Linking periods for the Work & Health Programme

jobberpw wrote:

MightyQunit wrote:

I did have trouble with the work roach though, they are trying to get me to use the UC journal to record work search, my previous work roach just let me bring a word document in on my phone to show them.

From what I've read they can not force you to use the journal, I have not signed the claimant commitment because of this so I could go do research/get advice, I am seriously considering putting in a complaint about the work roach misleading me and threatening to close my claim if I don't sign the claimant commitment, I have 7 days to comply she said.

They were also adding frequency to the tasks in the CC, check facebook x3 times a week, check indeed 5x a week etc, this is all designed and set up to enable them to sanction you if you put down in the work search you only looked on facebook x2 instead of x3. I'm pretty sure they can't add frequency like this, this work roach was a total bitch I tell you.

I am also being misled by my current roach and she isn't aware of it but I am monitoring her just as much as she is me. And you are correct MightyQunit, the journal is not a mandatory requirement to be used for work search that can be shown in any way the claimant likes as long is readable. I'd also question the frequency as haven't heard or seen anything that. By the way, there is another FOI out there saying its 'not mandatory for any claimants to use ANY social media websites to look for work.'Its just more bullshit ideology being used to bully claimants.


DWP Central Freedom of Information Team

Dear X,

Thank you for your Freedom of Information request of 30 October 2017. You asked:
Is it mandatory for claimants to have to use the universal credit journal to record their
job search or can they provide evidence in paper format, i.e. emails of job applications
or replies from employers?

Do I also have to upload a copy of my CV onto the journal? Would a paper copy be
sufficient to show my work coach?

It is not a mandatory requirement for the claimant to provide the required work search
evidence via their journal. The claimant must be able to provide written evidence of
their work search.

It is not mandatory for the claimant to upload their CV onto the journal, the claimant
must however be able to show a completed and up to date CV.

If you have any queries about this letter please contact me quoting the reference
number above.

Yours sincerely,
DWP Strategy FoI Team

Might be better to post these queries under another topic, as this one comes under 'Linking periods for the Work & Health Programme'

You can be mandated to WHP if you've been unemployed for 2 years plus, but your referral may well turn out to be voluntary - so say 'no'. Several people on this forum and WC have had voluntary referrals despite meeting the criteria for mandatory referral, and despite being told or left to assume that their referral was mandatory.

NB If you've had a referral and your initial appointment is coming up, it's not too late to say NO!

Many thanks, Gallazz.Hoping it won't be too bad this time as I have accumulated a few medical problems. So will be in and out of their stupid classrooms like a yoyo so they will have to suck this up whether they like it or not.

No probs. Obviously ask them for a referral letter and that should tell you whether it's mandatory or voluntary. If it's voluntary, just say you're not doing it. It won't go down well but there's nothing they can do. There might be a risk that they could then mandate you but a place would have to be available on a mandatory basis and it appears that not many are.

Basically, if you're unemployed 2+ years, accept a voluntary referral and 'disengage' (stop going), the Jobcentre will mandate you for the remainder of the time unless you can show good reason for not continuing (for example health grounds). Then you might not be mandated back. In one of my posts there's a link on this.

Not sure if my meaning is clear, but I think Jobcentres are tricking the long-term unemployed with 'voluntary' referrals to the WHP (by not telling them that their referral is voluntary or what that actually means, as above) because claimants who can't be mandated (ESA and LCW i believe) won't touch it with a barge pole, so this is the only way they can fill the places.

I don't know how far along they are with your referral but basically you haven't started on the programme until you've attended the first appointment and signed the paperwork. If you have the initial appointment letter and it doesn't say your benefits will be affected if you don't attend, you can miss the appointment.

Non Deficere wrote:You usually have to break your claim for 29 days to break the 24 month linking period.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/460725/response/1142387/attach/3/24%20months%20unemployment%20check.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

Just saw this thread now.

If you choose to take a 28-day claim break, what reason can you give the jobcentre for doing so? Wouldn’t they ask you why you want to sign off? And when you made a new claim after the 28 days, wouldn’t they want to know how you had supported yourself for that period? Would you have to lie, and tell them you had a job during that period? And if so, would they ask for proof of that, and details of how much you were paid for that job?

Archangel wrote:

Non Deficere wrote:You usually have to break your claim for 29 days to break the 24 month linking period.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/460725/response/1142387/attach/3/24%20months%20unemployment%20check.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

Just saw this thread now.

If you choose to take a 28-day claim break, what reason can you give the jobcentre for doing so? Wouldn’t they ask you why you want to sign off? And when you made a new claim after the 28 days, wouldn’t they want to know how you had supported yourself for that period? Would you have to lie, and tell them you had a job during that period? And if so, would they ask for proof of that, and details of how much you were paid for that job?

You don't have to give a reason for closing your claim.

You would need resources to tide you over during the break.

I suggest that you think about it if/when it is necessary!

Edit:
Don't forget you can't go back to JSA, you would have to claim UC after breaking your claim.

I wonder why you don't have to give a reason. I would have thought that they would want to know so they can put it in your file.

