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Post by Pintel Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:40 pm

I visited my local JCP🚽 office today. Instead of the usual 'Frown'👹 from the civil-servant behind the desk. I was greeted with a 'go to this section Mr Pintel'. This was before I even handed over my credentials?🙃

Should I be worried? While most appreciate customer service, I can't help feeling there's something wrong here. As I usually like to keep a low profile. Or are. The JCP🚽, rewarding there longest customers🎖️...
Has this happened to anyone else?




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Post by Ignatius Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:53 pm

I haven't had to give my name to security, who act as reception, for ages. Initially I felt concerned, like I was notorious but now I just see it as befitting of my high class status. They've usually got my name crossed off before I even get to their little desk thing.

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Post by Pintel Thu Mar 30, 2023 6:47 pm

Thanks #Ignatius 👍. I was somewhat 'paranoid'😵 I was being singled out...

Kept hearing the theme🎵 to the TV show 'Cheers' - "you want to go where everybody knows your name....". When I was on the casting couch 🎬...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h-mi0r0LpXo
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Post by Leaf Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:49 pm

Ignatius wrote:I haven't had to give my name to security, who act as reception, for ages.

This is a breach of GDPR. Security shouldn't be anywhere near your personal information.

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Post by Samosa Fri Mar 31, 2023 4:09 pm

Hello.. wondered if anyone could help with a self employment query, have been offered a care job at £10 an hour for 12 hours a week, I know it's not enough hours to fully keep job centre of my back, now the sick note has run out..but will it help? have told JC I intend to start the job and they have said I need to be self employed, but all that SE malarkey looks well complicated, it's just a private job.. is there any way I could just declare earnings on journal or do I have be to be self employed, will the tax office take £ of low earners & if I can increase my hours to 18 a week(which I think the gvt are making the minimum amount of hours a week) will it stop dwp harassment?

Also does anyone know about taking a holiday while on UC? had a holiday booked from over a year ago when working but couldn't go at the time, so it was rebooked.

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Post by Pintel Fri Mar 31, 2023 4:52 pm

Leaf wrote:
Ignatius wrote:I haven't had to give my name to security, who act as reception, for ages.

This is a breach of GDPR. Security shouldn't be anywhere near your personal information.


Your quite right #leaf... I always find it strange, how people (maybe not their own fault) start to take over others roles 🤔. Like the JCP 🚽 Roaches clown deployed to medical institutions, giving medical advice, with no medical qualifications... Seems to depend on the JCP 🚽, to what type of reception service you receive? From the you tube link, #Power to the Proletariat, as he visits JCP s🚽 around the country. Nice to see what other JCP 🚽 offices are like..

https://m.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEA&search_query=power+to+the+proletariat

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Post by Ignatius Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:17 pm

Security have been acting as reception staff, or front of house if you prefer, at my jobcentre since well before Covid. Similar arrangement at the local pop-up JCP. Although well aware this drives a coach & horses through GDPR, I will concede the security staff have always been personable and they have better customer service skills than most of the WCs.

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Post by Leaf Fri Mar 31, 2023 7:38 pm

Pintel wrote:to what type of reception service you receive?

There's 2 floors, the one I'm on has no reception. You go and sit near your coach until they call you. They usually tell you where to go if you need to see someone different at your next appointment.

Pintel wrote:From the you tube link, #Power to the Proletariat, as he visits JCP s🚽 around the country. Nice to see what other JCP 🚽 offices are like..

I saw the one where he was assaulted by staff and a couple others. I hope that those auditors are actually issuing complaints and trying to get things changed and not just doing it for views. He's good at informing people about their rights and how you can enforce them, though it's more difficult when you're a claimant.

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Post by Caker Sat Apr 01, 2023 8:44 am

Samosa wrote:Hello.. wondered if anyone could help with a self employment query, have been offered a care job at £10 an hour for 12 hours a week, I know it's not enough hours to fully keep job centre of my back, now the sick note has run out..but will it help? have told JC I intend to start the job and they have said I need to be self employed, but all that SE malarkey looks well complicated, it's just a private job.. is there any way I could just declare earnings on journal or do I have be to be self employed, will the tax office take £ of low earners & if I can increase my hours to 18 a week(which I think the gvt are making the minimum amount of hours a week) will it stop dwp harassment?

Also does anyone know about taking a holiday while on UC? had a holiday booked from over a year ago when working but couldn't go at the time, so it was rebooked.

You would not earn enough to pay any tax. I would be highly suspicious of anyone who told you that you need to be self employed if someone else has offered you a job.
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Post by Samosa Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:33 am

It was the work coach who said I need to become self employed

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Post by Pintel Sat Apr 01, 2023 4:42 pm

It used to be the case, there was 2x JSA's (Contribution based & Income Based). Contribution Based JSA was for former Self Employed claimant's.
Is this the same with the U- Credit system? As I remember reading some claimant's where worse off under the Contribution based JSA rules.? 🤔

Just wondering in today's climate the Roach'clown is mentioning you going 'self employed'???


