Restart program

15 days? Still time for them to pounce on you Oneman.

Until I read the gripping page turner that is my SAR, I had forgotten that 4years ago I got referred to the Work and Health Programme. As this was on health grounds I humoured the Work Coach by agreeing to go and as it was a voluntary referral, exercised my right to say it wasn't for me. The entries for the WHP and Restart referrals are the same, as in no start date, DNA and a referral result date is the only real information. In contrast the details for the Work Programme all those years ago have start dates and end dates. I think I am in a Restart black hole, despite it still being on my CC.

I certainly will be making a SAR to the provider. They told me they had written to the Jobcentre about my not signing the paperwork, yet there is no mention of any such communication in what I received today.

I was amused to read that when I had phone appointments during the COVID lockdown, one of the work coaches actually wrote down each &, every job I told her I had applied for.

Does anyone know what Submission/Referral Date is in DWP speak? I appear to have 2 of these. The first is the date of my Warm Handover. The second is the day before my last contact with Restart, where they refused to deal with me & told me my JSA claim was closed. Could this referral date be for a sanction doubt? Have they referred me to Restart again but forgot to inform me? This date is 6weeks ago so if it is a sanction doubt surely I would have heard by now?

Yes, you would have heard by now. When I was referred for a doubt I was sanctioned and informed of that sanction within 5 days of the referral doubt. The first thing a DM has to do is make sure the doubt is legit. It's not legit if there is no contract for the provider to deliver Restart to you. For that to happen they have to enter a start date. The start date can be backdated, but I'm not sure how far they can go back without it looking dodgy.

There is no explicit reference to any sanction doubts being raised or mention of a Decision Maker anywhere. Would that be recorded in my JSA notes?

I don't know if it would be in the notes or not. You would certainly get a letter very quickly and JSA would stop almost immediately.

apparently I was issued with a JSA 534 & 536 and had my warm handover appointment booked 2weeks before they even mentioned Restart to me. That really is quite the whopper. The first I knew of Restart was when I sat down to sign on & they called the provider to do the handover call there and then. The only letter I've ever had was a JSA 598.

There's also the fact that they didn't create those other notices until long after you got the JSA598.

Does it say JSA534 and JSA536 or is it a typo? The DWP themselves quoted 594 and 596 in the FOI I got. If it says 534 and 536 in the notes then they've listed the wrong notices.

"Does it say JSA534 and JSA536 or is it a typo? The DWP themselves quoted 594 and 596 in the FOI I got. If it says 534 and 536 in the notes then they've listed the wrong notices."

Well spotted. The WC entered the following on 27/06/22:


WSR ATTENDED. 470 INPUT AND CC UPDATED. REFERRED TO RESTART, JSA 534 & 536 ISSUED TO CUST AND 3 WAY APPOINTMENT WITH PROVIDER BOOKED FOR MON 11/7/22 AT 10AM.

Does that mean they didn't actually refer me if they are not the correct notices? Like I said, quite the whopper. I wish I had recorded that appointment now. The first I knew was when I was ambushed with the Warm Handover call itself on July 11th.

This is the first time I have made a SAR. To those who have never made one I would recommend it, if only for 'intelligence purposes'. It is informative to note how some WC are very on the ball and record anything you tell them, some threaten you with this and that, but never record it, others appear to do the minimum, and some just make bizarre errors, for example, in an entry from ages ago a WC has somehow referred to me by a name that is in no way similar to my actual name.

After reading my records I really don't know why some of the WC find me awkward. My records portray me as the perfect claimant. My ASE requirements are always satisfied, I have never been late for or missed an appointment, and it doesn't look like they have had cause to refer me for a sanction.

Every sanction I had over the years (8 in all) were all from the work programme. I have never had one from the Job centre.
They do press the sanction button, without question if referred from the WP though.
The DWP only sanction as a last resort apparently!!!

I won every appeal by the way.

I also have a next to my name at the job centre so they must play golf as well

An 8 times appeal winner?

The JCP should put a plaque on one of their manky sofas to honour you and your successes - "Here sat Oneman who stuck it to the Decision Makers over and over again." The JCP love all that motivational stuff, I'm sure they'll agree to it.

Well played #Oneman. .

Maybe you should change your username to #Number-Oneman. ..

Have you added the lasted score to your total with the Retread (Restart) scheme.????

Pintel wrote:Well played #Oneman. .

Maybe you should change your username to #Number-Oneman. ..

Have you added the lasted score to your total with the Retread (Restart) scheme.????

