UC journal tips for optimal use and management
+6
Non Deficere
MrFrankZola
Welfare-Champion
ABC
eightsmileshigh
Caker
10 posters
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Re: UC journal tips for optimal use and management
Indeed this is true because I sent several messages to my current work roach a few weeks ago regarding a back payment. She was off work sick and didn't see those messages, they were only seen when I was at my next appointment, a week later, with a different roach and by then the problem had been resolved.Staff are not notified when claimants leave messages on their online journal; for example, if they wish to challenge payment errors. As a result, messages sent to officials can go unanswered for days or weeks unless claimants pursue the inquiry by phone.
Of course if they message you on the journal and you haven't logged in to see it/replied to it, it's a totally different matter! Twice they've called me to let me know I have a message waiting to be seen.
Regarding the journal itself, I pointed out quite clearly at my claimant commitment appointment I would be taking screenshots of email responses to jobs applied, and I could either print those out to show her or she gives me her email so I can send them directly to her. The option to upload to the journal would have made this much easier, so I created a separate email account for emailing her the screenshots.
There's very little activity shown on my journal, I don't put in everything I've been doing the past few weeks looking for work like many are asked/told to do, detailing how long each application took etc etc. The job applications section is completely empty! My main use of it is for contacting my work roach querying anything. I certainly don't log into it every day...
Tarquin Flotsam- Posts : 134
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Re: UC journal tips for optimal use and management
Caker wrote:Non Deficere wrote:Although the system is equipped to receive scanned documents, claimants instead are told to present paper evidence used to verify their claim, such as medical reports, either at the local job centre or through the post, further slowing down the payment process.
Quite recently I asked what I would need to do if I could not attend an appointment due to illness. I was incorrectly advised that in that situation I would need to take a medical certificate into the JC (I live in a different town!!) or I should get someone else to bring the certificate in person. I don't know anyone in the JC town or anyone who ever goes there. I believe the JC worker was being obstructive and has a history of making misleading statements.
you cant unload documents anymore ....
https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/14288/
25 March 2019, 02:30 pm
Peter Turville
forum member
Welfare Rights Worker, Oxford Community Work Agency
Bristol service centre is now refusing to allow claimants to upload documents to their account. This had not previously been an issue.
Apparently following an internal email from the SIL (service improvement lead (sic)) team dated 25/1/19 this facility was withdrawn for all documents except CVs and childcare costs. The only option to supply docs is to make an appointment at the Jobcentre or via the freepost address. Apparently this new guidance / policy is due to workload management issues.
Are others experiencing the same issue with other service centres?
DWP Response
“It is not a change in policy, it should have always been the case.
Due to security/data protection reasons, the only documents the customers should be uploading are their CV’s & childcare costs.
Anything else will either need to be posted or bought into the Jobcentre.”
26 March 2019, 04:33 pm
Jeremy Barker
So why isn’t there a data protection issue with uploading CV’s and childcare cost? More of Operation Obstruct’?
This looks like the well-known “Data protection doesn’t allow it.” argument that is often misused to try to justify not doing something that is perfectly acceptable under data protection law (whether the old DPA or GDPR)..
Non Deficere- Posts : 724
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Re: UC journal tips for optimal use and management
I agree with JB.
Caker- Posts : 1819
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Re: UC journal tips for optimal use and management
Tip 3
If you do go down the route of uploading a CV to your journal (even though it is not mandatory), uploading an encrypted (password protected) pdf will show in the journal as 'document upload completed' but the screen that the JC worker sees will show an empty box. This can be passed off as 'an error of DWP systems' and something they need to discuss with their tech' dept'
Caker- Posts : 1819
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Re: UC journal tips for optimal use and management
If you have had a doubt raised by your work coach or a mandatory scheme provider, based on very recent experience your UC Journal can be a quick way of getting information to the Decison Maker. Snail mail can take 7+ days.
Non Deficere- Posts : 724
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Re: UC journal tips for optimal use and management
Tip 4
When you make an entry about a job, you will be presented with options:
* Interested
* Applied
* interview
* Successful
* Unsuccessful
Always choose 'applied' (make sure you have applied to any job you enter).
The others look like sanction traps. For instance, if you choose 'interested' there will be a further box for the closure date of that job. If you miss that deadline you will likely be asked why you did not apply. Don't choose 'interested'.
If you choose 'interview' then there is a box for the date of the interview. This is handy if you have something else on that date and you just want an excuse to not have a JC appt on that date. If questioned about proof of interview, you can always say the employer rang you, so there is no invite letter to show
With regards to 'unsuccessful' I would not choose that option as I think it might be used for monitoring purposes to pick out jobs for which you were not successful. This might attract further scrutiny from your JC worker. Don't choose it. If you were not offered that job it is a no brainer that you were unsuccessful without ticking a box
With regards to 'successful', there is really no need to tick that one. If you get a job, it is irrelevant for the DWP to know which application it was
So there really are only 2 to choose from 'Applied' or 'interview'.
