Voluntary work "reason for leaving"

by Absolut Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:14 am

When a claimant ends voluntary work (that they set up and weren't mandated to attend), why do you think roaches always ask why it ended? As they can't sanction a claimant for leaving voluntary work anyway are they just being nosey for no good reason or are they looking for something else, perhaps the claimant admitting to misconduct of some type?

by Caker Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:53 pm

I think it could be both.

by Pintel Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:04 pm

Good question @Absolut, for some reason the roaches believe that 'voluntary work' will lead the claimant into employment. Which is not usually the case in my experience. cyclops

by ABC Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:22 pm

Put yourself on the other side of the desk and I think you'd probably ask the same question just as a matter of interest. It's a natural reaction.

Also, as I was recently being heavily cajoled into getting voluntary work I was given absolute (verbal) assurance that there was no circumstance under which I could have a doubt raised against me for leaving voluntary work. I specifically asked what would happen if I had to leave due to a falling out or misconduct of some sort and my work coach said again there was no way they could raise a doubt.

I do wonder though why you have to fill in a form to alert them to the fact you are doing voluntary work.

Anyway, voluntary means voluntary (as a JSA claimant) and I refused to do any despite the arm bending. Very Happy

by Pintel Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:29 pm

ABC wrote:

I do wonder though why you have to fill in a form to alert them to the fact you are doing voluntary work.

It might have to do with the DWP investigation team thinking you are working on the sly @ABC. As I had to explain myself to them once as they thought I was working (yet I was declaring it to the roach). When I was doing some voluntary work, and yes I packed in the placement soon after that meeting, by the way I was spoken to by the Investigation team member! Evil or Very Mad

by Absolut Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:14 am

Thanks guys. It's always good to get other people's perspectives.

Caker wrote:I think it could be both.

I do too.

Pintel wrote:for some reason the roaches believe that 'voluntary work' will lead the claimant into employment. Which is not usually the case in my experience

I worked for one charity for 16 months. A couple of years later a paid job came up, which I applied for. I didn't even get an interview.

ABC wrote:Put yourself on the other side of the desk and I think you'd probably ask the same question just as a matter of interest. It's a natural reaction.

Sure, I can see that. Unfortunately I don't have a pithy answer for them as there are about 15 reasons why I left my recent voluntary job. I may simply say that there was no way the job was going to get me any further forward (I didn't learn any new skills at all).

Pintel wrote:It might have to do with the DWP investigation team thinking you are working on the sly

That's what they told me recently but they didn't explain why the form asks 'in what way is the voluntary work going to help you into paid work' where you are expected to put reference, up to date work experience etc. Voluntary work isn't only about gaining "work skills" but as most DWP employees have a one track mind the word altruism isn't in their vocabulary.

ABC wrote:voluntary means voluntary (as a JSA claimant) and I refused to do any despite the arm bending

My experience over the last 5 years (doing 3 voluntary placements so far) is that, thanks to the "work for your benefits" mind-set I've been treated like I should work for nothing simply because I'm a benefit claimant, particularly so in this latest placement (where I was treated like a disposable tool). It has definitely put me off volunteering again, particularly now that I know volunteers aren't covered by the Equality Act.

Again, thanks for all your responses.

by **Admin** Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:24 pm

ABC wrote:
Anyway, voluntary means voluntary (as a JSA claimant) and I refused to do any despite the arm bending.

I class it as taking a paid job up, so refuse under the claim that the shop can viably employ a person and pay them a decent wage

it makes a person seem important to the job being done than being the lakey shoved around like a piece of dirt

whilst being given the crap jobs we had to deal with as trainees ourselves

by Absolut Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:30 am

Admin wrote:I class it as taking a paid job up, so refuse under the claim that the shop can viably employ a person and pay them a decent wage

it makes a person seem important to the job being done than being the lakey shoved around like a piece of dirt

whilst being given the crap jobs we had to deal with as trainees ourselves

You are so right. I do think it's fine to volunteer where everyone is a volunteer, but if the organisation has paid staff then yes they can pay a decent wage.

I found the following, which comes in handy:

http://bright-green.org/2012/07/18/turning-altruism-into-exploitation/

John Roemer provides a formal definition of capitalist exploitation in the form of “B exploits A when B takes unfair advantage of a situation in which A is placed by a lack of access to resources”

charities are not only in the business of collective capital accumulation, but if they are paying staff wages above subsistence (or in other words above a living wage) then they are also fuelling private capital accumulation – meaning that those at the bottom of the charity sector labour market are being exploited in order to increase the capital accumulation of those at the top.

by **Admin** Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:34 pm

2014 Overpaid Charity CEOs - top 20 of highest paid employees

I recently discovered the list below of the charities with the highest paid staff in the country and it makes for very distressing reading. As a matter of policy, the Ten-Percent Foundation will not be donating to any charity in future that pays a CEO or equivalent more than £75,000, which we believe is a reasonable wage to be paying a decent manager or director involved in a non-profitable and charitable venture.

