Recording your meeting with UC

Hi all,
I record all my meetings with the Jobcentre on a digital voice recorder and my mobile phone I have done so for some years to protect myself.
I don't try to hide the fact that I am recording them.
My last work coach didn't mind me recording my meeting with him and after a while, I didn't need to.
But that has all changed after this lockdown. My latest work coach is a right jobsworth as soon as she sees I have anything in my hands she goes off on a rant, about how I am braking the law and she cancels the meeting and asks me to leave.

This is a letter I received from them last week.


"I am writing to you about the incident that took place on 24th
December and 30th December at *#*#*# Jobcentre Plus when you filmed /
sound recorded in the Jobcentre.
You have been informed in the past by one of our managers and told that
you do not have the right to film / sound record in the Jobcentre].
The Department for Work and Pensions (‘the Department’) does not permit
anyone to film on its premises without permission.
We are a major custodian of personal information and it is important that
customers, individually and collectively, are confident that we hold their
personal information securely, and that it is not disclosed to third parties
who are not permitted to access it. This is one of the primary obligations
imposed on us by the Data Protection Act 1998 and if we did not have such
rules in place a breach of this Act could occur.
In addition the way you conducted yourself was disruptive to the proper
operation of the Jobcentre and intimidating/threatening to staff and other
customers.
In order to maintain this customer confidence, the Department is obliged
to take necessary steps to make sure that you do not film/sound record
other customers or their interviews. Other members of the public who are
present in the Jobcentre may not want you to film/sound record them. It is
possible you may unintentionally film / sound record other customers’
personal information.
We are under a legal duty to protect all those who enter the premises, and
can ask visitors and customers to comply with any reasonable rules to
ensure compliance with that overriding legal duty.
If you wish to film/sound record your meetings with the Department’s staff,
you are required to make a formal request in writing and await written
confirmation before commencing such filming/sound recording. The reason
for this is due to the fact that special arrangements will need to be put in
place, to ensure the confidentiality of other people’s information and the
safety of our staff.
You do not have the right to insist that your appointments are filmed /
sound recorded. Members of the public do not have an unfettered right to
access Jobcentres in all circumstances and instead do so under licence from
the Department (i.e. with the Department’s implied permission). When
doing so they must comply with rules designed to ensure that business can
be conducted efficiently, and which reflect the rights of members of staff or
of other members of the public using the facilities to access services. As an
employer and provider of public services, the Department must weigh up
the rights of its individual customers with the rights and welfare of its
employees and other customers.
Your persistent filming of Jobcentre staff is causing them to feel
threatened, alarmed and distressed and this is unacceptable. Your actions
could amount to unlawful harassment and a breach of the Protection from
Harassment Act 1997; such a breach can carry both civil and criminal
penalties. If you continue to act in this way we will have no choice but to
consider imposing a sanction against you and ultimately to apply to the
court to obtain an injunction [if the incidents occur in England and Wales]
[an interdict if the incidents occur in Scotland] preventing you from entering
the Jobcentre altogether. If an [injunction/interdict] application is deemed
necessary we may seek the legal costs of this from you and these are likely
to be considerable.
I hope that it is now clear why filming / sound recording in the Jobcentre is
not permitted, and therefore, I trust that you will make sure that this type
of incident does not happen again.
If you wish to contact me in relation to this matter, you should do so in
writing to the postal address above, quoting the reference at the top of this
letter. We will not accept any enquiries made by telephone or Email.
Yours sincerely
Manager
Jobcentre Plus"


I think it is ridiculous that the DWP thinks it has the right to walk all over my rights to try and protect it from breaking the law.
I have the right to record anything I like.
The DWP has a duty to protect its client's data.
Therefore holding a meeting where people private data is discussed in an open-plan office, where other people can overhear it and even record it must be illegal.

I just think the DWP has a cheek.

The DWP can record me with its security cameras all over its offices. 
They say that's for my security. 
But if I record my meetings for my security that's is not allowed.

ROTFL

Your comments and questions are welcome.

Nothing to Fear
Nothing to Hide


Your right about double standards at the JCP.
"Unlawful harassment" Harassment act 1997.
'Your persistent filming of JCP staff is causing them to feel threatened, alarmed and distressed and this is unacceptable'".

The amount of times I have seen/heard claimants being shouted at by Work Roaches . When waiting to be seen. Ive lost count, and the 'security' stood about watching and doing nothing! Maybe you could ask not to be filmed by there cctv....
And as you say 'data protection: in an open plan office. I think the DWP needs to get it own house in order?
The amount of personal information they want you to discuss in the open, for every one to hear!
Besides I thought you where allowed to record for own personal use, as might have a poor memory so need a record of discussion .