Caker- Posts : 1819
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Re: UC journal tips for optimal use and management
Caker wrote:@ABC - if this thread gets too long I/anyone else can start a new one with the same title. When I post a 'tip' I will number it so anyone can scroll through and not miss any. That should help to keep track.
@Frank Z - I would recommend that everyone takes screenshots every time they make any entry or get any appointment. In fact I can think of nothing I would not take screenshots of; I am accumulating quite a file of them, just in case of any issue.
UC Journal entries
"DWP Work Coaches cannot delete journal messages from claimants"
"Please find the attached information about the ‘Deleting journal entries’ and ‘Right of Access
Request’.
Deleted text entries [by a 'coach'] can be recovered within the life of the claim and for up to 14 months fol-
lowing claim closure. Only DWP staff with specific privileges can view and recover deleted en-
tries. Deleted entries are retained in line with the whole data set. Universal Credit (UC) retains
data for 14 months post claim closure"
www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/537363/response/1352056/attach/html/5/FOI2019%2012504%20Reply.pdf.html
Coach entry: Your next appointment is 3/5/2019 at 3pm time stamp 23/4/19 15:00
(this can be deleted from claimant view)
Claimant reply: Thanks for your message "Your next appointment is 3/5/2019 at 3pm time stamp 23/4/19 15:00"
(this cannot be deleted removed from claimant and 'coach' view)
More also here.
MrFrankZola- Posts : 175
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Re: UC journal tips for optimal use and management
Can anyone produce a list of all the references to legislation and advice that says signing up to a UC Journal is not a requirement for claiming UC?
Doesn't anyone believe it?
My tip would be not to sign up for it in the first place.
We went through all this crap with UJM for years and finally DWP had to concede defeat. All sorts of devious schemes and ‘tips’ were devised to overcome its worst excesses but that didn’t stop many of those who signed up for it being sanctioned. Most never even had the gumption to fight to reclaim what was rightfully theirs and illegally withheld from them.
Anyone with a penchant for screen shots need only have one, framed if they like, ready and handy to be shown to any JCP flunky whenever the occasion arises:
“Show me where in law it states that I must do that”.
Doesn't anyone believe it?
My tip would be not to sign up for it in the first place.
We went through all this crap with UJM for years and finally DWP had to concede defeat. All sorts of devious schemes and ‘tips’ were devised to overcome its worst excesses but that didn’t stop many of those who signed up for it being sanctioned. Most never even had the gumption to fight to reclaim what was rightfully theirs and illegally withheld from them.
Anyone with a penchant for screen shots need only have one, framed if they like, ready and handy to be shown to any JCP flunky whenever the occasion arises:
“Show me where in law it states that I must do that”.
Committed Claimant- Posts : 149
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Re: UC journal tips for optimal use and management
CC: "My tip would be not to sign up for it in the first place. "
ND: "This is a good reason for not using your Journal to record your work search"
https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t3601p50-what-is-a-35-hours-jobsearch#9867
The Journal is integrated into the online UC account, alongside a 'to do' list and when new entries are made by a 'coach' an alert is sent to the claimants email address, with options to get notifications via text.
My preference would be to have no mention of the Journal in a CC and then use it as I see fit. There are a number of FOI requests that maybe helpful on the Journal at
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/ there is a related one on a claimant being able to express a preference* on how they are contacted but the DWP had said they have no intention to change the design of UC which includes automated email and text reminders being sent to claimants.
*preferences under the control of the DWP
The DWP is getting 'better' at integrating digital channels to 'support' UC in ways that appear to give claimants no options, when in fact there are. A good example is the commitments form [link] that has been integrated into new online UC claims and includes an option to upload a CV (or create short one on the fly via a text box). This form if completed gives the 'coach' personal data to generate a new CC, remembering that UC legislation only requires a CC to be 'accepted' and this can be by many means like face to face at Jobcentre 'coach' appointment (verbally), phone, email, UCJournal and legacy signing.
There is no UC claim requirement to provide a copy of one's CV for the DWP to retain (paper or digital copy), but they are devising ways that is difficult not to do so, (digital copy via a CC action or when making a claim) unless you are fully informed. Such as only agreeing to show a printed copy or on the screen of one's own device. [link]
When a new UC claim is made online the claimant is given a fake communications preference of being contacted by email or text. Though if one chooses text and then the number is lost/changes whether it defaults back to email is unclear.
