Restart for JSA claimants

How long was the sanction for Catwoman?
As I have said before there is no time limit to appeal a sanction and I beg that you do appeal it. It costs you nothing and is another notch against the DWP's vicious sanction regime. At some point, they will have to assess the failure of this regime and every failed sanction will count. They understand now that every appeal for a sanction costs them thousands and thousands of pounds and it's just not worth taking anybody to the tribunal to have it overturned every time.
The benefit amount you get is the minimum amount the government says you need to live off, so any amount below that (like a sanction) is against their own legislation and has to fail in a court of law. Ian Duncan Smith tried to get this changed and then went through every court in the land and even went through the EU Court of human rights and failed. This is so ironic as he then went on to promote Brexit! What a Cu*t!

I stop turning up for my restart appointments two face to face appointment missed already zero communication from them everytime I enter the office they piss me off.
Let's see how long before I get sanctioned? overheard one day a advisor mentioned someone didn't even turn up to their office for 5 months before they even notice the place is so disorganised wouldn't be susprised I ride out till the end without a sanction.
Only way to get in contact with me is by letter blocked all their contacts by email and phone my work coach yesterday asked how restart last meeting with them was in April we are coming upto June next week.

Tom tiny wrote:We call the restart programme a scheme that isn't fit to run a bath with hot water and yet they have the power to sanction people by telling lies to your work coach half of the dim wits advisors cannot even spell a word in my action plan perhaps change it to "spelling plan" and they tell the unemployed what to do by barking orders every fortnight.

The Restart scheme has no power to sanction anybody. They can only raise a failed to participate doupt to your work roach. It is your own personal work roach who presses the sanction button. They will never admit to this or tell you who did press it but I know for a fact that it is your work roach as I had to give evidence when I got my work roach sacked and she had to admit this in a court of law.
Remember these work roaches are not your friend.

oneman wrote:

Tom tiny wrote:We call the restart programme a scheme that isn't fit to run a bath with hot water and yet they have the power to sanction people by telling lies to your work coach half of the dim wits advisors cannot even spell a word in my action plan perhaps change it to "spelling plan" and they tell the unemployed what to do by barking orders every fortnight.

The Restart scheme has no power to sanction anybody. They can only raise a failed to participate doupt to your work roach. It is your own personal work roach who presses the sanction button. They will never admit to this or tell you who did press it but I know for a fact that it is your work roach as I had to give evidence when I got my work roach sacked and she had to admit this in a court of law.
Remember these work roaches are not your friend.

The restart scheme only have powers to bully you and threaten you for not turning up for their appointments.
Anything else call them empty threats that why they only contact your WC over failed to turn upto appointments anything else they need to follow strict protocol.

I highly doubt my work roach going to press the sanction button after I been complaining fortnightly with evidence to her about the whole failed programme she even said to me how has restart been treating you fairly told her no she knows one bad move she is sacked for a unlawful sanction I will indeed challenge this she knows I'm that type of person that doesnt back down after hearing me out every fortnight moaning about the restart.

When I phoned the Restart manager last week, they told me that they would let my Restart advisor know I wouldn't be attending that appointment - from this, I assumed I would be sent another appointment by email.

I sign on next week, so should I tell my work coach what's happening or just let them think I have another appointment coming up? It may be that Restart have notified my coach that I didn't attend Restart last week, but I had already told my coach what my plans were so I'm not at all worried on that front.

What worries me is if no appointment is made before the 4 weeks is up since my last appointment, my coach might ask me how can I prove what I said to the Restart manager.  I already have the call logged in my phone, of course this doesn't describe the content of the call.  I can only hope that the Restart manager is honest and says yes they contacted me and I told them I would notify their advisor.  But I'm worrying that perhaps the onus might be on me to chase them for my next appointment.

Of course, I will be pleading ignorant and telling them I've not been thinking straight thanks to all the stress caused to me by Restart.  This is something noted by Restart and my job centre work coach.  Not that this will count for anything if they try to pull me through the wringer for a sanction.

Not your job to arrange appointments. The Provider guidance makes clear timely appointment booking is the provider's responsibility. End of. (do the kids still say that??)

