Spat with the WC today...

So my WC wanted to waste time as usual by asking whether I had attended Restart, I replied yes. (she ought to know...), she asked "When was your last meeting?" I replied, "You ought to know".
She leans in and says, "You need to be careful how you talk to me, else I will walk you out of here, now answer my question!"
I just said, "I've answered." She repeated the question a few times, things got heated on her side, she basically said I was a waste of time, I called her an incompetent, she said I was a waste of taxpayers money.
This all went into a complaint, the reply was that other members of JC staff are agreeing with her version, but then they would close ranks. She also alleged she felt "Intimidated" etc, but nothing in my behaviour, tone, body language etc would have indicated that. They report is going to a nominated manager as to whether to take further action.
The reply was worded, I think, to cow me into dropping the complaint - which I won't due to public safety, a lot of claimants are vulnerable people, not as thick-skinned as myself.
Likely next steps?

I saw the comments on Reddit, what a bunch of snowflakes saying you should be banned from the JC.

.what are they on

Reason to record everything...always. I would have told her the biggest waste of tax payers money is those clowns, excuse my pun.

The Catwoman wrote:I saw the comments on Reddit, what a bunch of snowflakes saying you should be banned from the JC.

.what are they on

I imagine a lot of them are staff themselves, I notice a lot of fora tend to be 99% staff or 99% claimant, 99% landlord or tenant.

Bottom line is I can't legally be punished for speech that isn't illegal, and she needs to stop abusing her authority, whatever happens I'll fight for people more vulnerable than myself.

As a civil servant she should be neutral as to whether you are a burden to the taxpayer. Her job when she is at her desk is to administer benefits. Nothing more. Her views need to be put to one side when dealing with the public. When she gets home she is free to write letters moaning about claimants to the Daily Mail. Were security called to intervene? If not, then it can't have been much of a kerfuffle. In future, if they ask about Restart just say you have appointments every x weeks. I don't think your WC will know exactly when appointments are and not sure there is anything to be gained by arguing about that. Did you record your jobcentre appointment?

Ignatius wrote:As a civil servant she should be neutral as to whether you are a burden to the taxpayer. Her job when she is at her desk is to administer benefits. Nothing more. Her views need to be put to one side when dealing with the public. When she gets home she is free to write letters moaning about claimants to the Daily Mail. Were security called to intervene? If not, then it can't have been much of a kerfuffle. In future, if they ask about Restart just say you have appointments every x weeks. I don't think your WC will know exactly when appointments are and not sure there is anything to be gained by arguing about that. Did you record your jobcentre appointment?

No security needed, and I'll take the recording discussion to DM, as this is possibly being read by other agents.  There was a guard one or two desks down who has been their same guard for years.  He would testify he's never seen me act dangerously towards staff, I'm a mild mannered fellow even under stress, but I don't back down from abuse.  Never before sanctioned, never late for an appointment, never not filled in the jobs I've applied for.  I also find it ludicrous she'd say she felt "threatened by my behaviour", given he usually sits facing out, and could have been at the desk in seconds.

It's a second serious breach of professionalism that she was being so verbally aggressive THEN claims she somehow felt "threatened", in light of the above. Typical abuser's behaviour, to catastrophize the slightest of the victims's shortcomings, and pass off the abuse as standard ops.

Their union, PCS, will likely advise them to have a zero tolerance attitude to anything they perceive as abusive behaviour.

Ignatius wrote:Their union, PCS, will likely advise them to have a zero tolerance attitude to anything they perceive as abusive behaviour.

I welcome the Union's directive for protecting staff from genuinely abusive claimants, however a WC using and abusive tone and manner in questioning is itself abuse, and to then claim she felt "threatened" is a second abuse, this time of language. People like her simply add to the burden of those charged with deal with cases of abuse, who then have to filter out nuisance/nonsense claims like hers.

She's an abuser, falsely claiming to have been abused.

By some strange co-incidence the first word that escapes my mouth after I leave the jobcentre is 'wankers' or similar.

From the staff point of view, there will probably be a form to be filled in and escalated. Without sounding patronising, rant away on here about the staff but if the jobcentre ask for your version of events simply state you assumed your WC would know the details of Restart attendance which was why you bemused by her asking you. Make clear you were shocked to hear a civil servant accuse you of wasting taxpayers money. I wouldn't admit to calling her incompetent, rather I would have no recollection of that part of the conversation. After all, jobcentre appointments can be stressful. As always in these situations, offer nothing until they show their hand.

Well played to you #JaybeeInRB.  
It does seem a 'game🥎' some Roach's , like to play a 'bait and wait' for a claimant to get upset and make a scene... I had a similar experience. I was talking to a Roach , in a normal/friendly way. Then suddenly they shift gears , and in a raised voice tells me in a raised voice that "I need to calm down "? This woke the security guard up. As had I been excited/angry, surely they would of been on the situation sooner?

And later when I listened back to my 'alleged' recording, I accidentally made️. There was nothing in my voice, to indicate my blood pressure was rising...🤨

Have to wonder if the Roach, was a Taylor Swift fan???️

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Dkk9gvTmCXY

JaybeeInRB wrote: I also find it ludicrous she'd say she felt "threatened by my behaviour",

They use this excuse to get the security guard called over. It's just another threat to you to get you to comply.

Get yourself a tommano usb voice recorder or similar and use it every time. The job centre might say they do not allow recording but you can transcribe recordings for use in court if needed and even better if you get your MP involved they can listen to any recording you send them if they want. They can then pass this info on to your Jobcentre managers regarding any complaints.
Who are the managers going to believe???