🤨

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Post by Pintel Sat Apr 01, 2023 4:44 pm

Leaf wrote:
Pintel wrote:to what type of reception service you receive?

There's 2 floors, the one I'm on has no reception. You go and sit near your coach until they call you. They usually tell you where to go if you need to see someone different at your next appointment.

Pintel wrote:From the you tube link, #Power to the Proletariat, as he visits JCP s🚽 around the country. Nice to see what other JCP 🚽 offices are like..

I saw the one where he was assaulted by staff and a couple others. I hope that those auditors are actually issuing complaints and trying to get things changed and not just doing it for views. He's good at informing people about their rights and how you can enforce them, though it's more difficult when you're a claimant.

A similar situation for me #Leaf. I always thought how many  more
Leaf wrote:
Pintel wrote:to what type of reception service you receive?

There's 2 floors, the one I'm on has no reception. You go and sit near your coach until they call you. They usually tell you where to go if you need to see someone different at your next appointment.

Pintel wrote:From the you tube link, #Power to the Proletariat, as he visits JCP s🚽 around the country. Nice to see what other JCP 🚽 offices are like..

I saw the one where he was assaulted by staff and a couple others. I hope that those auditors are actually issuing complaints and trying to get things changed and not just doing it for views. He's good at informing people about their rights and how you can enforce them, though it's more difficult when you're a claimant.

A similar situation for me #Leaf. I always thought how many  more Data- breaches #PttP, would find if he got past the reception, and got to the casting couch's😵

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Post by Samosa Mon Apr 03, 2023 6:16 pm

Has anyone got any advice on the self employment stuff i mentioned earlier, or does it have to be a new thread ?

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Post by Absolut Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:37 am

have been offered a care job at £10 an hour for 12 hours a week

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-employment-status-for-tax

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-status-manual/esm4000

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-status-manual/esm4015

ESM4015 - Particular occupations: careworkers

People with disabilities, who receive funds under the Community Care (Direct Payments) Act 1996, the Independent Living Scheme, from a Court award for personal injuries or from private charitable funds etc. need to engage carers to provide the personal care they need.

Careworkers are often engaged through agencies. If so, and the agency legislation applies, then follow the guidance at ESM2001.

If the agency is an introductory agency or no agency is involved, then careworkers can be divided into two categories; those who look after individuals in their (i.e. the careworker’s) own home and those who work in the home of the person being cared for. In most cases, the status of the careworker will be decided on the usual general case law tests.

Care provided in careworker’s home

The guidance on adult carers and adult placement schemes is at BIM52780 onwards.

The guidance on foster parents is at BIM52755.

Under these guidelines, the careworker is usually treated as self-employed with profits chargeable under Case I or Case II of Schedule D and with Class 2/4 NICs liability. It should however be remembered that, unless the Revenue has entered into an agreement with the relevant National Association or representative body in which the profits are chargeable under Case 1 or 2 of Schedule D, these are only general guidelines and that, in appropriate cases, you may need to look at the contractual arrangements that exist between the parties.

Care provided in client’s home

The case law tests normally indicate that a careworker who looks after a client in the client’s home is likely to be an employee. In particular there will often be a significant right of control, for example the carer required to arrive at a pre-arranged time and perform tasks at the request of the client. On occasions the facts may indicate self-employment. For example, it may be the case that a careworker looks after a number of people concurrently and has a business organisation in place. (This content has been withheld because of exemptions in the Freedom of Information Act 2000)

Operation of PAYE

Where the client is considered to be an employer but he or she might have difficulty in operating a PAYE scheme, consider whether the use of the Simplified Deduction Scheme is appropriate. See the guidance at PAYE73000 onwards and ECH21006. Consider also the possibility of making a local arrangement for a relative or representative of the client to operate PAYE on their behalf. Please note that given the sensitivity of these cases they must be approached tactfully.

From 6 April 2012, HMRC will no longer set up new employers under the Simplified PAYE Deduction. From this date these employers will be set up as standard ‘P’ schemes and will be expected to operate a normal PAYE payroll and file their returns online.

Is the careworker a spouse or close relative?

For NICs purposes, if someone is employed by a close relative in a private dwelling-house in which both the person employed and the employer reside, disregard it unless the employment is for the purpose of any trade or business being carried out in that private dwelling-house by the employer (see ESM4155 and ESM4156).
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Post by Samosa Wed Apr 05, 2023 12:23 pm

Thanks for the info absolut, I know about the direct payment thing, but the client isn't up for arranging all that & the care provided is in her home, so she will be paying weekly by cheque, I don't know if the family will be interested in arranging a different type of payment - the simplified Deduction Scheme looks worth looking into, is it complicated to set up? should I ring the tax office and ask about my tax status, I rung Acas - but they were useless, will 12 hours a wk be enough to keep work coach off my back? I have told them i will be starting work, but i haven't made any change in journal as my uc payment is due soon. Do you know if it's poss to take a holiday on UC? i read that you're still supposed to do the 35 hr job search thing and be available to come back for an interview.. will this p/t work help ease the job search requirements?