There is only me got away with that one, that I know of but I did refuse to sign anything with restart, so that was easy.

A technical error is what DWP called it.

I'm on here to help and would not have won my first appeal, let alone this one if it was not for this site and members from the old site.
That is a fact.

If only dole life was like like the Olympics and you got a every time you won an appeal. You could melt your medals and be worth a fortune Oneman.

Every time I read posts by those who have an encyclopediac knowledge of the benefits system, I have images of them turning up for their JCP appointments wheeling in a🧳stuffed with all the rules & regulations ready to sock it to their WC. I am in awe of and very grateful for their knowledge.

Ignatius wrote:Every time I read posts by those who have an encyclopediac knowledge of the benefits system, I have images of them turning up for their JCP appointments wheeling in a🧳stuffed with all the rules & regulations ready to sock it to their WC. I am in awe of and very grateful for their knowledge.

Just ask!

It's all obtained from people on here.

and help from others on here.

Ignatius wrote:Well spotted. The WC entered the following on 27/06/22:

WSR ATTENDED. 470 INPUT AND CC UPDATED. REFERRED TO RESTART, JSA 534 & 536 ISSUED TO CUST AND 3 WAY APPOINTMENT WITH PROVIDER BOOKED FOR MON 11/7/22 AT 10AM.

Does that mean they didn't actually refer me if they are not the correct notices? Like I said, quite the whopper. I wish I had recorded that appointment now. The first I knew was when I was ambushed with the Warm Handover call itself on July 11th.

They call booking a phone call from a provider "a referral", but without a start date in PRaP that referral goes nowhere. The provider has rejected the referral and refused to pick up the contract. They are trying to blame you for that, but that won't go anywhere as you have not broken any JSA rules.  

Where the "JSA 534 & 536 ISSUED TO CUST" is concerned it does not explain what those numbers and letters are referring to. What the hell is a JSA 534 and 536? It's clearly a mistake and it should be 594 and 596, but is that mistake forgivable? No, it isn't. The entry is a lie. No notices were issued on that date.

This is what the DWP wrote about Restart notices in the FOI dated 24 August 2022:

JSA594 Invite to Work Search Review - Restart Scheme

JSA596 Restart Scheme – 3-way call

Well, at least in the FOI they could be bothered to state what a JSA 594 and JSA 596 are. Why doesn't whoever wrote the 27 June note describe what a JSA534 and 536 is? It should have been simple enough for them to do so instead of taking it for granted that someone reading that note would know what the hell they were referring to.

The only notice that is valid is the JSA598. As the provider hasn't entered a start date into PRaP for you none of the notices are connected to a provider contract anyway, making them all null and void.

The WC responsible for the entry for 27/6/22 could reasonably be described as one of the less industrious of the species. Signing with them is normally a breeze. Jobsearch barely gets a glance, CC shoved under the screen to sign, next appointment made and off I go a minute or two later.

I don't know what others have about Restart on their CC. My current CC states, "I will participate in the Restart programme and attend all my appointments. I understand it is a mandatory programme of support." Good bit of DWP speak, omitting the all important bit about unless you have good reason not to attend/participant. I particularly like them not informing people that the mandatory stuff should be on a MAN so people think they have to do everything Restart tells them. I don't even know why it is still on my CC over a month after Restart apparently put everything in writing to JCP about my failure to sign the paperwork and refusing to give me any further appointments. I almost felt bad signing it.

oneman wrote:Every sanction I had over the years (8 in all) were all from the work programme. I have never had one from the Job centre.

Ditto. We were both sanctioned on the WP and have never been sanctioned via the JCP. It's been threatened a few times, but they've never carried it through. A roach said to me in June that I'd never been sanctioned so I had no need to worry about any sanction via Restart  

I also have a next to my name at the job centre so they must play golf as well

Mr Absolut had a red flag too. I don't know if it's still there and don't care if it is. The red flag was bull right from the start. He wasn't to be seen by any female worker and 2 weeks later he was seen by a female worker.

Ignatius wrote:The WC responsible for the entry for 27/6/22 could reasonably be described as one of the less industrious of the species. Signing with them is normally a breeze. Jobsearch barely gets a glance, CC shoved under the screen to sign, next appointment made and off I go a minute or two later.

Do you mean you sign a labour market declaration? The words in front of you are "I declare that" etc?

I don't even know why it is still on my CC over a month after Restart apparently put everything in writing to JCP about my failure to sign the paperwork and refusing to give me any further appointments.