"DWP will usually get in touch with claimants by their preferred method of contact"
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/559269/response/1342939/attach/html/2/WDTK%20Template%2010163.pdf.html
Below is an example of how the DWP consider what is a usual "method of contact"
"Please provide a copy of your guidance, policy and training material for UC journal use
by Work 'Coaches' and whether a claimant can choose not to consent to being notified
of new entries via email or sms/text and how a claimant should notify the DWP they no
longer consent?
Please find the attached information about the UC claimant journal.
The service has been designed to ensure notifications reach the claimant when they are
required to take action or review their claim. With this in mind it is not optional if we ask the
claimant to do something and not sending a reminder would not fit with the design of UC. This
is a deliberate design decision and we have no plans to change this. "
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/537363/response/1352056/attach/html/5/FOI2019%2012504%20Reply.pdf.html
ND: "This is a good reason for not using your Journal to record your work search"
https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t3601p50-what-is-a-35-hours-jobsearch#9867
The Journal is integrated into the online UC account, alongside a 'to do' list and when new entries are made by a 'coach' an alert is sent to the claimants email address, with options to get notifications via text.
My preference would be to have no mention of the Journal in a CC and then use it as I see fit. There are a number of FOI requests that maybe helpful on the Journal at
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/ there is a related one on a claimant being able to express a preference* on how they are contacted but the DWP had said they have no intention to change the design of UC which includes automated email and text reminders being sent to claimants.
*preferences under the control of the DWP
The DWP is getting 'better' at integrating digital channels to 'support' UC in ways that appear to give claimants no options, when in fact there are. A good example is the commitments form [link] that has been integrated into new online UC claims and includes an option to upload a CV (or create short one on the fly via a text box). This form if completed gives the 'coach' personal data to generate a new CC, remembering that UC legislation only requires a CC to be 'accepted' and this can be by many means like face to face at Jobcentre 'coach' appointment (verbally), phone, email, UCJournal and legacy signing.
There is no UC claim requirement to provide a copy of one's CV for the DWP to retain (paper or digital copy), but they are devising ways that is difficult not to do so, (digital copy via a CC action or when making a claim) unless you are fully informed. Such as only agreeing to show a printed copy or on the screen of one's own device. [link]
When a new UC claim is made online the claimant is given a fake communications preference of being contacted by email or text. Though if one chooses text and then the number is lost/changes whether it defaults back to email is unclear.
"DWP will usually get in touch with claimants by their preferred method of contact"
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/559269/response/1342939/attach/html/2/WDTK%20Template%2010163.pdf.html
Below is an example of how the DWP consider what is a usual "method of contact"
"Please provide a copy of your guidance, policy and training material for UC journal use
by Work 'Coaches' and whether a claimant can choose not to consent to being notified
of new entries via email or sms/text and how a claimant should notify the DWP they no
longer consent?
Please find the attached information about the UC claimant journal.
The service has been designed to ensure notifications reach the claimant when they are
required to take action or review their claim. With this in mind it is not optional if we ask the
claimant to do something and not sending a reminder would not fit with the design of UC. This
is a deliberate design decision and we have no plans to change this. "
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/537363/response/1352056/attach/html/5/FOI2019%2012504%20Reply.pdf.html
MrFrankZola- Posts : 175
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Re: UC journal tips for optimal use and management
Mr F
You have rightly acknowledged that both ND and I have accepted that there are grounds for not signing up to The Universal Credit Journal.
You also appear to be acknowledging that your preference would be to have no mention of the Journal in a CC. There is a ‘but’ in your acknowledgment of your preference however, and that is that you may use it as you see fit, on your terms as it were, but DWP can’t. One is either in or out, one would find it difficult to use it as one sees fit with the partner in the agreement having no choices whatever.
Sounds a bit like the EU debate. We’ll stay in the Union on our terms or we’ll leave on our terms, take it or leave it. OK we’ll leave it. Right, we’ll jump of the cliff, we’ll be dead but you’ll be sorry.
One has a legal right to decide on how they prefer to be contacted, that applies when one is not signed up to UCJ.
When one is signed up to UCJ that right is, by the very nature and purpose of UCJ, curtailed.
The right to decide on how to present evidence of job seeking activity is also curtailed, should another example of how UCJ erodes one’s rights be needed.
What’s next? one might well ask. I think we can see what’s coming, the Forum seems to be filling up with references to it. Photo ID appears to be the order of the day. CCTV on every corner recording every step one takes in any half decent town or city. One comes staggering out of a Witherspoons, after partaking liberally of their delights after a heavy lunch, only to find, the next time one visits JCP a week or more later, that the coach has evidence of one’s activity, which is not what one has written on one’s UCJ. S/he has recognised one in the melee from one’s photo ID.
The law supports our stance. DWP does not, or at least they make every effort to dispel claimants of the notion that they do have that right.
That begs the question; how do we make the case, and put it out there, that our preference has legal backing and can and will prevail? That is the question.