Yes, I'd have to go on UC after any brerak, which is worse than JSA. With JSA you are not pestered as much by them. But I have little choice seeing as I will be eligible for WHP in April.

Archangel wrote:I wonder why you don't have to give a reason. I would have thought that they would want to know so they can put it in your file.

Yes, I'd have to go on UC after any brerak, which is worse than JSA. With JSA you are not pestered as much by them. But I have little choice seeing as I will be eligible for WHP in April.

The signing on booklet ES/UB40/other allows you to give 'other reasons'!

There is no requirement in law (JSA/UC) that you must give reasons why you are closing your claim!

*Remember*  You are not automatically selected to attend the W&HP.

Volunteering might help you avoid the W&HP!

Archangel wrote: I have little choice seeing as I will be eligible for WHP in April.

Whatever they've said, it's far from certain that you'll be mandated to the WHP when you reach the two-year threshold. I say this because:

The WHP is only expected to support 25% of jobseekers.

Not many on this forum, most of whom are long-term unemployed, have been referred to the WHP, let alone mandated. Several have been referred on a voluntary basis despite meeting the criteria for mandatory referral, which suggests that mandatory places are in short supply. If you are referred, you might well find that the referral is voluntary, in which case you know what to do!

MightyQunit, who may have started this thread, was told he would be mandated to the WHP but closed his claim before that was confirmed. In several cases I know of, the Jobcentre told the claimant or implied that the referral was mandatory when it turned out to be voluntary. So believe it when it happens.

If you were mandated, I believe that refusing to sign the provider consent forms would mitigate your experience on the WHP. Some people found this on the old Work Programme.

Archangel wrote:I wonder why you don't have to give a reason. I would have thought that they would want to know so they can put it in your file.

Yes, I'd have to go on UC after any brerak, which is worse than JSA. With JSA you are not pestered as much by them. But I have little choice seeing as I will be eligible for WHP in April.

I am sure they would 'want' to know the reason, but want does not always get. Many a time I have closed a claim with no reason given, or even a false reason on occasions. There is nothing they can do about it

Gallazz wrote:

Whatever they've said, it's far from certain that you'll be mandated to the WHP when you reach the two-year threshold. I say this because:

The WHP is only expected to support 25% of jobseekers.

Not many on this forum, most of whom are long-term unemployed, have been referred to the WHP, let alone mandated. Several have been referred on a voluntary basis despite meeting the criteria for mandatory referral, which suggests that mandatory places are in short supply. If you are referred, you might well find that the referral is voluntary, in which case you know what to do!

MightyQunit, who may have started this thread, was told he would be mandated to the WHP but closed his claim before that was confirmed. In several cases I know of, the Jobcentre told the claimant or implied that the referral was mandatory when it turned out to be voluntary. So believe it when it happens.

If you were mandated, I believe that refusing to sign the provider consent forms would mitigate your experience on the WHP. Some people found this on the old Work Programme.

I hope that you are right.

The thing is, that even if I am not mandated to go on it, they will still pester me to. And keep doing so in the hope that I’ll buckle under. And I don’t relish having to have to put into practice all the “WHP avoidance” advice given in this forum and other such forums on how to verbally or by letter fight for my rights so that JCP roaches will leave me alone. I simply haven’t got the energy or assertiveness for that. Good luck to those who have.

Welfare-Champion wrote:

Volunteering might help you avoid the W&HP!

Do you know this for sure? And if so, how many hours of volunteering would need to be done?

Nothing is guaranteed with DWP!

See page 13

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/433524/response/1070248/attach/3/6.WC%20actions%20DCAMS.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

It would be ideal if you could find a voluntary opportunity which offers training and job search support.

Do you already have good examples of your job applications and CVs?

You don't have any basic skills needs?

Thanks.

I can't find any voluntary jobs that offer training and job search support other than those the JCP have on offer.

Most voluntary jobs I've done in the past have been for only a few hours a week, and very informal as to what my hours should be.

None were with big organisations, but with local charities doing various things for them in the office.

I don't have any basic skills need. But I'm 54, so that is a handicap, and the JCP know it, but pretend that it is not.

Archangel wrote:Thanks.

I can't find any voluntary jobs that offer training and job search support other than those the JCP have on offer.

Most voluntary jobs I've done in the past have been for only a few hours a week, and very informal as to what my hours should be.

None were with big organisations, but with local charities doing various things for them in the office.

I don't have any basic skills need. But I'm 54, so that is a handicap, and the JCP know it, but pretend that it is not.

These links may be helpful:

https://www.prospects.ac.uk/jobs-and-work-experience/work-experience-and-internships/volunteering

https://knowhow.ncvo.org.uk/your-team/volunteers/training/howmuch#

https://feedinggtrmcr.org.uk/volunteer-warehouse-assistants-fareshare

https://do-it.org/

You can search volunteer opportunities on indeed, the job description should highlight training

Edited Example only !

Stockroom assistant.

We provide full training and no experience is necessary.
We will pay reasonable travel expenses
We offer a volunteer discount in our shops
Flexible volunteer roles
We provide work experience and support

All my volunteer roles have included training and relevant qualifications.

Thanks. I'll look at those links.