Yeah, almost as if no such thing was put in writing and they were lying . I'd stay quiet about there being no appointments. You aren't legally required to chase anything up.

Absolut wrote:

Ignatius wrote:The WC responsible for the entry for 27/6/22 could reasonably be described as one of the less industrious of the species. Signing with them is normally a breeze. Jobsearch barely gets a glance, CC shoved under the screen to sign, next appointment made and off I go a minute or two later.

Do you mean you sign a labour market declaration? The words in front of you are "I declare that" etc?

I don't even know why it is still on my CC over a month after Restart apparently put everything in writing to JCP about my failure to sign the paperwork and refusing to give me any further appointments.

Yeah, almost as if no such thing was put in writing and they were lying . I'd stay quiet about there being no appointments. You aren't legally required to chase anything up.

Since COVID the declarations about have you done any work/change of circumstances are done verbally in my JCP. The only thing they get you to sign now is a paper CC. The electronic signing thingies have never been seen post-covid. Apparently as everyone will soon be on UC they are no longer required.

Whilst I'm not going to open my gob about Restart and am confident I can bat away vague enquiries about how it is going, I do have a nagging worry as to what I should say if they ask when my next appointment is.

My restart advisor communicated with my WC via email.

Topaz wrote:My restart advisor communicated with my WC via email.

I hope they haven't been emailing untruths about you to your WC. Do you usually see the same WC? In the 3months since my referral to Restart I have had 4 different WCs. In my local JCP there are only a handful of staff who deal with the JSA folk.

Have had 4 restart advisers. No discussions between us, just type stuff and print off action plan to be signed. Feels very impersonal. At first face to face meeting, restart adviser asked me to sign induction forms as soon as I sat down before even reading them. He got very pissed off cos I refused to sign consent to use my CV, (although I gave him my reason for refusal) or use portal and he said I had to or couldn't join Restart, and told me I didn't want to work! This stressed me out as I thought I this might lead to a sanction. I signed travel consent and privacy part. WC got emailed about this meeting making out I wasn't participating. Told me I should use portal ( but it's voluntary!). Have had job interviews, so WC backed down a bit.

Well done Topaz. If you don't sign the action plan then they can't issue a Mandation and you will not be sanctioned for not participating. They will try to get you sanctioned but they will fail.

I only got through 3 Restart advisors before they bid me a not so fond farewell.

Both your provider and WC seem to be ignorant of the guidance.

"he said I had to or I couldn't join Restart". That's more or less what my provider tried on with me. Presumably this fib features heavily on PowerPoint presentations during staff training.

"This stressed me out as I thought this might lead to a sanction". That will be in the presentation as well - play on their fear of the Big Bad Jobcentre and sanctions.

Perhaps the forum needs a Provider Bullshit Bingo Card.

That's what they said to me on work and health program...if you don't sign form then you can't take part. Even though their precious form said you don't need to sign it....

Ignatius wrote:bcentre and sanctions.

Perhaps the forum needs a Provider Bullshit Bingo Card.

On to a winner there at #Ignatius.

What  number would "¥ou need to sign the forms". "Unlucky for some" (number 13)...

"The DWPs Den, number 10"

: "Doctor's orders (but we will ingnore this advice, as we know better) number 9

https://www.slingo.com/blog/bingo/bingo-lingo-a-complete-list-of-bingo-calls/

Ignatius wrote:Since COVID the declarations about have you done any work/change of circumstances are done verbally in my JCP. The only thing they get you to sign now is a paper CC. The electronic signing thingies have never been seen post-covid. Apparently as everyone will soon be on UC they are no longer required.

Thanks. I thought they had shoved an ES24JP in front of you.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/548803/foi-3460-13-annex2b-es24jp-1011.pdf

Whilst I'm not going to open my gob about Restart and am confident I can bat away vague enquiries about how it is going, I do have a nagging worry as to what I should say if they ask when my next appointment is.

I think I would truthfully say, "I don't know, they've not sent anything through yet about the next appointment".

Has anyone done the 3 way phonecall (not the referral one) they mention after being on restart for a few months?
i wonder how they facilitate it. i assume it would be in JCP office, I won't remind provider or WC I'll wait for them to bring it up..

im 3 month's in so mine cant be far away

The Provider Guidance has got a bit in about 3 way calls once you are on Restart. I think a provider or JCP can arrange one for various reasons. I do remember it said they shouldn't need to occur very often, at most a couple of times. Providers can also arrange a 2 way call with JCP.

Presumably it would take place at a WSR because that would seem the most efficient way.