It should not be for us to justify, aid or otherwise encourage the DWP in its efforts to deny us our legal rights, should we choose to exercise our preferences.
You have rightly acknowledged that both ND and I have accepted that there are grounds for not signing up to The Universal Credit Journal.
You also appear to be acknowledging that your preference would be to have no mention of the Journal in a CC. There is a ‘but’ in your acknowledgment of your preference however, and that is that you may use it as you see fit, on your terms as it were, but DWP can’t. One is either in or out, one would find it difficult to use it as one sees fit with the partner in the agreement having no choices whatever.
Sounds a bit like the EU debate. We’ll stay in the Union on our terms or we’ll leave on our terms, take it or leave it. OK we’ll leave it. Right, we’ll jump of the cliff, we’ll be dead but you’ll be sorry.
One has a legal right to decide on how they prefer to be contacted, that applies when one is not signed up to UCJ.
When one is signed up to UCJ that right is, by the very nature and purpose of UCJ, curtailed.
The right to decide on how to present evidence of job seeking activity is also curtailed, should another example of how UCJ erodes one’s rights be needed.
What’s next? one might well ask. I think we can see what’s coming, the Forum seems to be filling up with references to it. Photo ID appears to be the order of the day. CCTV on every corner recording every step one takes in any half decent town or city. One comes staggering out of a Witherspoons, after partaking liberally of their delights after a heavy lunch, only to find, the next time one visits JCP a week or more later, that the coach has evidence of one’s activity, which is not what one has written on one’s UCJ. S/he has recognised one in the melee from one’s photo ID.
The law supports our stance. DWP does not, or at least they make every effort to dispel claimants of the notion that they do have that right.
That begs the question; how do we make the case, and put it out there, that our preference has legal backing and can and will prevail? That is the question.
It should not be for us to justify, aid or otherwise encourage the DWP in its efforts to deny us our legal rights, should we choose to exercise our preferences.
Committed Claimant- Posts : 149
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Re: UC journal tips for optimal use and management
CC Can you quote where ND has said UC Journal can be totally ignored and not included in a UC CC?
“It is not a mandatory requirement for the claimant to provide the required work search evidence via their journal...
It is not mandatory for the claimant to upload their CV onto the journal...”
Source: ‘Using a netbook or digital screen device to provide evidence’ – DWP FOI reply 4201 – 20 October 2017
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/435142/response/1056696/attach/html/2/4201%20reply.pdf.html
When making a new claim, how can the UC Journal and 'to do' list be ignored, as they are both part of a UC online account and integrated into all online claims? Am asking for practical ways to not use the online UC Journal and 'to do' list, during a new claim and before the first face to face meeting with a 'coach'? The 'to do' list includes a CV upload and completion of questions relating to creation of a CC.
An example of a practical way to defeat DWP objectives, is likes of the above FOI reply/DWP opinion on the UC Journal regarding a CV upload and work search records:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/435142/response/1056696/attach/html/2/4201%20reply.pdf.html
When I refer to "I", that is about a personal choice/preference and everyone else is free to make own choices and exercise preferences. Happy to hear of a way UCJ and the UC 'To-Do' list can be totally ignored and excluded from a CC, beyond opinion but actual examples from a UC claimant (1st or 2nd hand ok) or via DWP's own opinion.
CC "When one is signed up to UCJ" one does not 'sign-up' as such, it is integrated into everyones' online UC account.
Brexit is a very simple in out choice?
For additional UC claimant views on the UCJ journal check out:
Benefits of using the Universal Credit Journal?
https://welfare-central.org/index.php/forum-home/universal-credit/3277-benefits-of-using-the-universal-credit-journal
Universal Credit journal FAQ’s
https://welfare-central.org/index.php/forum-home/universal-credit/1528-universal-credit-journal-faq-s
“It is not a mandatory requirement for the claimant to provide the required work search evidence via their journal...
It is not mandatory for the claimant to upload their CV onto the journal...”
Source: ‘Using a netbook or digital screen device to provide evidence’ – DWP FOI reply 4201 – 20 October 2017
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/435142/response/1056696/attach/html/2/4201%20reply.pdf.html
When making a new claim, how can the UC Journal and 'to do' list be ignored, as they are both part of a UC online account and integrated into all online claims? Am asking for practical ways to not use the online UC Journal and 'to do' list, during a new claim and before the first face to face meeting with a 'coach'? The 'to do' list includes a CV upload and completion of questions relating to creation of a CC.
