Re: Job Centre Work Search Appointments resume next week

by newclaim2021 Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:15 am

being on uc since march 2019, not had any contact with uc since march 2020. today got phone interview for jobsearch for 15th march at 2.30 in my uc account.

Is their anyway to get face to face meeting for jobsearch meeting at the min? hate talking on the phone

by Guest Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:21 am

newclaim2021 wrote:
Is their anyway to get face to face meeting for jobsearch meeting at the min?

As it stands, definitely not.

by Tarquin Flotsam Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:53 pm

I received this today in my UC journal:

Job Centre Work Search Appointments resume next week - Page 2 Blob10

So the bullshit begins again! This "work coach" I have never been in contact with before, so it'll be interesting how this one pans out.
As my previous job search evidence consisted of me emailing my work coach with screenshots of jobs applied for, I will tell them I will continue to do so. If they insist I put this info in my UC journal I will flat out tell them I won't (because I know it isn't mandatory to do so), plus I have little to no access to a computer most times, and do not have a smart phone. They can't throw out the old "use a public library" as they're still not open!

Last time I had a phone appointment I explained that if they could guarantee I'd be safe travelling to the jobcentre (it's a 50 minute bus ride away) then I'd have no problem attending a face to face meeting. Of course they couldn't guarantee that, so he didn't pursue the matter. So I won't be surprised if this work coach comes up with the same mantra. Due to not having a personal laptop/PC/smartphone I would be unable to do anything by Zoom or similar either.

I live in a small town where jobwise there has been absolute zilch! The odd time a job came up I applied, but tbh I have not kept any job search evidence for several months now, so it'll be interesting what they say if they require evidence of my activities the past few months.

Edit: Forgot to add, this phone appointment takes place this coming Thursday the 11th.

by D.Appleby Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:26 pm

Tarquin Flotsam wrote:I received this today in my UC journal:

So the bullshit begins again! This "work coach" I have never been in contact with before, so it'll be interesting how this one pans out.
As my previous job search evidence consisted of me emailing my work coach with screenshots of jobs applied for, I will tell them I will continue to do so. If they insist I put this info in my UC journal I will flat out tell them I won't (because I know it isn't mandatory to do so), plus I have little to no access to a computer most times, and do not have a smart phone. They can't throw out the old "use a public library" as they're still not open!

Last time I had a phone appointment I explained that if they could guarantee I'd be safe travelling to the jobcentre (it's a 50 minute bus ride away) then I'd have no problem attending a face to face meeting. Of course they couldn't guarantee that, so he didn't pursue the matter. So I won't be surprised if this work coach comes up with the same mantra. Due to not having a personal laptop/PC/smartphone I would be unable to do anything by Zoom or similar either.

I live in a small town where jobwise there has been absolute zilch! The odd time a job came up I applied, but tbh I have not kept any job search evidence for several months now, so it'll be interesting what they say if they require evidence of my activities the past few months.

Edit: Forgot to add, this phone appointment takes place this coming Thursday the 11th.

Firstly, the blessed rules:

Proof
J3105
Before determining whether the claimant was meeting the work search requirement in any week the DM
1. must decide what the claimant did in that week to search for work and
2. may also have to decide what they did to search for work in previous weeks. The onus is on the claimant to show what steps have been taken1.
However the claimant only has to prove on the balance of probabilities and not beyond all reasonable doubt. The normal principles of evidence and proof apply (ADM Chapter A1).
1 UC, PIP, JSA & ESA (C&P) Regs, reg 38(2) & (3) & WR Act 12, s 23(3)
J3106
Determining whether claimants were meeting the work search requirement in any week requires a comparison between
1. what they in fact did to search for work in that week and
2. what the law required them to do.

J3107
Claimants must take the work search actions that give them the best prospects of securing work. It will not be enough just to spend time looking for a job. They must be doing so in an effective manner.