Consumers’ Association £300k-£310k
Marie Stopes International £260k-£270k
Save the Children International £261,309
Cancer Research UK £210k-£220k
British Red Cross Society £180k-£190k
Age UK £180k-£190k
Shaw Trust £180k-£190k
National Trust £170k-£180k
Royal Mencap Society £170k-£180k
Crime Reduction Initiatives £170k-£180k
Alternative Futures Group £170k-£180k
British Heart Foundation £173,300
Leonard Cheshire Disability £160k-£170k
Macmillan Cancer Support £160k-£170k
Marie Curie Cancer Care £160k-£170k
NSPCC £160k-£170k
Addaction £160k-£170k
Turning Point £165,000
Save the Children £162,220
Charities Aid Foundation £150k-£160k
Barnardo’s £150k-£160k
People’s Dispensary For Sick Animals £150k-£160k
Sense, The National Deaf blind and Rubella Association £150k-£160k
Royal Horticultural Society £150k-£160k
Zoological Society of London £150k-£160k
Historic Royal Palaces £151,037
Action for Children £140k-£150k
Salvation Army £140k-£150k
National Association of Citizens Advice Bureaux £140k-£150k
Royal National Lifeboat Institution £130k-£140k
Royal British Legion £130k-£140k
Royal National Institute of Blind People £130k-£140k
Scope £130k-£140k
National Autistic Society £130k-£140k
St John Ambulance £130k-£140k
Alzheimer’s Society £130k-£140k
United Response £120k-£130k
Dogs Trust £120k-£130k
Voluntary Service Overseas £120k-£130k
National Schizophrenia Fellowship £120k-£130k
Catch22 £120k-£130k

link to above reference

http://legalrecruitment.blogspot.com/2014/12/overpaid-charity-ceos-top-20-of-highest.html

by Absolut Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:40 am

All that charity work yet society is getting worse, not better.

by Caker Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:30 am

Some charities seem as if they are like businesses in all ways except their registered charity status. It looks like a tax dodge.

by **Admin** Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:44 am

from what im aware of many charities dont even pay for drinks or a sandwich when your volunteering

though it kinda stinks whats the harm in providing those when they are providing you a service within there shops

its about time there ceo's took a page cut and offered these services

though I have got to a stage like many others
after the dirty tactics of dwp and there minions i no longer support those dirty charities instead supporting others that provide a service to those that need it most

by Pintel Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:09 pm

As these charities are public companies? It would be nice to see their full accounts? I would especially like to see a pie-chart of the actual amount sent on wages/bonus and how much of the chart is going where it should be. As when I hear people performing feats of endurance etc, saying “All the money is going to charity” (minus paying a generous wage to the charity’s staff). I bet they won’t be advertising that? Voluntary work "reason for leaving" 2650990582

Voluntary work "reason for leaving" 2650990582

by Absolut Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:46 am

Pintel wrote:minus paying a generous wage to the charity’s staff. I bet they won’t be advertising that?

It's certainly worth looking at the most recent accounts of any "not for profit" before volunteering for them. All charity and not for profit accounts are available on the Charity Commission website, pie charts included Wink

.

by Caker Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:14 am

here,here!

by Archangel Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:51 pm

Absolut wrote:When a claimant ends voluntary work (that they set up and weren't mandated to attend), why do you think roaches always ask why it ended? As they can't sanction a claimant for leaving voluntary work anyway are they just being nosey for no good reason or are they looking for something else, perhaps the claimant admitting to misconduct of some type?

I thought claimants weren’t allowed to set-up voluntary work for themselves and had to do voluntary work the jobcentre chose for you.

I asked my roach three years ago if I could do a voluntary job I chose myself and she said no, you can only volunteer with organisations on their approved list, and that list had only charity shops on it, as far as I can recall.

If this rule has now changed can anyone confirm it?

by Committed Claimant Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:13 pm

Work coaches have access to all claimants records on their computers that show their current circumstances and the job seeking activities that they have agreed to undertake. They must keep those records up to date by law. That is why the claimant is obliged by law to inform JCP of any changes of circumstances and/or reasons for changes or failures to undertake agreed activities and why the coach must make such enquiries when they are informed of any such change.

I don’t think one should go over the top trying to read ulterior motives into this. I’ve lost count of the number of times posters here and elsewhere have bemoaned their coaches ignorance or knowledge even of their circumstances. They are unlikely to know much if they don’t ask or are not told. Claimants are generally reluctant to say say much in the hope that the less their coach knows the better. This attitude can sometimes backfire spectacularly.

There is nothing to stop claimants, or anyone else, from volunteering for any activity they choose. JCP went through a phase a couple of years ago where they were reluctant to accept individually selected voluntary activity as a reason for not undertaking or for detracting from the time spent by claimants on such job seeking activities as they had determined was for claimants’ benefit unless they chose the placements being volunteered for from a prescribed list. Such placements involved a degree of monitoring.

by Archangel Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:40 pm

If a person chooses a voluntary job themselves, can the JCP still pressure them to also do one of the ones on their list?

by Committed Claimant Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:05 pm

Any activity you choose to undertake, voluntary or otherwise, will count for nothing if it interferes or prevents you from undertaking any activity your coach has decided that you should undertake.

35 hours per week of job seeking activity now appears to be the settled norm. The rest of your time will be your own.

The scheme whereby claimants had to accept “voluntary placements” is no longer running.

by Archangel Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:23 am

Thanks.

by Welfare-Champion Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:31 am

https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t4285-voluntary-work-jsa-universal-credit

by Gallazz Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:00 pm

ABC wrote:Also, as I was recently being heavily cajoled into getting voluntary work I was given absolute (verbal) assurance that there was no circumstance under which I could have a doubt raised against me for leaving voluntary work. I specifically asked what would happen if I had to leave due to a falling out or misconduct of some sort and my work coach said again there was no way they could raise a doubt.

by Archangel Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:28 pm

On reflection, I think it’s best if people not tell the JCP they are doing voluntary work, as the JCP could pressure them into increasing the amount of time they do it, or pressure them to get the organisation they do it for to employ them.

This would put them in a bad light with the organisation, who would see them as “pests”, really only concerned about getting a job, rather than in the volunteering aspect.

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