An example of a practical way to defeat DWP objectives, is likes of the above FOI reply/DWP opinion on the UC Journal regarding a CV upload and work search records:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/435142/response/1056696/attach/html/2/4201%20reply.pdf.html
When I refer to "I", that is about a personal choice/preference and everyone else is free to make own choices and exercise preferences. Happy to hear of a way UCJ and the UC 'To-Do' list can be totally ignored and excluded from a CC, beyond opinion but actual examples from a UC claimant (1st or 2nd hand ok) or via DWP's own opinion.
CC "When one is signed up to UCJ" one does not 'sign-up' as such, it is integrated into everyones' online UC account.
Brexit is a very simple in out choice?
For additional UC claimant views on the UCJ journal check out:
Benefits of using the Universal Credit Journal?
https://welfare-central.org/index.php/forum-home/universal-credit/3277-benefits-of-using-the-universal-credit-journal
Universal Credit journal FAQ’s
https://welfare-central.org/index.php/forum-home/universal-credit/1528-universal-credit-journal-faq-s
MrFrankZola- Posts : 175
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Re: UC journal tips for optimal use and management
"The law supports our stance. DWP does not, or at least they make every effort to dispel claimants of the notion that they do have that right.
That begs the question; how do we make the case, and put it out there, that our preference has legal backing and can and will prevail? That is the question."
Useful approach, when unpacking issues. Can a claimant outright refuse to provide/show their CV to a 'coach', with no risks of sanctions, claim closure or claim suspension, as no social security law makes any reference to a CV, or am I wrong and it is included in social security law for likes of JSA and UC? How can a claimant 'evidence' having an up to date CV, yet not provide/show their CV to a 'coach'?
As part of a multi prong strategy an FOI request can be made (even if the 'answer' is known) asking for information on the likes of 'what legislation mentions a UC Journal'.
Universal Jobmatch (UJ) did not exist in any legislation, but that did not stop the DWP issuing a jobseeker-direction to register with it, create a profile and upload a 'public' CV or face benefit sanctions, when a claimant declined to do so and had no 'good reason' for not doing so.
That begs the question; how do we make the case, and put it out there, that our preference has legal backing and can and will prevail? That is the question."
Useful approach, when unpacking issues. Can a claimant outright refuse to provide/show their CV to a 'coach', with no risks of sanctions, claim closure or claim suspension, as no social security law makes any reference to a CV, or am I wrong and it is included in social security law for likes of JSA and UC? How can a claimant 'evidence' having an up to date CV, yet not provide/show their CV to a 'coach'?
As part of a multi prong strategy an FOI request can be made (even if the 'answer' is known) asking for information on the likes of 'what legislation mentions a UC Journal'.
Universal Jobmatch (UJ) did not exist in any legislation, but that did not stop the DWP issuing a jobseeker-direction to register with it, create a profile and upload a 'public' CV or face benefit sanctions, when a claimant declined to do so and had no 'good reason' for not doing so.
MrFrankZola- Posts : 175
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Join date : 2017-05-28
Re: UC journal tips for optimal use and management
Mr F
“CC Can you quote where ND has said UC Journal can be totally ignored and not included in a UC CC?”
I can’t quote where ND said that, nor have I said that he ever did, if that is what you are implying.
What I did say was: “You have rightly acknowledged that both ND and I have accepted that there are grounds for not signing up to The Universal Credit Journal.”
What ND actually said was: “This is a good reason for not using your Journal to record your work search.” He goes on to give those reasons. He wrote this in a post this morning.
You repeated that remark word for word in your post also this morning, you even added a link to where he posted it. If you read your own post you will find it. Sometimes it seems to me that you don’t follow this discussion but just throw a spanner in as you pass by.
The ‘What do they know’ link that you provided says exactly what you quote:
“It is not a mandatory requirement for the claimant to provide the required work search evidence via their journal...
“It is not mandatory for the claimant to upload their CV onto the journal...”
Not only did I know that, but I’ve been repeating it regularly during discussions. It also appears in many of the numerous links that you and others have posted. I don’t understand why you post it again here now, what do you want me to say or do about it?
I’m not sure whether the rest of your posts refers to what you think, your impressions of what you have read, your interpretation of anything I may have said, or what. I can just about manage to answer questions if put one at a time preferably. I can also answer for anything I said. I can’t answer for anything you claim that I said but didn’t say.
To that end I am baffled by what you mean by this:
“Useful approach, when unpacking issues. Can a claimant outright refuse to provide/show their CV to a 'coach', with no risks of sanctions, claim closure or claim suspension, as no social security law makes any reference to a CV, or am I wrong and it is included in social security law for likes of JSA and UC? How can a claimant 'evidence' having an up to date CV, yet not provide/show their CV to a 'coach'?”
Are you referring to something you believe I said, asking me, or telling me something?
“CC Can you quote where ND has said UC Journal can be totally ignored and not included in a UC CC?”
I can’t quote where ND said that, nor have I said that he ever did, if that is what you are implying.