However, DMs must take into account what is reasonable in the claimant's individual circumstances in light of the local labour market and conditions that may impact looking for work at the relevant time. Also see J3301 and J3111.

J3108
DMs must consider what the claimant did do and why they didn't do more when considering a sanction referral for not meeting their work search requirements. They must ensure that any changes in the claimant's circumstances have been taken into account especially any complex needs, vulnerabilities, health conditions and any emerging changes to their needs along with local labour market conditions and any local or national restrictions in place where adverse conditions may apply, for example coronavirus restrictions. Claimants must be allowed to adhere to public health guidelines and local restrictions. See further guidance at J3250, J3301 and J3311.
Note: If the claimant has failed to meet their work search requirements for no good reason a medium level sanction would be applied. For guidance on good reason see ADM Chapter K2 and for guidance on medium level sanctions see ADM Chapter K4.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/963801/admj3.pdf

Secondly, you need to prepared for the worst scenario, but hope for the best.

DWP can ask for jobsearch evidence as far back as your last work search review.

Thirdly, some suggestions:

Hopefully, members will contribute today.

1. You need to explain your situation and your difficulties fully.

2. Ideally, provide evidence that cannot be corroborated, for example, asking friends and family about jobs they know about or, you have also asked them to search on-line for jobs in your area on your behalf. They have told you there has been nothing suitable to apply for for several month. You did apply for a couple of jobs (did you keep copies?).

by D.Appleby Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:29 pm

Jobsearch evidence can be provided verbally.

https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t660-you-must-use-a-universal-credit-journal-to-provide-your-cv-or-jobsearch-record#2815

J3102 Evidence of work search includes
1. evidence from employers, employment agencies or other bodies that the claimant has contacted
2. the claimant’s activity on Universal Jobmatch (now FindAJob)
3. copies of letters or applications that the claimant has sent to employers online, by post or in person
4. the claimant's uncorroborated written evidence (claimants should keep a record of their job search and other efforts to find work)
5. the claimant's own verbal evidence, recorded by an officer of the Jobcentre Plus office.

Latest:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/963801/admj3.pdf

by Tarquin Flotsam Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:12 pm

D.Appleby wrote:
Secondly, you need to prepared for the worst scenario, but hope for the best.

DWP can ask for jobsearch evidence as far back as your last work search review.

Thanks D.Appleby

When it comes to dealing with the DWP I'm always prepared for the worst scenario! As for my last work search review, that dates back to before the 1st lockdown. If they ask for evidence of jobs applied since I'll tell them I've started from scratch (as of Monday) keeping note of comfirmation of jobs applied. As you say in your 2nd reply, verbal evidence can be provided, so if they ask about previous jobs applied I'd go down that road. Having limited access to a laptop or smartphone would make using the UC journal to record this evidence impractical, should they pursue this road, so they will have to get most of my evidence verbally, maybe send the odd screenshot for any responses I do get regarding jobs applied.

D.Appleby wrote:
Thirdly, some suggestions:

Hopefully, members will contribute today.

1. You need to explain your situation and your difficulties fully.

2. Ideally, provide evidence that cannot be corroborated, for example, asking friends and family about jobs they know about or, you have also asked them to search on-line for jobs in your area on your behalf. They have told you there has been nothing suitable to apply for for several month. You did apply for a couple of jobs (did you keep copies?).

All of this is good advice and I've already worked out what I'm going to say regarding those suggestions. I will maybe tell them that until I get my 2nd vaccination I will not feel safe travelling long distances, ie: to their jobcentre or taking training courses. If they get snotty then I'll ask them to do a job search for my area and see what they can find... it won't be a lot!

Thanks again.