I presume the appointment you missed was voluntary as you have never referred to being given a Mandatory Activity Notification. You cannot be sanctioned for missing a voluntary appointment. If you are on JSA Restart has it's own sanctions hit squad, based in Dundee, who deal with sanction doubts.

Just fudge any Restart questions from your WC. Don't bring it up unless they do. If they ask specifics about your next appointment just say you can't remember exact date/waiting to hear from them. Maybe I've watched too many of those trashy TV programmes about criminals but learn from them. Never give your interrogator too much so they can start trying to trip you up.

How is the fit note/extended period of sickness progressing?

I second that. You don't need to tell them anything. If they ask you just say "worse than doing nothing" and laugh.

In that case, if my coach asks then I will correctly tell them that I am pleased with the current progress - which is correct, as I am not in contact with Restart.

If and when Restart twig that I haven't attended for a while, could they argue they haven't had the correct amount of time with me and extend the date which I finish the course? If not, then I am more than happy for Restart to burn off all the time they want at their own expense.  Mentally I am quite happy that I am not being intensively interrogated and pressured by a load of Hitlers.

Regarding the fit note, I am not going to burn the three months off until I have to.  The longer Restart forget about me, the better.  I have roughly until October, then I am done with Restart.  Right now, it's all about wasting time as much as possible, but doing so wisely too.

If and when Restart do contact me with another appointment, my plan is to attend, nod my head then not attend the next appointment - fingers crossed, this will ensure that my fit notes see me nicely until the end.

I do realise that the fit notes don't actually excuse me from attending, unless my work coach dictates so.  This is where I hope others might offer advice in what happens when I do get fit notes, as part of me wonders if they'll just be a waste of time with Restart basically applying as much pressure as they like while disregarding both medical advice and what my advisor tells them.

Intincroi wrote:In that case, if my coach asks then I will correctly tell them that I am pleased with the current progress - which is correct, as I am not in contact with Restart.

If and when Restart twig that I haven't attended for a while, could they argue they haven't had the correct amount of time with me and extend the date which I finish the course? If not, then I am more than happy for Restart to burn off all the time they want at their own expense.  Mentally I am quite happy that I am not being intensively interrogated and pressured by a load of Hitlers.

Regarding the fit note, I am not going to burn the three months off until I have to.  The longer Restart forget about me, the better.  I have roughly until October, then I am done with Restart.  Right now, it's all about wasting time as much as possible, but doing so wisely too.

If and when Restart do contact me with another appointment, my plan is to attend, nod my head then not attend the next appointment - fingers crossed, this will ensure that my fit notes see me nicely until the end.

I do realise that the fit notes don't actually excuse me from attending, unless my work coach dictates so.  This is where I hope others might offer advice in what happens when I do get fit notes, as part of me wonders if they'll just be a waste of time with Restart basically applying as much pressure as they like while disregarding both medical advice and what my advisor tells them.

I'm doing what your doing now missing my appointments my roach ask how restart is?
I say making great steps doing courses online still await for next appointment by post that all the information your roach needs.

Not attending anymore meetings feels like a interrogation at the police station with every visit at the restart sometimes I get put into a small room with my advisor and manager questioning me everything trying seek information out of me they know I'm a difficult person to handle so apply pressure to him make his life hell.

Done with this now let's see how long before they alert my WC for not engaging more people should follow suit by not turning up for appointments.

Coconutxone wrote:I'm doing what your doing now missing my appointments my roach ask how restart is?
I say making great steps doing courses online still await for next appointment by post that all the information your roach needs.

Not attending anymore meetings feels like a interrogation at the police station with every visit at the restart sometimes I get put into a small room with my advisor and manager questioning me everything trying seek information out of me they know I'm a difficult person to handle so apply pressure to him make his life hell.

Done with this now let's see how long before they alert my WC for not engaging more people should follow suit by not turning up for appointments.

I've wondered how they would act when you tell them you're going to video record the whole meeting and point your camera at them the whole time. I've got a feeling they'd try to say it's not allowed as other claimants are also in the same room and you might record them and their personal information, which would be a breach of the DPA.

But if they've got you in a room, they can't claim that. I guess if they ask why you want to record the meeting, tell them it's for your own protection and so you have proof of everything that's being said to each other.