What I did say was: “You have rightly acknowledged that both ND and I have accepted that there are grounds for not signing up to The Universal Credit Journal.”
What ND actually said was: “This is a good reason for not using your Journal to record your work search.” He goes on to give those reasons. He wrote this in a post this morning.
You repeated that remark word for word in your post also this morning, you even added a link to where he posted it. If you read your own post you will find it. Sometimes it seems to me that you don’t follow this discussion but just throw a spanner in as you pass by.
The ‘What do they know’ link that you provided says exactly what you quote:
“It is not a mandatory requirement for the claimant to provide the required work search evidence via their journal...
“It is not mandatory for the claimant to upload their CV onto the journal...”
Not only did I know that, but I’ve been repeating it regularly during discussions. It also appears in many of the numerous links that you and others have posted. I don’t understand why you post it again here now, what do you want me to say or do about it?
I’m not sure whether the rest of your posts refers to what you think, your impressions of what you have read, your interpretation of anything I may have said, or what. I can just about manage to answer questions if put one at a time preferably. I can also answer for anything I said. I can’t answer for anything you claim that I said but didn’t say.
To that end I am baffled by what you mean by this:
“Useful approach, when unpacking issues. Can a claimant outright refuse to provide/show their CV to a 'coach', with no risks of sanctions, claim closure or claim suspension, as no social security law makes any reference to a CV, or am I wrong and it is included in social security law for likes of JSA and UC? How can a claimant 'evidence' having an up to date CV, yet not provide/show their CV to a 'coach'?”
Are you referring to something you believe I said, asking me, or telling me something?
Committed Claimant- Posts : 149
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Re: UC journal tips for optimal use and management
Committed Claimant wrote:You have rightly acknowledged that both ND and I have accepted that there are grounds for not signing up to The Universal Credit Journal.
I should make clear that the UC journal is an integral feature within the UC online account, so there is no option about having that feature when making a claim. It is not a seperate thing like UJM used to be and FAJ now is.
Having said that, no one is obliged to use it to leave messages, but I have no idea if a claimant can opt out of receiving messages in UCj.
Caker- Posts : 1819
Points : 2423
Reputation : 270
Join date : 2017-04-14
Re: UC journal tips for optimal use and management
Committed Claimant wrote:
To that end I am baffled by what you mean by this:
“Can a claimant outright refuse to provide/show their CV to a 'coach', with no risks of sanctions, claim closure or claim suspension, as no social security law makes any reference to a CV, or am I wrong and it is included in social security law for likes of JSA and UC? How can a claimant 'evidence' having an up to date CV, yet not provide/show their CV to a 'coach'?”
Are you referring to something you believe I said, asking me, or telling me something?
CC: Apologies if not clear, but please interpret as you or any one else wishes to.
MrFrankZola- Posts : 175
Points : 251
Reputation : 26
Join date : 2017-05-28
Re: UC journal tips for optimal use and management
Caker wrote:Committed Claimant wrote:You have rightly acknowledged that both ND and I have accepted that there are grounds for not signing up to The Universal Credit Journal.
I should make clear that the UC journal is an integral feature within the UC online account, so there is no option about having that feature when making a claim. It is not a seperate thing like UJM used to be and FAJ now is.
Having said that, no one is obliged to use it to leave messages, but I have no idea if a claimant can opt out of receiving messages in UCj.
Hi Caker, has the Journal ever been used to inform you of a new required action, that has not been communicated before by any other means?
Do you get alerts of new Journal and 'to-do' activities/messages by automated emails or sms/text?
Do you ever get 'to-do' activities through your UC account that, that have not been communicated before by any other means?
Have never said "there are grounds for not signing up to The Universal Credit Journal", there are DWP stated opinions about not using the Journal to upload a CV or submit work search records via the UCJ. "signing up" is not the best way of referring to UCJ as it is integrated into everyone's UC account along with the 'to-do' list.
As said
"When making a new claim, how can the UC Journal and 'to do' list be ignored, as they are both part of a UC online account and integrated into all online claims? Am asking for practical ways to not use the online UC Journal and 'to do' list, during a new claim and before the first face to face meeting with a 'coach'? The 'to do' list includes a CV upload and completion of questions relating to creation of a CC."
This is a question for anyone who wishes to reply, as pondering on ways a new UC claimant can be fully informed of the online UC claim processes and choices that do exist.
MrFrankZola- Posts : 175
Points : 251
Reputation : 26
Join date : 2017-05-28
Re: UC journal tips for optimal use and management
MrFrankZola wrote:Caker wrote:Committed Claimant wrote:You have rightly acknowledged that both ND and I have accepted that there are grounds for not signing up to The Universal Credit Journal.