Edit: I will also inform them that once I do receive my 2nd vaccination, I will be relocating to a different part of the country. I'm now eligible to book an appointment for my 1st vaccination so that won't be too far away.

by parker123 Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:23 pm

Tarquin Flotsam wrote:I received this today in my UC journal:

So the bullshit begins again! This "work coach" I have never been in contact with before, so it'll be interesting how this one pans out.
As my previous job search evidence consisted of me emailing my work coach with screenshots of jobs applied for, I will tell them I will continue to do so. If they insist I put this info in my UC journal I will flat out tell them I won't (because I know it isn't mandatory to do so), plus I have little to no access to a computer most times, and do not have a smart phone. They can't throw out the old "use a public library" as they're still not open!

Last time I had a phone appointment I explained that if they could guarantee I'd be safe travelling to the jobcentre (it's a 50 minute bus ride away) then I'd have no problem attending a face to face meeting. Of course they couldn't guarantee that, so he didn't pursue the matter. So I won't be surprised if this work coach comes up with the same mantra. Due to not having a personal laptop/PC/smartphone I would be unable to do anything by Zoom or similar either.

I live in a small town where jobwise there has been absolute zilch! The odd time a job came up I applied, but tbh I have not kept any job search evidence for several months now, so it'll be interesting what they say if they require evidence of my activities the past few months.

Edit: Forgot to add, this phone appointment takes place this coming Thursday the 11th.

Yep I had the same message a while back, it's just a generic thing don't worry about it.

Honestly all these phone conversations with work coaches are a load of nonsense really - they only contact us because they have to, most of them genuinely dont care how much job searching and applications we do, as long as they can see SOMETHING and youre not completely taking the piss by avoiding doing anything.

I treat it as one big game and split it into two things- 1) I do all my job searching and applications for the benefit of me, things that I genuinely want to do or wouldn't mind doing, and 2) Show them some evidence of job applications so they know I'm trying

Unless youre unfortunate to get a jobsworth work coach this is the approach I'd always reccomend.

by Tarquin Flotsam Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:23 pm

Cheers parker123. I agree it's probably nothing to worry about, my last phone appointment back in September was fine. I always prepare for the worst because like you say there's always the chance you'll get some jobsworth.
In that phone appointment, when most activities were back to "normal", they just wanted to know if I needed any help, what I was doing about looking for work etc. They didn't even ask for any jobsearch evidence even though at that time I had plenty. Also I was given 2 weeks notice of that appointment whereas this one only 3 days before.

by Tarquin Flotsam Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:00 pm

As expected a perfunctory call, being 6 months since they last contacted me. Just went through my claimant commitment, little change to that.

Apparently the job market is "thriving"... Maybe in some sectors but certainly not in the work I'm looking for! The rest of the chat was the same old mantra I got when at face to face appointments, questions they feel have to be asked. Such as "why do you think you've had trouble finding work the past year or so?" Erm... worldwide pandemic hasn't really helped!!!! Bloody daft....

She's booked another phone appointment for 2 weeks from today, again no big thing, but said she'll need to see some evidence of jobs I've applied for. I explained I have no smartphone and limited use of the internet so what evidence she does see will be sparse, the rest will be verbal.

by parker123 Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:46 pm

Tarquin Flotsam wrote:The rest of the chat was the same old mantra I got when at face to face appointments, questions they feel have to be asked. Such as "why do you think you've had trouble finding work the past year or so?" Erm... worldwide pandemic hasn't really helped!!!! Bloody daft.....

Its amazing how experiences can differ on the same nationwide benefit - I've never once been asked a question like that, ever.
Pretty out of order that question especially given the Virus and Covid lockdowns. How silly.

Tarquin Flotsam wrote:She's booked another phone appointment for 2 weeks from today, again no big thing, but said she'll need to see some evidence of jobs I've applied for. I explained I have no smartphone and limited use of the internet so what evidence she does see will be sparse, the rest will be verbal.

Am I right in saying your UC Journal is virtually empty? I think you said it in a previous post? You dont use it to record any job applications?

