Does anyone recognise this tribunal case?
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Does anyone recognise this tribunal case?
I think this was posted by Mary but I don't have a reference to the actual tribunal from which it was taken. Does anyone have a tribunal reference number?
27. Unfortunatety the respondent has not provided the guidance in relation to the non registration
on universal job match or the policy which is adopted in those limited circumstances. I can
however glean one important matter from the wording adopted by the DWP in the letter; there is
no set criteria and no exhaustive criteria for allowing a claimant not to register. lf there were
exhaustive criteria then no doubt the Secretary of State would have brought these to my
attention and relred upon them, or at least relied upon the appellant not being within the
exhaustive criteria.
28. The appellant indicated she was willing to use the job search computer to identify vacancies
and thereafter apply for said vacancies direct to the company or through other means. She
indicated that she had no difficulty with any other part of the claimant commitment. Her only
difficulty was registration.
29. Has the respondent satisfied the 'necessary' test? The sole purpose of the claimant
commitment and the requirements made by the Secretary of State in the claimant commitment
are to assist a claimant to achieve employment. That, in my view, must be the global mission
statement. lf the claimant can however seek employment to a comparable level as the claimant
commitment elsewhere and one can use the system to search for employment without
registering then that naturally begs the question as to whether the requirement is necessary. Or
put another way, is the interference with the appellant's Article 8 rights necessary.
30. I am compelled to find that the interference is not necessary and accordingly the requirement for
the appellant to register and be subjected to having her communications and actions monitored
is not necessary. I would be compelled to the contrary conclusion if one cold not perform job
searches or seek employment on the computer without registering but that is not the case here.
31. The interference with the appellant's private life cannot in my view be justified as necessary for
the economic well being of the country for the following reasons; one can seek and search for
'employment without registering, the respondent has nol provided any data or quantitative
evidence to show that the likelihood or obtaining employment is increased with registration as
opposed to locating jobs and applying externally to the system nor has the respondent provided
any information as to the purpose behind the monitoring and who would perform the same.
32. lt must naturally follow therefore that the appeal is allowed. The appellant has not unreasonably
refused to comply with the claimant commitment as I flnd that the requirement for her to register
on the Universal job match system, as opposed to merely using it to locate jobs, breaches her
Article B rights and is not a necessary intrusion into her private life.
ABC- Posts : 228
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Join date : 2017-05-05
Re: Does anyone recognise this tribunal case?
Yes I do. I did not keep a copy of the decision, nor did the folks over on rightsnet:
https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/10597/
https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/10597/
Non Deficere- Posts : 724
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Reputation : 167
Join date : 2017-12-15
Re: Does anyone recognise this tribunal case?
Non Deficere wrote:Yes I do. I did not keep a copy of the decision, nor did the folks over on rightsnet:
https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/10597/
Yes I saw that thread. Apparently waybackmachine which archived the original thread from the now defunct Unemploymentmovement is down at the moment. Perhaps it'll appear there in due course. So you don't have the tribunal reference number?
ABC- Posts : 228
Points : 309
Reputation : 49
Join date : 2017-05-05
Re: Does anyone recognise this tribunal case?
Latest from "Wayback Machine"
Sorry for the delay in responding to this post. We are working on some background changes to the Wayback Machine and the Archive in general. The updates have been put on hold for the Wayback Machine until these are done. We are hoping to have the updates starting next month or so, but that is not a firm timeline. I'm sorry for the delay. We are not defunct, and the Wayback Machine is still being worked on, but these changes are important to do now. Please be patient with us while we work these out. Also,you are welcome to email us with more questions.
Paul Forrest Hickman
Office Manager
http://archive.org/post/66895/is-archive-now-defunct
Sorry for the delay in responding to this post. We are working on some background changes to the Wayback Machine and the Archive in general. The updates have been put on hold for the Wayback Machine until these are done. We are hoping to have the updates starting next month or so, but that is not a firm timeline. I'm sorry for the delay. We are not defunct, and the Wayback Machine is still being worked on, but these changes are important to do now. Please be patient with us while we work these out. Also,you are welcome to email us with more questions.