I should make clear that the UC journal is an integral feature within the UC online account, so there is no option about having that feature when making a claim. It is not a seperate thing like UJM used to be and FAJ now is.
Having said that, no one is obliged to use it to leave messages, but I have no idea if a claimant can opt out of receiving messages in UCj.
Hi Caker, has the Journal ever been used to inform you of a new required action, that has not been communicated before by any other means?
Yes.
Do you get alerts of new Journal and 'to-do' activities/messages by automated emails or sms/text?
emails.
Do you ever get 'to-do' activities through your UC account that, that have not been communicated before by any other means?
Not yet.
Have never said "there are grounds for not signing up to The Universal Credit Journal", there are DWP stated opinions about not using the Journal to upload a CV or submit work search records via the UCJ. "signing up" is not the best way of referring to UCJ as it is integrated into everyone's UC account along with the 'to-do' list.
As said
"When making a new claim, how can the UC Journal and 'to do' list be ignored, as they are both part of a UC online account and integrated into all online claims? Am asking for practical ways to not use the online UC Journal and 'to do' list, during a new claim and before the first face to face meeting with a 'coach'? The 'to do' list includes a CV upload and completion of questions relating to creation of a CC."
This is a question for anyone who wishes to reply, as pondering on ways a new UC claimant can be fully informed of the online UC claim processes and choices that do exist.
Caker- Posts : 1819
Points : 2423
Reputation : 270
Join date : 2017-04-14
Re: UC journal tips for optimal use and management
[quote="Caker"][quote="MrFrankZola"][quote="Caker"]
Hi Caker,
Thanks for the update, Can you say what kind of new specific requirements (mandatory actions) that you got via the Journal and details of how they state the date they had to be completed by and what sanctions that could apply if not completed?
Plus, if possible, what are the precise words used in your CC that mention the Journal and the UC account?
Frank
Committed Claimant wrote:
Hi Caker, has the Journal ever been used to inform you of a new required action, that has not been communicated before by any other means?
Yes.
Do you get alerts of new Journal and 'to-do' activities/messages by automated emails or sms/text?
emails.
Do you ever get 'to-do' activities through your UC account that, that have not been communicated before by any other means?
Not yet.
Hi Caker,
Thanks for the update, Can you say what kind of new specific requirements (mandatory actions) that you got via the Journal and details of how they state the date they had to be completed by and what sanctions that could apply if not completed?
Plus, if possible, what are the precise words used in your CC that mention the Journal and the UC account?
Frank
MrFrankZola- Posts : 175
Points : 251
Reputation : 26
Join date : 2017-05-28
Re: UC journal tips for optimal use and management
@Frank
I was mandated to upload a CV.
to do list:
"upload you CV here by (date)"
cc: I will upload a CV to my universal credit journal.
I was mandated to upload a CV.
to do list:
"upload you CV here by (date)"
cc: I will upload a CV to my universal credit journal.
Caker- Posts : 1819
Points : 2423
Reputation : 270
Join date : 2017-04-14
Re: UC journal tips for optimal use and management
Thanks, appreciate need to focus on the UCJ communicated jobs here https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t3601p50-what-is-a-35-hours-jobsearch#9913Caker wrote:......but things have now moved on and now I have been given a load of jobs, cut and pasted from job sites with a 'request' to apply for them. There are no dates and really nothing else. They are in the UC journal as messages, not in the 'to do list'.
Good to have found
"must be jobs that the claimant can reasonably do based on their individual skills, ability, location, capabilities and capacity and their own resource and should normally be discussed with the claimant at work search review. The claimant would have to show a good reason why a particular vacancy is unsuitable in their good reason for any failure, for example the job required a skill or qualification the claimant did not have."
https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t3601p50-what-is-a-35-hours-jobsearch#9913
Less sure about issues of 'temperament' that may not have been discussed before, with regards a claimants restrictions, check out
Circumstances that may show good reason for a failure to comply with a requirement to take up or apply for paid work ................................ K2151 onwards
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/787447/admk2.pdf
Chapter K2: Good reason > https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/advice-for-decision-making-staff-guide
Looks highly questionable whether the jobs sent to you via UCJ "gives the claimant the best prospects of obtaining work." https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/376/regulation/95/made
Work search requirement and work availability requirement - limitations
4) Where a claimant has previously carried out work of a particular nature, or at a particular level of remuneration, a work search requirement and a work availability requirement must be limited to work of a similar nature, or level of remuneration, for such period as the Secretary of State considers appropriate, but only if the Secretary of State is satisfied that the claimant will have reasonable prospects of obtaining paid work in spite of such limitation.
(5) The limitation in paragraph (4) is to apply for no more than 3 months beginning with—
(a) the date of claim; or
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/376/regulation/97/made
Not to have discussed these specific jobs with you, at a work search review, is bad form.Does the CC mention applying for jobs messaged about via UCJ?
