If your household makes a claim for the housing element of UC, will you naturally migrate from JSA?

by Gallazz Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:47 pm

I suspect the answer's yes

by **Admin** Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:40 pm

if they have claimed or are claiming already the housimg benefit everything should be the same its when you make a new claim for housing benefit then it becomes uc

unknown if it affects jsa claim but it shouldnt if your on a legacy claim already thats until you updated onto the new system of jsa uc i suspect what may happen is your name will get flagged up so roaches at dwp may push for your claim to be upgraded to a jsa uc claim

by Caker Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:08 pm

Am I right that someone in your household will be making a new claim for housing element Gallaz?

I am just wondering if we need a bit more detail to answer this one.

I presume the tenancy is in the name of the person you live with.

I presume you are not a partner of that person making the claim and holding the tenancy.

by Caker Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:19 pm

Moved to the 'ASSISTED SUPPORT WITH GENERAL DWP QUERIES' section where it might get more replies.

by Gallazz Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:23 pm

Caker wrote:Am I right that someone in your household will be making a new claim for housing element Gallaz?

I presume the tenancy is in the name of the person you live with.

I presume you are not a partner of that person making the claim and holding the tenancy.

All correct. Sorry for the lack of detail.

by Caker Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:06 pm

So if the tenant / housing element claimant is not your partner, I am not terribly clear how their claim is anything to do with yours. confused

by Gallazz Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:24 pm

I thought it might be because UC is a single payment to each household. So as long as the housing element claimant that you live with isn't your partner, it doesn't affect your legacy benefits?

by Caker Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:33 pm

Don't quote me on this one as I am not sure, but my understanding is that the meaning of 'household', in this context, is married couple or living together as if married.

I don't think it means people you just share a house with such as if you are a sub-tenant / lodger.

I am not sure what the situation is if you live with a parent. That needs to be clarified.

by Gallazz Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:55 pm

Caker wrote:Don't quote me on this one as I am not sure, but my understanding is that the meaning of 'household', in this context, is married couple or living together as if married

That's my understanding too. All I know is that on those grids which show different examples of scenarios which trigger migration to UC, only scenarios involving couples are covered, which suggests you won't be migrated unless the new HE claimant is your partner. But it does need to be clarified.

by Caker Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:57 pm

I have not seen the grids. Do you have a link please?

by Gallazz Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:16 pm

This sort of thing. I think the second one is exhaustive.

https://www.west-dunbarton.gov.uk/benefits-and-grants/welfare-reform/universal-credit/when-will-i-move-to-universal-credit/

https://www.newcastle.gov.uk/sites/default/files/wwwfileroot/benefits-and-council-tax/welfare-rights-and-money-advice/what_triggers_a_claim_for_universal_credit_in_a_full_service_area.pdf

by Absolut Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:07 am

The Newcastle document is the best I've seen.

No new claim for HB can be made. You can't mix legacy with UC housing element either. If you have an existing claim you can move house within the same 'full service' area without it apparently triggering a UC claim. BUT I wouldn't trust the DWP as far as I could throw them. I count all new circumstances as potential for them to shift people over onto UC. If they can find a way to get a claimant off legacy and onto UC they will and they will ignore any rules they can get away with.

by Non Deficere Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:26 am

I would suggest you contact the LA & DWP and ask for a reply in writing.

The natural migration lists are not exhaustive, which inevitably leads to mistakes.

You can claim circa £100-£200 if a mistake is made.

by Gallazz Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:15 am

I actually have spoken to people at the council about natural migration (including online) but they seem clueless and suggested I contact the DWP.

My council has an FOI officer who might be a better point of contact.

If they do migrate you in error, can they be obliged to reinstate your legacy claim?

by Non Deficere Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:12 pm

Gallazz wrote:Shall I write to the DWP at my Jobcentre's (updated) address on this document?

Contact your district manager:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/local-partnership-opportunities-with-jobcentre-plus/jobcentre-plus-district-managers-contacts-for-partnership-opportunities

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/574585/new-dwp-postal-addresses.pdf

I actually have spoken to people at the council about natural migration (including online) but they seem clueless and suggested I contact the DWP.

My council has an FOI officer who might be a better point of contact.

Bearing in mind the above response, I would contact DWP who make the rules.

If they do migrate you in error, can they be obliged to reinstate your legacy claim?