Personally I wouldn't have the guts to record them on video, but I'd perhaps do it more discretely. But I would like to see what happens if videos appeared on YouTube and they are outed for the scum that they truly are. Sadly I don't think this will ever happen.

Intincroi wrote:

Coconutxone wrote:I'm doing what your doing now missing my appointments my roach ask how restart is?
I say making great steps doing courses online still await for next appointment by post that all the information your roach needs.

Not attending anymore meetings feels like a interrogation at the police station with every visit at the restart sometimes I get put into a small room with my advisor and manager questioning me everything trying seek information out of me they know I'm a difficult person to handle so apply pressure to him make his life hell.

Done with this now let's see how long before they alert my WC for not engaging more people should follow suit by not turning up for appointments.

I've wondered how they would act when you tell them you're going to video record the whole meeting and point your camera at them the whole time.  I've got a feeling they'd try to say it's not allowed as other claimants are also in the same room and you might record them and their personal information, which would be a breach of the DPA.

But if they've got you in a room, they can't claim that.  I guess if they ask why you want to record the meeting, tell them it's for your own protection and so you have proof of everything that's being said to each other.

Personally I wouldn't have the guts to record them on video, but I'd perhaps do it more discretely.  But I would like to see what happens if videos appeared on YouTube and they are outed for the scum that they truly are.  Sadly I don't think this will ever happen.

They are already breaching DPA in a open plan office they saying your details out loudly any dick, Larry, Tom, Jerry can listen to you conversation.

Asking them permission to record them is currently invalid in my eyes.
You can also have software to blank out other customers details/voice/faces on the video once you mention to your advisor your recording the whole appointment they will put on a nice friendly act pointless telling them.

I will record my whole meeting with my advisor by using a small body camera if they ever ask me to go back going to expose this fucker and put the video all over YouTube do it when you leave the programme make sure you blank out all the sensitive information and use a voice changer.

I will name my YouTube channel "restart advisors abusing unemployed"

Perhaps we should get those mass audits on YouTube to target the restart offices around the country.
Plenty audit targeting job centres  
https://youtu.be/IOJesNLkcBM
https://youtu.be/CBM5Mw1qYjI

Really don't understand what this guy is trying to achieve? It's not exactly shocking the results he is getting. But the footage of the dismay it causes the civil servants is amusing.I
The irony of having cctv posters all over the shop is LOL.

wouldn't be able to video much in my visits as they don't ask me to do anything bar scan my bus ticket

Ignatius wrote:Intincroi, I've done a bit of homework on an Extended Period of Sickness. Apologies if you have read this previously but it may be of use to you/others. I would pay close attention to the bit in bold about 'tailored conditionality'. WCs are instructed not to assume a fit note/EPS means a claimant should be excused all work search activity. Rather a WC has to demonstrate they have made a suitable adjustment to your commitments due to your health condition. If you get a fit note, before you submit it make sure you have thought about the ways your WC may do some tailored conditionality which is not in your best interests and be ready to argue your case.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/375410/response/910079/attach/6/JSA%2520Extended%2520Periods%2520of%2520Sickness.pdf%3Fcookie_passthrough%3D1&ved=2ahUKEwiSrdrP3Y7_AhWYHsAKHd9tAjMQFnoECD8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw1lPPx-RXMBz8vcR6ZAgPR3

Intincroi, your best bet for using fit notes to swerve Restart is to understand what is meant by Tailored Conditionality. The link I posted earlier is from a What Do They Know FOI request and provides an example of how a WC is supposed to implement this DWP think. One negotiating tactic may be to say you could cope with Restart appointments only 🤮 but not with courses etc. Recordings of appointments means you can substantiate the hassle you are getting. You probably don't need to play them to your WC but you can quote directly from them when discussing it with your WC. Your WC will likely require some fairly substantive material to even temporarily remove your requirements to do Restart. At the risk of sounding like a broken record stop signing Action Plans and withdraw data sharing consent if you haven't already. They are probably not harassing you because they are psychos but because you are a potential cash cow. Terrible analogy time Why do dodgy tradespeople etc target some people but not others? Like Restart, they're always after the easy money rather than waste their time on people they cannot exploit.