With or without your 'coach' knowing your ' individual skills, ability, location, capabilities and capacity and qualification' how have they reached the implicit opinion you are suitable for these vacancies?
MrFrankZola- Posts : 175
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Join date : 2017-05-28
Re: UC journal tips for optimal use and management
DATA REMOVER FOR SECURITY PURPOSES
Last edited by Caker on Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
Caker- Posts : 1819
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Join date : 2017-04-14
Re: UC journal tips for optimal use and management
MrFrankZola wrote:Not to have discussed these specific jobs with you, at a work search review, is bad form.Does the CC mention applying for jobs messaged about via UCJ?
With or without your 'coach' knowing your ' individual skills, ability, location, capabilities and capacity and qualification' how have they reached the implicit opinion you are suitable for these vacancies?
Cc does not say anything about jobs messaged via UCj.
It just mentions applying for jobs recommended by the wc.
and the 'all that I am capable of doing' of course.
The wc knows what town I live in and what job I have done (I have a profession) but has no understanding of the skills used in my job and thinks that I can just do anything which does not require academic qualifications. I can't actually.
In my opinion, his/her attitude denigrates people who do those jobs. Personal qualities are integral to success in jobs, whether the job requires academic qualifications or not. Overlooking those important qualities is disingenuous.
Caker- Posts : 1819
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Join date : 2017-04-14
Re: UC journal tips for optimal use and management
This JSA info may help formulate restrictions
"Restrictions because of religious or other belief
118. A claimant may restrict the type of work they are prepared to do, provided
they can show they have reasonable prospects of employment, because of a sincerely held religious belief or conscientious objection.
119. They must explain why their religious or other belief affects the type of
work they can do. For example:
a vegetarian may object to working in an abattoir; or
a person who follows a particular religion may object to taking employment which requires them to work on a day which is considered sacred. "
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/179505/response/444102/attach/html/4/Avail%20and%20ASE%20Guidance.pdf.html
Conscientious objection to work involving: Religion? (Atheist), Gambling, Alcohol (often related to religion), work related to military (pascifist)
Not sure for UC, but for JSA
Additional restrictions on availability for certain groups
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/207/regulation/13/made
For UC
"17 Work search requirement
(1) In this Part a “work search requirement” is a requirement that a claimant take—
(a) all reasonable action"
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/5/enacted
Can being required to apply for a specific job that is against a claimants':
"sincerely held religious belief or conscientious objection"
ever be "reasonable"?
"Restrictions because of religious or other belief
118. A claimant may restrict the type of work they are prepared to do, provided
they can show they have reasonable prospects of employment, because of a sincerely held religious belief or conscientious objection.
119. They must explain why their religious or other belief affects the type of
work they can do. For example:
a vegetarian may object to working in an abattoir; or
a person who follows a particular religion may object to taking employment which requires them to work on a day which is considered sacred. "
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/179505/response/444102/attach/html/4/Avail%20and%20ASE%20Guidance.pdf.html
Conscientious objection to work involving: Religion? (Atheist), Gambling, Alcohol (often related to religion), work related to military (pascifist)
Not sure for UC, but for JSA
Additional restrictions on availability for certain groups
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/207/regulation/13/made
For UC
"17 Work search requirement
(1) In this Part a “work search requirement” is a requirement that a claimant take—
(a) all reasonable action"
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/5/enacted
Can being required to apply for a specific job that is against a claimants':
"sincerely held religious belief or conscientious objection"
ever be "reasonable"?
MrFrankZola- Posts : 175
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Join date : 2017-05-28
Re: UC journal tips for optimal use and management
Off topic...
If you’re told to apply for a job that’s against your beliefs
You shouldn’t have to do work that goes against your beliefs - whether religious or not. For example, if you’re a pacifist you shouldn’t have to work in an armaments factory.
Explain your beliefs to your work coach if they do ask you to do anything against your beliefs. If they refuse to make changes check if this is discrimination.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/universal-credit/what-youll-need-to-do-on-universal-credit/change-claimant-commitment/
If you’re told to apply for a job that’s against your beliefs
You shouldn’t have to do work that goes against your beliefs - whether religious or not. For example, if you’re a pacifist you shouldn’t have to work in an armaments factory.
Explain your beliefs to your work coach if they do ask you to do anything against your beliefs. If they refuse to make changes check if this is discrimination.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/universal-credit/what-youll-need-to-do-on-universal-credit/change-claimant-commitment/
Non Deficere- Posts : 724
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Re: UC journal tips for optimal use and management
Thanks Frank and ND
DATA REMOVED FOR SECURITY REASONS
DATA REMOVED FOR SECURITY REASONS
Last edited by Caker on Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
Caker- Posts : 1819
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