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Post by Samosa Wed Apr 05, 2023 12:30 pm

Oh.. I just realised it says the simplified deduction scheme hasn't been in action since 2012& I don't think anyones up for PAYE payroll /files hastle - it's such a small amount of money I'll be getting.. is £120 a week taxable when the UC will deduct my allowance anyway.. I'm very confused.

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Post by Samosa Wed Apr 05, 2023 12:35 pm

Also I don't have a contract; it's just an informal set up as I already knew the lady I'll be working for... on the tax link it says I'd need a contract.

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Post by Absolut Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:27 am

I'm sorry, I simply don't have the time to answer all your questions. I was answering your question about a work coach stating the work would be classed as self-employed. I was highlighting that it would not be self-employment. The pros of part time work, contract or no contract, small amount or not, is that a claimant who is working can't be referred to Restart.
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Post by Samosa Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:37 am

Hello, I appreciate you don't have the time to go into detail, but do you mean the work coach is wrong to say I have to become self employed ? & who should I contact to get more info on my situation, I've declared on journal that I have started p/t work, I haven't been in this situation before so it's confusing, the Simplified PAYE Deduction is no longer in action and the link says employers need to set up a standard ‘P’ schemes and will be expected to operate a normal PAYE payroll and file their returns online - but I'm dealing with an elderly lady who wouldn't be able to that.

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Post by Absolut Tue Apr 11, 2023 3:02 pm

Yes she is wrong to say you have to become self-employed. It's preposterous of her to even suggest it. The documents I linked to might be out of date concerning how an elderly lady goes about getting the help she needs, but the fact is if you work in someone's home you are not classed as self-employed by HMRC. When the work coach is employed by HMRC then she can comment on self employment. Until then she works for the DWP and can only talk to you about what evidence you need to give them for your UC claim - a payslip of some sort.

I wish I had more time, but I don't know how you can go about getting help for this elderly lady to be an employer, but it's not unknown for this sort of work to occur. Please contact your local "social services" (Services to Older People) or ring the tax office about the payslip issue. On this forum we can only help you with what garbage the DWP comes out, not how to go about actually being employed to be a carer by this, no doubt, lovely lady. To be working is the thing where UC is concerned and although it's confusing about how to prove it, you have a month to sort out the paperwork, at which point you will need to declare your employed earnings. The tax office has the answer for you where the rules are concerned on that. All I know is that you are not self employed under the cited circumstances.
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Post by Samosa Tue Apr 11, 2023 5:02 pm

Thanks absolut, you've been helpful and I appreciate it.

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Post by Samosa Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:20 pm

Hello asolut, I'm confused as to what we can and can't discuss here now that you mention this forum can only help with DWP madness.. I though it was for all people claiming benefits, even though I've got a p/t job I'm still on benefits, I can't get through to the tax office on the phone - it just rings and rings and then hangs up.. I wanted to challenge the work coach on why she said I have to become self employed when I only work 12 hours a week, you said it was out of order her asking this..but I don't know why it's out of order because I can't get through to anyone on the phone re my status.. & now they're asking why I didn't declare my start of earnings earlier on, but it was the wc who told me not to declare change of income yet as it would affect my next payment date.

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Post by Samosa Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:02 pm

Well..I'm even more confused re the self employment thing, finally got through to someone at the tax department..who put me onto a useless article at the self assessment place & she said if I earn over £1,000 a year..I have to become self employed.. so at the moment I'm earning £400 a month, the JC will, I guess deduct 55p from every £1 in my JSA ..But I still need to declare myself as self employed. The work coach is also insisting I need to be self employed in order to work for one lady in her own home for 10 hours a week at £10 an hour.

If anyone has any idea who I should contact that would be appreciated as I seem to be going around in circles

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Post by Leaf Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:55 pm

https://www.gov.uk/set-up-self-employed

Search self employment or sole trader on google. There are plenty of helpful articles about it. Essentially you need to register for self assessment with HMRC.

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Post by Samosa Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:38 pm

Thanks leaf, but it's confusing as absolut was saying there was need for me to become self employed when working in someone's home because I wouldn't be classed as self-employed by HMRC, but the person I spoke to at the tax office was as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike & I didn't even understood what I was asking her, I told her I'd spoken to Acas, but she didn't know who they were, and kept saying if I earnt £1000 a year - it has to be self employment

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