches that told me they were not normally front line staff.

I had a period when each time I signed on they tried to refer to a GIS or 3rd party providers but I refused I had recently put in a SAR so I saw the notes they were leaving each other recommending they use a JSD after the 5th attempt they then unlawfully issued me with a jobseekers direction to attend.

I informed the manager at the time that not only was it unlawful to issue me with the direction and I should be offered alternative arrangements instead but I also had it on my notes that I been removed from a GIS as unsuitable previously by a work coach.Would not listen at all I had all the rules and regulations to hand to show them.

So as soon as I got home I put in a formal complaint to the CRT which they upheld and fully admitted maladministration they have now put a prominent note on my file not to refer me to group sessions or 3rd party providers to prevent any further occurrences.

35. Given this customers can object to being dealt with in a group

environment and this must be respected. Alternatives to the group session

should be available where requested for JSA customers only.


I have also asked for financial redress last time I got £25, not a huge sum but every little helps.

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Re: JSA Sanction information.

Post by oneman on Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:43 am

[quote="dboy"]


35. Given this customers can object to being dealt with in a group

environment and this must be respected. Alternatives to the group session

should be available where requested for JSA customers only.


I have also asked for financial redress last time I got £25, not a huge sum but every little helps.

WOW. Thanks for that. I thought the only way to get placed on a GIS was to have a jobseekers direction issued.

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Re: JSA Sanction information.

Post by Non Deficere on Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:57 am

oneman wrote:
dboy wrote:


35. Given this customers can object to being dealt with in a group

environment and this must be respected. Alternatives to the group session

should be available where requested for JSA customers only.


I have also asked for financial redress last time I got £25, not a huge sum but every little helps.

WOW.  Thanks for that. I thought the only way to get placed on a GIS was to have a jobseekers direction issued.

It is not wholly straightforward.

The JSD must be reasonable for your circumstances and tailored to your needs.

Group sessions cannot replace sign on appointments or work focused Interviews
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Re: JSA Sanction information.

Post by dboy on Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:05 pm

It is not wholly straightforward.

The JSD must be reasonable for your circumstances and tailored to your needs.

Group sessions cannot replace sign on appointments or work focused Interviews

Yes I should have been more clearer,

The JSD to attend the GIS was preprepared and handed to me without any discussion as soon as I sat down.

This particular GIS was held off-site at a third party provider the session involved learning how to claim universal credit amongst other things and pretty much geared to getting folk to sign up to some other courses we all know and love

I have attended a few GIS in the past some were very fast they just signed us up as a group by ticking our names and then let us on our way.

The reason I was thrown off the last GIS which was supposed to last for 12 weeks was the work coach told us all we were all going to be moved over onto Universal credit in the coming months (this was last year) and they would be teaching us amongst other things how to claim Universal Credit (common theme recently).

I disputed the Work coaches claim and I explained how migration works and it would be at least 2 years before managed migration starts to roll out and this would take until at least I think back then it was 2022 obviously they took offence at having their authority challenged and undermined in front of a group so to avoid seeing me the following fortnight they took me off the GIS and then put the note on my file "Do not refer to GIS: ring me if need any information"

Having it finally resolved long term now makes my trip to the JCP far less stressful for sure but I do miss the opportunity to get on my soapbox in group sessions.



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Re: JSA Sanction information.

Post by oneman on Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:42 pm

Your the first person that I have heard of been given a JSD to attend a GIS, but I suppose it must happen.

The brown envelope has finally arrived about the decision. The 2 week sanction is applied.
There is no mention of the disallowance on my claim and they expect me to continue to provide them with signed declarations if I'm wanting to appeal. Is this correct if I no longer have a claim?

Mandatory Reconsideration went in today.

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Re: JSA Sanction information.

Post by dboy on Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:13 pm

Your the first person that I have heard of been given a JSD to attend a GIS, but I suppose  it must happen.
All the JCP in my area merged into the council making it one of the largest Job centres out of the 750 odd job centres in the country so chaos is not the word and prone to mistakes they often come up with a few schemes like the introduction of a job shop but like ripples in a pond I have since heard others have also had Job shops in other cities so maybe a JSD GIS could become more common. Improvisation I think has been for the order of day up and down the country while they are getting to grips with UC.

Apologies for going off topic I know you have more pressing concerns.




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Re: JSA Sanction information.

Post by dboy on Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:36 pm

Oneman what happened in relation to your benefits while all this was going on did you sign up to UC or awaiting the outcome of the appeal ? and if you did not claim UC what have you done about your rent, did they allow you to continue to claim legacy UC with nil income ?

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Re: JSA Sanction information.

Post by oneman on Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:33 pm

dboy wrote:Oneman what happened in relation to your benefits while all this was going on did you sign up to UC or awaiting the outcome of the appeal ? and if you did not claim UC what have you done about your rent, did they allow you to continue to claim legacy UC with nil income ?

Still all up in the air at the moment, dboy.
The council are as gormless as the JCP so They are still paying The rent.
They have not accepted the MR so they have been asked to look at it again before the tribunal.
I have not put a claim in for UC yet. But Luckily I have enough money to tide me over until the Tribunal. I'm also very good with the horses so that helps. I'm thinking of making a living from it.

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Re: JSA Sanction information.

Post by dboy on Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:45 pm

Thanks for the update dread to think how someone not so lucky would fair.

I win a free £10 bet on occasion on Free poker games will have to ask for a tip next time.

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