I genuinely think you'd get less hassle if you popped a few jobs in the journal and the occasional note of what you've done. You need to realise it's all a game and try and see it from their perspective. Now I know you dont HAVE to use the journal there are countless pieces of information that say a claimant can provide their evidence how they see fit, but like I said it's all a game and we can play it how we like.

But from my experience, playing along leads to a quieter stress free life. Most work coaches that see a claimants journal and see there's been some activity (it doesnt matter what it is) will be satisfied with that and wont give it a second thought. Suspicion arises when there's absolutely nothing in the journal and a claimant starts kicking off about rules and regulations etc. Ive noticed a lot of people seem have a paranoia about jobcentre staff (me included at times) but not everything is out to get you

by Guest Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:08 pm

My strategy with *oaches is to play their game and overwhelm them with information. They then give up and beg me to stop emailing them or just put me on ignore. There's nothing that civil servants hate more than more work.

by Tarquin Flotsam Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:35 pm

parker123 wrote:Am I right in saying your UC Journal is virtually empty? I think you said it in a previous post? You dont use it to record any job applications?

Correct, I have never posted any jobsearch activity in my journal. Before it was always agreed I'd send a screenshot providing evidence of jobs I've applied for, usually emails from companies noting I have applied.

parker123 wrote:I genuinely think you'd get less hassle if you popped a few jobs in the journal and the occasional note of what you've done. You need to realise it's all a game and try and see it from their perspective. Now I know you dont HAVE to use the journal there are countless pieces of information that say a claimant can provide their evidence how they see fit, but like I said it's all a game and we can play it how we like.

I told the work coach that I will use the journal for putting in the occasional job I've applied for, but having infrequent access to a computer this won't be a daily occurrence. I could put complete and utter bullshit for all they know, regarding notes of what I've done, so I won't be doing that. If they do insist on it then I'll put something like "Took all steps as stated in my claimant commitment regarding looking for work". Should they require evidence then I can easily provide that via those emails sent to me.

by parker123 Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:09 pm

Miguel1975 wrote:My strategy with *oaches is to play their game and overwhelm them with information.

Exactly this. Send them pages and pages of nonsense, it doesn't mean anything its just a game.
But I don't know how/why you guys are emailing your work coaches, its something I've never personally had to do Shocked

And fair enough Tarquin, your approach should always be work coach specific as is mine but I just reserve the nuclear option (sending official guidance, freedom of information requests) for the very worst pain in the arse coaches, which thankfully have been rare in my experience. I like to keep a low profile if i can pirat

and my results have largely been them pretty much leaving me alone

Blend in, not stand out is my goal with them

by Tarquin Flotsam Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:36 pm

parker123 wrote:
But I don't know how/why you guys are emailing your work coaches, its something I've never personally had to do

One email sent to my work coach, before any face to face appointment (which was once a month), showing a screenshot of email replies to jobs applied for worked for me no problem, not once was I queried about adding nothing to my journal regarding job search activities. Certainly a better option than wasting my time entering all this information into the journal every day.

by parker123 Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:01 pm

Tarquin Flotsam wrote:Certainly a better option than wasting my time entering all this information into the journal every day.

Fair enough I definitely understand where youre coming from there

Of course if they do want to get funny about it, you always have the option to pop a message in your journal fortnightly or monthly; something like
"Job search evidence sent via Email to (theiremailaddress) on 10 March 2021"

Youre not giving them anything extra but at least it builds a positive image of you to any future decision maker looking at your account.

by D.Appleby Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:09 am

Thanks for the update TF. Very Happy

Pleased to read that DWP waters are presently calm and peaceful for the foreseeable future. Smile

by Pintel Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:54 pm

On a side note here.
We all know how unsecure phone networks are.
So might it be a good idea when the work Roach clown

calls. To ask them some 'security questions'?
JCP postcode
Full name
Etc

As every time I have been in the JCP

, and seen Roaches clown

that i have seen for years. I still get the security questions 🤨. So why not do the same for them

by Guest Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:32 pm

Pintel wrote:On a side note here.
We all know how unsecure phone networks are.
So might it be a good idea when the work Roach calls. To ask them some 'security questions'?
JCP postcode
Full name
Etc

As every time I have been in the JCP , and seen Roaches that i have seen for years. I still get the security questions 🤨. So why not do the same for them

Because unfortunately they call the shots.

by parker123 Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:09 pm

Miguel1975 wrote:Because unfortunately they call the shots.