Restart advisors are just jumped up sales people, driven by the false god of their targets. People who they know cannot help them hit their precious targets are less attractive. When you say they want to know everything, what do you mean? One other way to stop them is to assert your right to not complete their charlatan diagnostic assessments. The less they know, the less of their bullshit they can foist on you.

Act like you have problems engaging with "humans" did that with ingeus 2 year work programme worked wonders they all think you have some form of issues.
I was basically left alone for the whole 24 months to do your thing my buddy on the other hand had worst he was a very sociable person he wa basically forced into everything.

Ingeus 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮worst company ever..

The Catwoman wrote:Ingeus 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮worst company ever..

It's was horrible 24 months long wasn't as bad as the restart didn't actually get forced onto anything back then targets probably wasn't so high for the advisors unemployment also wasn't that bad businesses wasn't that bad back then.

What I remember now is the advisor will print out a book with all business address make you send your cv to every bloody business writing down the address with a envelope sticking stamps and hope for the best what will that achieve that was the hardest thing I did.

Ah, Tom Tiny. I reminisce about the day of flogging free first-class postage stamps given to you by the work programme. At least for the first few weeks until I got kicked off for not signing their documents. I also remember they sent me a certificate on how to wipe my arse and one to say that I was 100% qualified to do work search and find a job on my own. This came in very handy when DWP tried to justify why they wanted to refer me back to the work programme.

oneman wrote:Ah, Tom Tiny. I reminisce about the day of flogging free first-class postage stamps given to you by the work programme. At least for the first few weeks until I got kicked off for not signing their documents. I also remember they sent me a certificate on how to wipe my arse and one to say that I was 100% qualified to do work search and find a job on my own. This came in very handy when DWP tried to justify why they wanted to refer me back to the work programme.

haha i didn't get the luxury of the stamps as i refused to sign their paperwork years ago, what i did get was prepaid allday travel cards in advance for a while (like 7+ each office visit) which were scratch card types as digital cards weren't a thing back then.
was a while before they started counting how many they handed out and it was 1 per visit after that :-(

mandy tori wrote:

oneman wrote:Ah, Tom Tiny. I reminisce about the day of flogging free first-class postage stamps given to you by the work programme. At least for the first few weeks until I got kicked off for not signing their documents. I also remember they sent me a certificate on how to wipe my arse and one to say that I was 100% qualified to do work search and find a job on my own. This came in very handy when DWP tried to justify why they wanted to refer me back to the work programme.

haha i didn't get the luxury of the stamps as i refused to sign their paperwork years ago, what i did get was prepaid allday travel cards in advance for a while (like 7+ each office visit) which were scratch card types as digital cards weren't a thing back then.
was a while before they started counting how many they handed out and it was 1 per visit after that :-(

Haha scratch cards bus tickets I remember that aswell arriva ones some people took well over 3 tickets use them next day to travel back in the old days help yourself for everything from bus tickets to stamps.

Thought I would share this chat reply from somebody from 3 months ago.
It might be helpful to some but it's nothing that has not been said before on here.

"Restart get your consent at your initial appointment, in my case they have you sign the back page of the Restart booklet they issued me with, they take a copy. You probably did not know that you had given them consent. You can request to withdraw your consent to allow them to share your data (inc. your CV) with third parties, you are well within your rights and JCP are not legally allowed to stop your benefit payments as a consequence of your withdrawal of consent. If your Restart provider (Ingeus in my case) do not withdraw your consent as requested, they are infringing GDPR and you would need to contact the iCO regarding their infringement. The iCO will then addresses it with your Restart provider and your Restart provider will be left no choice but to withdraw your consent. I know because I very recently did just that. My Restart provider had no idea how to deal with my request. They told me this was because no one had ever asked them before. They told me that the Jobcentre told Restart provider that they could not withdraw my consent. Long, long story short. My consent has now been withdrawn. The Jobcentre have no say, the iCO do.

I have included two of the emails sent by Ingeus Data Protection Officer below and my response. Click bottom left, more replies.

If you wish to widraw you consent for Restart provider to share your data with third parties, put your request in writing to their data protection officer. Do not take no for an answer. If they do not withdraw your consent as requested, write to the iCO."