Unfortunately, not.

by Gallazz Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:10 am

Non Deficere wrote:
Gallazz wrote:Shall I write to the DWP at my Jobcentre's (updated) address on this document?

Contact your district manager:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/local-partnership-opportunities-with-jobcentre-plus/jobcentre-plus-district-managers-contacts-for-partnership-opportunities

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/574585/new-dwp-postal-addresses.pdf

I actually have spoken to people at the council about natural migration (including online) but they seem clueless and suggested I contact the DWP.

My council has an FOI officer who might be a better point of contact.

Bearing in mind the above response, I would contact DWP who make the rules.

If they do migrate you in error, can they be obliged to reinstate your legacy claim?

Unfortunately, not.

Brilliant once again, ND.

by Gallazz Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:45 am

First thing I've found that seems to say that when one person claims UC, anyone they live with will be subject to natural migration:

Natural Migration –This occurs when a claimant reports a natural migration qualifying change of circumstance to their Legacy benefit, for example when moving from sick to out of work or claimant is no longer a full time carer. As Universal Credit is a household benefit, this would also trigger the closure of all legacy benefits that Universal Credit is replacing for others in the household.

http://www.nypartnerships.org.uk/sites/default/files/Partnership%20files/Learning%20disabilities/Learning%20disability%20provider%20forum/Universal%20credit.pdf

by Caker Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:35 am

I would think that applies to family members in a household but not lodgers. However, I am not an expert and that requires further clarity.

It says that natural migration occurs when a claimant reports a change of circumstances. It is not you reporting a change of circumstances, but someone in your home who is not your spouse / living together as spouse.

If it is their circumstances changing, but not yours, then I don't think natural migration will apply to you in this case. I could be wrong if I have missed anything or got anything wrong.

by Gallazz Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:36 pm

Sorry for the late reply, Caker, and thank you for yours. It is a family member who may have to claim UC in the near future. Although the sentence I highlighted sounds unequivocal, it's not altogether clear because as you say, it's not me reporting a change of circumstances, and although it's a common enough scenario, family members and housemates makng claims for UC isn't covered on the 'natural migrations lists'.

So contacting my district manager might not be the best idea if natural migration lawfully applies - doing so might just flag something up that that might have slipped through the net. In other words, I think perhaps I should only contact the district manager if I feel confident that NM would not apply.

If NM applied (or they decided it did), would the DWP just close my legacy claim straight away?

by Gallazz Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:19 pm

Gallazz wrote:First thing I've found that seems to say that when one person claims UC, anyone they live with will be subject to natural migration:

Natural Migration –This occurs when a claimant reports a natural migration qualifying change of circumstance to their Legacy benefit, for example when moving from sick to out of work or claimant is no longer a full time carer. As Universal Credit is a household benefit, this would also trigger the closure of all legacy benefits that Universal Credit is replacing for others in the household.

http://www.nypartnerships.org.uk/sites/default/files/Partnership%20files/Learning%20disabilities/Learning%20disability%20provider%20forum/Universal%20credit.pdf

Very late, but probably still worth an update:

I think the highlihted statement is either false, or the term 'household' means 'couple', as Caker suggested. It is almost a year since my relative claimed UC and it's had no effect on my JSA claim.

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If your household makes a claim for the housing element of UC, will you naturally migrate from JSA?

If your household makes a claim for the housing element of UC, will you naturally migrate from JSA?

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Re: If your household makes a claim for the housing element of UC, will you naturally migrate from JSA?

Re: If your household makes a claim for the housing element of UC, will you naturally migrate from JSA?

Re: If your household makes a claim for the housing element of UC, will you naturally migrate from JSA?

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Re: If your household makes a claim for the housing element of UC, will you naturally migrate from JSA?

Re: If your household makes a claim for the housing element of UC, will you naturally migrate from JSA?

Re: If your household makes a claim for the housing element of UC, will you naturally migrate from JSA?

Re: If your household makes a claim for the housing element of UC, will you naturally migrate from JSA?

Re: If your household makes a claim for the housing element of UC, will you naturally migrate from JSA?

Re: If your household makes a claim for the housing element of UC, will you naturally migrate from JSA?

Re: If your household makes a claim for the housing element of UC, will you naturally migrate from JSA?

Re: If your household makes a claim for the housing element of UC, will you naturally migrate from JSA?