Paul Forrest Hickman
Office Manager
http://archive.org/post/66895/is-archive-now-defunct
Last edited by Rebel-1 on Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:10 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Add Link)
Rebel-1- Posts : 61
Points : 77
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Join date : 2017-04-23
Re: Does anyone recognise this tribunal case?
ABC wrote:Non Deficere wrote:Yes I do. I did not keep a copy of the decision, nor did the folks over on rightsnet:
https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/10597/
Yes I saw that thread. Apparently waybackmachine which archived the original thread from the now defunct Unemploymentmovement is down at the moment. Perhaps it'll appear there in due course. So you don't have the tribunal reference number?
I don't have it I am afraid, but if you had the judgment number the decision is not in the public domain unless the appellant shares it.
The FtT decision is not binding on DWP. However, rightsnet members have made several suggestions.
An UtT decison in regards to UJ:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/59e5b9dfed915d6aaafc2eb4/CJSA_3521_2016-00.pdf
Non Deficere- Posts : 724
Points : 1343
Reputation : 167
Join date : 2017-12-15
Re: Does anyone recognise this tribunal case?
found the reference to it
https://mrfrankzola.wordpress.com/2016/12/06/tribunal-compulsory-universal-jobmatch-registration-breaches-human-rights/
thankyou frank for keeping that reference
another reference it was zerox/noconsentme i believe
i had saved reference to the page
https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t49-uc-claim-closed-because-refused-claimant-committment-register-with-uj
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/universal_credit_register_with_u
https://mrfrankzola.wordpress.com/2016/12/06/tribunal-compulsory-universal-jobmatch-registration-breaches-human-rights/
thankyou frank for keeping that reference
another reference it was zerox/noconsentme i believe
i had saved reference to the page
https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t49-uc-claim-closed-because-refused-claimant-committment-register-with-uj
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/universal_credit_register_with_u
Re: Does anyone recognise this tribunal case?
i also think this one has relevence to the above info as well
https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t1145-universal-jobmatch-security-and-other-improvements
the case number is this as well
http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/AAC/2017/388.pdf
https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t1145-universal-jobmatch-security-and-other-improvements
the case number is this as well
http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/AAC/2017/388.pdf
Re: Does anyone recognise this tribunal case?
This appeal is about variations to a “jobseeker’s agreement” (now restyled as a “claimant commitment”) and the approach to deciding “whether it is reasonable to expect the claimant to comply with the agreement as proposed to be varied” under section 10(5)(b) of the Jobseeker’s Act 1995. It also touches on the number of steps a claimant may be required to undertake under a jobseeker’s agreement .
the claimants entitlement was closed due to no jobseeker’s agreement failed to comply with that direction by refusing to enter into that new agreement
The focus of this appeal is on the terms of section 10(5) of the Act.
The particular focus of the appeal below was on whether it was reasonable to expect the
appellant to have to comply with the proposed new jobseeker’s agreement.
in the proposed jobseeker’s agreement of 5 January 2016 to “Search Universal Jobmatch via Gov.UK to identify and apply for jobs you can do – 5 times per week minimum” required the appellant to apply for jobs via Universal Jobmatch.
the appellant would have needed to take out an account with Universal Jobmatch by registering with that site and that that step may not have been one it was reasonable to require the appellant to
undertake given his security concerns about that site.
many of us on here dont agree that we need or want to create an account on ujm
to have it inserted by an advisor onto the jobseeker agreement document as quoted below
It is worth noting in terms of context that the Universal Jobmatch requirement was sandwiched between two other requirementsin the proposed jobseeker’s agreement, though there were other requirements as well.