Exactly. This forum appears to be full of bitter, paranoid anti-DWP claimants thinking everything and anything they do is a 'trap' or to 'trick them' its insane reading at times.

Are there some work coaches that are absoloute ****s and make some peoples lives unnecessarily more stressful by being general arse-holes? Yes of course, but there are people like this in any job or profession. Good and bad everywhere.

You (we) need to accept we don't have the ultimate power here, they do, like it or not its true. We recieve Universal Credit and there is conditionality attached. Don't like it, don't claim. Just keep your head down, try your best, do everything you reasonably can, dont be provocative, and for most people they will get along fine.

"So might it be a good idea when the work Roach clown calls. To ask them some 'security questions'?
JCP postcode
Full name
Etc"

What absolute insanity. I've had about 20 phone calls since the first lockdown last March and not once have I been asked to confirm any details.Why would you ever think doing something like this is a good idea?

by Tarquin Flotsam Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:30 am

parker123 wrote:Exactly. This forum appears to be full of bitter, paranoid anti-DWP claimants thinking everything and anything they do is a 'trap' or to 'trick them' its insane reading at times.

Maybe because most of these claimants have been "trapped" or "tricked" into doing something which is totally against DWP rules and regulations. Back at my old JCP I witnessed this a good few times with some of the outright lies claimants were being told by their supposed work coach.

parker123 wrote:Are there some work coaches that are absoloute ****s and make some peoples lives unnecessarily more stressful by being general arse-holes? Yes of course, but there are people like this in any job or profession. Good and bad everywhere.

In my experience, again at my previous JCP, the majority of work coaches were utter bastards. Some of us won't put up with being told lies and being coerced into something which is of no help whatsoever in trying to gain employment. One nasty piece of work I came across even admitted he wanted to put me on some course not because he felt that it would help me, but because he'd know exactly where I was every day. Basically, accusing me of cheating the system by doing paid work on the sly.

parker123 wrote:You (we) need to accept we don't have the ultimate power here, they do, like it or not its true. We recieve Universal Credit and there is conditionality attached. Don't like it, don't claim. Just keep your head down, try your best, do everything you reasonably can, dont be provocative, and for most people they will get along fine.

They certainly don't have "ultimate" power if they try to throw endless crap at you, saying "you must do this, you must do that", going against their rules and regulations, hoping you'll comply for their own advantage, not yours. Sorry, but I won't be keeping my head down and have any of that! They need to be taken to task, complaints made against them to either their manager or the district manager, to prevent them from making life hell for those who don't know any better.

Many claimants have stopped claiming, not because they "don't like it", but they cannot abide the relentless bullying anymore. I could tell you a few stories of some of the situations I've come across regarding claimants who are not mentally or physically well, and being treated like utter sh1t by these people who are supposed to be helping us.

by Pintel Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:40 am

parker123 wrote:
Miguel1975 wrote:Because unfortunately they call the shots.

"So might it be a good idea when the work Roach clown calls. To ask them some 'security questions'?
JCP postcode
Full name
Etc"

What absolute insanity. I've had about 20 phone calls since the first lockdown last March and not once have I been asked to confirm any details.Why would you ever think doing something like this is a good idea?

Strange #parker123. If this asking 'security questions' , where to quote you "absolute insanity". Then why do I get a barrage of security questions when I call the DWP call centre, and speak to my Work Roach that i have known for years????