Thanks for the post, and let us know how it goes. Maybe the don't want people to see what really goes on:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/therese-coffey-dwp-covid-secretary-of-state-government-b1974388.html



https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t4733-bodycams-and-the-jcp

https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t4756-dwp-surveillance

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1997/40/contents

"individually and collectively, are confident that we hold their
personal information securely," REALLY!!  well, i say stuff them, and carry on regardless...recording that is . Do it covertly. If they weren't SO insistent upon playing games with people then, maybe, we would not need to go to such length's, but many do record and in my experience for very good and justifiable reasons. Recording does pay off, & in the claimants best interest. Unfortunately for DWP etc, now being so insistent upon claimants using digital technologies it will backfire on them. Best to have everything in writing imho.  

I would personally just use an audio recorder myself as can appreciate as bad as some roaches are, being filmed, will make the best of people feel slightly uncomfortable.


"They say that's for my security."Thats interesting as someone recently in the press said [they had no responsibility to people while in attendance at a roach shop] of which i found quite bizarre. After all, do they really think, if someone fell down a stair well in one of their offices and broke a leg, they wouldn't be looking to sue.



And as Pintel says 'data protection: in an open plan office. I think the DWP needs to get it own house in order?" 100%. Every time I am in there, i can hear clearly peoples details being discussed as they have their desks far too close together and the pathetic plastic office partition's, dont cut it.

My work coach considers locally saved journal/payment files to be a way of recording them!

Today I had a regular work search review appointment at my local Jobcentre. We got into a talk about a course that my work coach mentioned a few weeks ago in a journal message. The message mentioned what the course was about and it was clear it wasn't suitable for me. My work coach denies he ever wrote a message about the course.

While talking to him I logged into my UC journal on my phone, but I couldn't find his message. It was gone. Luckily I always keep copies of my payment and journal pages on my phone.. and sometimes on paper. He refused to look at my saved copy of my journal and he claimed that I committed a crime by "recording" him. He told me stop saving these pages. I had to trouble not to just laugh at loud because of the stupidity. He choose to end the appointment shortly after this and I was let go. Got a new appointment time with someone else in a few weeks.

I am not asking for help, just thought I mention my experience in this thread. It's nothing new that some work coaches are either incompetent or just malicious. Obviously I know that I can record my interactions with DWP in any way that I want.

Hi Jara,

Tell that roach to go to hell.

Excellent move on taking pics of journal  . Have heard others having info removed from their journal's.

Covertly record them.  There is very good reason, as to why we record these 'people' and why, we are forced to resort to such tactics. If they insist on being so ambiguous all the time, and trying to be being clever because of it then let them face the consequence's at a tribunal. I know of some recordings  that some, would find very interesting indeed, not least, the media and MP's. Time will tell.


Think its a crime to falsely accuse someone of a crime. Tell that MORON if he hasn't 100% proof you could sue for libel or slander, ask them how they'd feel about that .

UPDATE:

The DWP said that if it is only the claimant's personal data that is being audio recorded then there are no restrictions on the use the claimant can make of the recording.


A covert recording of a discussion or meeting may be admitted as evidence in court in England  and it may be an extremely powerful piece of evidence, in particular if the content contradicts witness evidence given by the person who has been recorded .


So for any mis informed moron of a roach or provider company take note that as such; all conversations with them in ANY discussion with a claimant about them and particularly; their health the above will always apply. Not something the powers that be really want us all to know it would seem:D . Bourne out by recent FOI requests: twisted: .


''only the claimant's personal data''

Although we all know its all a one way conversation when dealing with these people. I wonder, what their getting at here ?



Who else's personal data do they think is being discussed, A HCP or a roaches maybe ...planks

Hi all.
 
Just a quick update, since my first complaint in December 2021 of I have sent a complaint to my MP. About the Jobcentre lying by saying it is illegal to record inside the jobcentre. After 8 months the DWP still has not made an apology to me.
 
Now my, so-called advisor doesn’t even bother to make appointments for me to even see her anymore!!  It’s been like that for 4 months.  
 
Before that she would ask at the start of each meeting by asking whether I was recording this meeting, to which I would reply “That is nothing to do with her unless it is made one of my commitments, which I would make another complaint about”.  
 
Its worth looking at this video as he gets police called out to him to make a point. His channel has several visits to Jobcentre’s.
 
 




 
Hope it is useful to some of you!

Always record them, they don’t like it up them. 

On a side note here, I emailed my local JCP , to ask if they recorded their telephone calls.  The WC reply was " I can confirm that we do not record any calls that are made by the JCP"...

And of course, i really do trust that roaches remark

Here's a FOI about video recording in the JCP .

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/884989/response/2108078/attach/html/4/Response%20FOI2022%2061767.pdf.html

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/videoing_in_job_centres#incoming-2108078

Pintel wrote:
Here's a FOI about video recording in the JCP .

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/884989/response/2108078/attach/html/4/Response%20FOI2022%2061767.pdf.html

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/videoing_in_job_centres#incoming-2108078

Thanks, Pintel.

But that still won't deter me as that is only their policy and the law still says you can record. 

I guess they will try anything to try and stop people from catching them out.

They ask me every time I go there if I am recording them, and I just answer that it is none of their business what I'm doing outside my claim. 
Then they just tell me my meeting with them has been cancelled and I go home.

And yet, they record us in roach ville without our consent. Nice to see its all being done on an even footing.