The first other requirement required the appellant to “Use websites including Total Jobs and Indeed and employers’ own websites to find and apply for jobs you can do – 5 times a week minimum”.
or forced usage by using directions by an advisor to use the site when its plagued with fraud.
everything else can be done except the registration and usage of ujm not everyone uses ujm to search for jobs
In directly addressing
this issue the submission said that there was no express reference in the proposed new jobseeker’s agreement which directed the appellant to register with the Universal Jobmatch website.
The Secretary of State’s decision maker had “directed [the appellant] should “search” for work on Universal Jobmatch site – but [I] can find no reference to him being directed to register on that site”.
ive found many an advisor giving jobs only on ujm to force the registration of a claimant onto ujm against a claimants wishes to use the site
the claimants entitlement was closed due to no jobseeker’s agreement failed to comply with that direction by refusing to enter into that new agreement
The focus of this appeal is on the terms of section 10(5) of the Act.
The particular focus of the appeal below was on whether it was reasonable to expect the
appellant to have to comply with the proposed new jobseeker’s agreement.
in the proposed jobseeker’s agreement of 5 January 2016 to “Search Universal Jobmatch via Gov.UK to identify and apply for jobs you can do – 5 times per week minimum” required the appellant to apply for jobs via Universal Jobmatch.
the appellant would have needed to take out an account with Universal Jobmatch by registering with that site and that that step may not have been one it was reasonable to require the appellant to
undertake given his security concerns about that site.
many of us on here dont agree that we need or want to create an account on ujm
to have it inserted by an advisor onto the jobseeker agreement document as quoted below
It is worth noting in terms of context that the Universal Jobmatch requirement was sandwiched between two other requirementsin the proposed jobseeker’s agreement, though there were other requirements as well.
The first other requirement required the appellant to “Use websites including Total Jobs and Indeed and employers’ own websites to find and apply for jobs you can do – 5 times a week minimum”.
or forced usage by using directions by an advisor to use the site when its plagued with fraud.
everything else can be done except the registration and usage of ujm not everyone uses ujm to search for jobs
In directly addressing
this issue the submission said that there was no express reference in the proposed new jobseeker’s agreement which directed the appellant to register with the Universal Jobmatch website.
The Secretary of State’s decision maker had “directed [the appellant] should “search” for work on Universal Jobmatch site – but [I] can find no reference to him being directed to register on that site”.
ive found many an advisor giving jobs only on ujm to force the registration of a claimant onto ujm against a claimants wishes to use the site
Re: Does anyone recognise this tribunal case?
as worded often in the jsa document
“Like most job websites a person can undertake a search for vacancies without actually logging in. It is only if they find a vacancy that they wish to apply for and that vacancy does not take/direct them to another specific website, that the person would have to create a [Universal Jobmatch] account and then apply via the [Universal Jobmatch] website.....[The appellant] does not need to log in to [Universal Jobmatch] in order to search.”
however
It would appear, moreover, that the Secretary of State accepted in this submission that due to the appellant’s security concerns it would have been reasonable for him not to have registered on the Universal Jobmatch site if he needed to apply for jobs via that site.
to me this is good news as at last jsa claimants cannot be forced to use ujm however anyone that attempts to refuse to do so will have there claim closed by the adviser at jcp office
“Like most job websites a person can undertake a search for vacancies without actually logging in. It is only if they find a vacancy that they wish to apply for and that vacancy does not take/direct them to another specific website, that the person would have to create a [Universal Jobmatch] account and then apply via the [Universal Jobmatch] website.....[The appellant] does not need to log in to [Universal Jobmatch] in order to search.”
however
It would appear, moreover, that the Secretary of State accepted in this submission that due to the appellant’s security concerns it would have been reasonable for him not to have registered on the Universal Jobmatch site if he needed to apply for jobs via that site.
to me this is good news as at last jsa claimants cannot be forced to use ujm however anyone that attempts to refuse to do so will have there claim closed by the adviser at jcp office
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