Its like most things in life its "absolute insanity", until some claimant gets scammed. And then it becomes 'common sense'. As you commented, your work Roach , has been letting procedures slip and having double standards

by parker123 Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:10 pm

Pintel wrote:Strange #parker123. If this asking 'security questions' , where to quote you "absolute insanity". Then why do I get a barrage of security questions when I call the DWP call centre, and speak to my Work Roach that i have known for years????

Its like most things in life its "absolute insanity", until some claimant gets scammed. And then it becomes 'common sense'. As you commented, your work Roach , has been letting procedures slip and having double standards

I guess this is just a prime example of same country, same benefit, vastly different experience(s).

Why are you calling your work coach? I would expect if you're cold calling them and are asking to discuss something about your claim then they have every right to ask security questions. Otherwise anyone could ring up, pretend to be you and close your claim without your knowledge.

When they call me its a pre-arranged appointment (available to see on journal) on the number I have verified before, with email and text reminder 24 hours before the appointment. Nothing 'sensitive' is discussed and is just vaguely about my work search.

by parker123 Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:22 pm

@ Tarquin, I'm sure you make some good points I'm not a DWP defender or basher I'm neutral because thats what my whole experience has ever been with them.

And I guess there is a reason there seems to be around 4/5 regulars max on this forum? Long term claimants who have probably been abused and messed around by the DWP and have genuine grievances - but this doesnt mean this is reflected up and down the country for most people. Whats wrong with a bit of balanced debate?

My whole philosophy about the matter is choose your battles carefully. There is no need to fight them on absolutely everything because you will lose. Not everyone is out to get you. But if you identify someone who is (out to get you) then of course you need to do what you need to do. But like I said there is a reason this forum or any other forum doesnt have hundreds of members moaning about the same thing, because its rare.

David Foster-Wallace: "You'll worry less about what people think about you when you realize how seldom they do"

Most work coaches are just doing a job and dont care about you - I'm not saying thats a good or bad thing but they have hundreds of claimants and we're just numbers to them. Most work coaches dont get out of bed in the morning and decide to be an arse-hole to you personally, just doing a job

by Guest Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:44 pm

parker123 wrote:
Miguel1975 wrote:Because unfortunately they call the shots.

Exactly.

You are misquoting me.

by Tarquin Flotsam Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:21 pm

parker123 wrote:My whole philosophy about the matter is choose your battles carefully. There is no need to fight them on absolutely everything because you will lose. Not everyone is out to get you. But if you identify someone who is (out to get you) then of course you need to do what you need to do. But like I said there is a reason this forum or any other forum doesnt have hundreds of members moaning about the same thing, because its rare.

The reason this or any other (similar) forum doesn't have hundreds of members moaning about the same thing is because most claimants accept the crap they're given for a "quiet life", and will let the more malicious work coaches do as they wish. Also I will fight them on absolutely everything if that everything is something I do not find acceptable in any way. If I'm asked to do something reasonable, no problem, I'll do it. Also, not once have I lost when I've taken them to task. Sure I'll probably be marked as a troublesome claimant, sure they might try to make life a bit harder for me (like daily appointments) but as long as I'm not in the wrong they'll never win. Just because we're out of work there is no need to treat anyone like a piece of shite, which unfortunately I've been witness to too many times.

parker123 wrote:Most work coaches are just doing a job and dont care about you - I'm not saying thats a good or bad thing but they have hundreds of claimants and we're just numbers to them. Most work coaches dont get out of bed in the morning and decide to be an arse-hole to you personally, just doing a job

It's all about numbers to them, yes I agree on that, but they should be bloody caring about you, unfortunately many are quite the opposite and take great care to harass you as much as possible. Next time you see the DWP advertising for work coaches, look at what the job description is. I'm sure there'll be nothing about treating all claimants as just "numbers". Maybe most work coaches aren't like this, I can't speak for other jobcentres, but in my experience I've come across more nasty arseholes than helpful work coaches.

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