Can you ask for a copy of the JCPs CCTV ️. For that area/time. As a picture is worth a thousand words 🧐. As you posted "She leans in and says, "You need to be careful how you talk to me, else I will walk you out of here, now answer my question!"."

The video will show her, actions. Not normal action, when sitting across a desk?

Pintel wrote:Can you ask for a copy of the JCPs CCTV ️. For that area/time. As  a picture is worth a thousand words 🧐. As you posted "She leans in and says, "You need to be careful how you talk to me, else I will walk you out of here, now answer my question!"."

The video will show her, actions. Not normal action, when sitting across a desk?

I have tried this a few times. The Jobcentre refer you to the Security company and by the time it has got to them and you have put in a request for the info, it has magically been overwritten. It's as if they had colluded together.
I would try again if needed but I'm banned ( been told there is no reason for me to attend JCP anymore) from the job centre for being a clever twat.

Ha, you lot only get security. The one time I had a minor contretemps with a WC, she got the manager . I still politely refused to sign the offending claimant commitment and nothing was ever said on the matter again.

Ignatius wrote:Ha, you lot only get security. The one time I had a minor contretemps with a WC, she got the manager . I still politely refused to sign the offending claimant commitment and nothing was ever said on the matter again.

As you well know I went for over 5 years without having a signed and valid claimant commitment. That proves the point you do not need one to get JSA.

I think 16 failed sanction attempts from JCP proves this.

Yes, their all working tirelessly to help us all.

May be going my way, hard to be sure the wording isn't too specific, let's see what the experts think...

"Thank you  for your message. As stated by (name deleted) the reports have been passed to a  manager for investigation. As this is an internal personnel investigation, you will not be informed any outcomes"

Presumably given they've also booked a future JC appt they will have already reviewed CCTV and seen nothing untoward / extraordinary. And my payment for this period was visible today (or at least hasn't been delayed) so...guardedly positive.

"As this is an internal personnel investigation, you will not be informed any outcomes"..

This comment fills me with confidence, of this investigation.‍. So how do you know if your complaint, has been investigated. And therefore, might wish to take it to the next level.. Not like the JCP will 'Whitewash' the problem under the carpet....

Picked up on this too Pintel "you will not be informed any outcomes" and indicative of what a mess up this whole system is. Zero accountability.

I'd tell them as they have that attitude, its best i take their comments up with my MP. They either have standards or they dont. Well, we know what they are, clearly.

Must be the "Invisable--Hand" of the DWP🧻....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_hand

To add to #Jobber said, an email to your DWP Area Manager wouldn't go a miss. You might want to mention the Civil Service Code of Conduct:



‘integrity’ is putting the obligations of public service above your own personal interests

🟩 An Internal Investigation, not exactly public service over you own colleges interest?

‘honesty’ is being truthful and open

🟩 Again, how truthful and open in a private/secret investigation?

‘objectivity’ is basing your advice and decisions on rigorous analysis of the evidence

‘impartiality’ is acting solely according to the merits of the case and serving equally well governments of different political persuasions"

🟩 And the last two, how can you tell if its not an 'open' decision.? 🧐


https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/civil-service-code/the-civil-service-code

🥎 Worrying when you get more accountality from a Supermarket , than a gov department ‍..

Your motely crew at your JCP🧻, #JaybeeInRB should be .
kissing the gunner's daughter:



Bending over the barrel of a gun for punitive beating with a cane or cat o' nine tails.

This needs to be an official complaint and not an internal investigation. If they do not give you a final written answer then go to your MP and ICE. Follow the government procedure they must give you an official final answer. Send a copy of the complaint to their area manager. There is a list of them if you search on here.

oneman wrote:

Pintel wrote:Can you ask for a copy of the JCPs CCTV ️. For that area/time. As  a picture is worth a thousand words 🧐. As you posted "She leans in and says, "You need to be careful how you talk to me, else I will walk you out of here, now answer my question!"."

The video will show her, actions. Not normal action, when sitting across a desk?

I have tried this a few times. The Jobcentre refer you to the Security company and by the time it has got to them and you have put in a request for the info, it has magically been overwritten. It's as if they had colluded together.  
I would try again if needed but I'm banned ( been told there is no reason for me to attend JCP anymore) from the job centre for being a clever twat.

The one benefit of being banned from a place you don't want to be, is you don't have to be there

As for footage, a little known fact is this is actually very hard (for outsiders) to obtain. What they also don't advertise is since the first lockdown/reopening there's an enormous backlog at CCTV offices of ALL levels, of requests for footage over incidents, so understandably their official procedure is to process requests in order of urgency/gravity, not chronology.

However, much less fairly, they also don't tell you that like-for-like, they also prioritise internal requests over external, so if I'd been the only one in this case to request footage, they'd have likely replied, "Yeah we've put the request in, we're just waiting" tick tick tick..."Sorry, the Security and Surveillance Division haven't come back to us with the footage and said 30 days have passed, it must have disappeared".

What I imagine has happened in this case, is the WC has gone ranting and screaming after the fact to security claiming I was a "threatening and intimidating", they had a quick shoofty at the footage and just seen me take a seat, alternate naturally between smiling, deadpan, and yawning, get up after 10 mins to leave, stand behind my chair (thus putting yet another obstacle in addition to the desk between us), say something of a few seconds duration to her, and leave.

Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA), including New Style JSA
Make an online complaint about JSA.

https://makeacomplaint.dwp.gov.uk/

Your area manager should be on this list send them a copy and a copy to your MP.
https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t4766-jcp-list-of-area-managers?highlight=area+managers