Claimant Commitment

by Rowratty Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:25 am

Hi

Yesterday...WSR appointment usual signing day, frogmarched to the 'secure' area by G4S and my WC gives me a blank, printed CC, well, it's not totally blank.

My WC has completed the 'My Availability for Work Section' and the 'My Actions for getting Work' section and then printed out a copy for me to sign.
There are now 14 'activities' that I must do on a daily basis.

All the Profile, Circumstances, types of work, qualifications...and all the other boxes are blank.

No discussion, "You must sign your CC right now or I will cancel your claim!"

I took the copy that my WC gave me and said that "I'll think about it".

I won't be signing it.

My next WSR is in January

by Caker Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:27 pm

How did your WC respond when you did not sign it?

by Rowratty Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:08 am

I don't know how my WC responded...I just signed as usual, took the copy of the CC, said that I'll think about it and walked out.

My WC must be aware that the CC is invalid, they must know that they can't just hand out a blank CC and demand that I sign it.

Its just more evidence that my WC is either incompetent or they are deliberately ignoring DWP guidelines to harass me.

I don't have to immediately agree to a CC, claimants have seven days, not including bank holidays, to decide if they want to sign the CC it or not.
If there is a dispute my WC must pass the CC to another WC for review.

See: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/430863/response/1046175/attach/html/4/3771.pdf.html
(Claimant Commitment not accepted)

My WC thinks that I am stupid and that I can be bullied and threatened.

If I don't get a letter sometime after Christmas informing me that my claim has been cancelled then this is just more BS from my WC, which it is.

If my claim is cancelled then, with this blank CC and all the other evidence gathered over the past two months I think I have a good case for malpractice in public office.

by Absolut Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:17 am

When a new CC is created you sign that first then sign on. Your WC is not following correct procedures, that's for sure.

What has also been missed regarding your challenge of the CC is that the correct procedure is for the claimant to be allowed to suggest an alternative CC which the WC is also supposed to print out. Both CCs are then sent to a DM who compares them to see if the WC is being unreasonable or not. Although this is in the rules in black and white I've not come across any WC following that procedure.

by ABC Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:19 pm

Absolut wrote:the correct procedure is for the claimant to be allowed to suggest an alternative CC which the WC is also supposed to print out. Both CCs are then sent to a DM who compares them to see if the WC is being unreasonable or not. Although this is in the rules in black and white I've not come across any WC following that procedure.

I think that's only for JSA claimants. Under UC a disputed CC just goes to another work coach for a second opinion because we all know how unbiased and honest work coaches are.

by Non Deficere Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:45 pm

We will not know until Tues 19/12 whether your WC has followed through with his/her unlawful threat of closure/suspension of your claim.

Based on previous posts here you are a JSA claimant.

Members will be able to advise once the full facts are available.

by Caker Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:50 pm

@ Non Deficere
Welcome to the forum. Your avatar picture is a bit big and obscures some of the text of your post when viewed on my device.

Just saying. Smile

by Absolut Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:36 am

ABC wrote:a disputed CC just goes to another work coach for a second opinion because we all know how unbiased and honest work coaches are.

by **Admin** Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:06 am

@ Non Deficere

Welcome to the forum thankyou for joining us here.

Your avatar picture was fine by my pcs, stange why it shows bigger on other machines

by **Admin** Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:10 am

Rowratty wrote:Yesterday...WSR appointment usual signing day, frogmarched to the 'secure' area by G4S and my WC gives me a blank, printed CC, well, it's not totally blank.

My WC has completed the 'My Availability for Work Section' and the 'My Actions for getting Work' section and then printed out a copy for me to sign.
There are now 14 'activities' that I must do on a daily basis.

All the Profile, Circumstances, types of work, qualifications...and all the other boxes are blank.

No discussion, "You must sign your CC right now or I will cancel your claim!"

I took the copy that my WC gave me and said that "I'll think about it".

I won't be signing it.

that refence has been tried before by jcp advisers normally its take the copy with you and refuse to sign it many people have signed it then apealed agaisnt it afterwards when they realize what they have signed

advisers dont like you keeping the original and try to grab it back from you or quote they need it back straight away

by Rowratty Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:34 am

@Non Deficere Hi and Welcome.

I am on JSA, I'm not quite sure of the CC guidelines for JSA Claimants but I am sure that the CC must be discussed and agreed before being asked to sign it. At the minimum any changes in clamant circumstances must be discussed and recorded.

I refuse to use the SCS pad for signing, issues with giving the DWP a copy of my signature, you never know where it could be cut 'n' paste to, but that's a different issue.

I checked my bank this morning and JSA has been awarded, so, like you say, I'll wait until the 19th for a letter of some sort.

I've had this new WC since November they started with the 'little' threats CV, access to UJ etc...Then a JSD, then Banned for 12 months, reduced to 3 after I kicked up a fuss, and now this.

Grrrr!

by Absolut Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:30 am

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/334057/response/824787/attach/html/4/Claimant%20Commitment%20Operational%20Instructions.pdf.html

98. This makes it clear to the claimant that if there is a disagreement about their Claimant Commitment (CC), they can ask for it to be referred to a Decision Maker.

105. Where a realistic Claimant Commitment (CC) cannot be agreed between the claimant and the Work Coach, every effort must be made to resolve any issues locally, before making a referral to the Labour Market Decision Maker.

by Absolut Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:37 am

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/343998/response/847335/attach/html/4/Accepting%20the%20Claimant%20Commitment.pdf.html

If the claimant does not accept the Claimant Commitment, the adviser inform them that they will not be entitled to Universal Credit or JSA (C) if they do not accept a Claimant Commitment. The adviser informs the claimant that there is a 7 calendar day 'cooling-off' period and that if the Claimant Commitment is not accepted within the 7 days the claim will be closed. The 7 day Claimant Commitment cooling-off period starts from the day the claimant refuses to accept their Claimant Commitment and includes weekends but not bank holidays. The length of the cooling-off period will be extended to reflect any bank holidays occurring in the 7 days following the creation of the Claimant Commitment.

It is the claimant's responsibility to make contact with the DWP adviser during this period if they want to accept or discuss their Claimant Commitment. If the claimant contacts DWP after the expiry of this period they will be advised that their claim is defective (claim not entitled/closed) and to make a new claim. The adviser creates a WSP task to check the Claimant Commitment acceptance status on the eighth day.

by Rowratty Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:33 am

@Absolut
Hi,

Thanks for the links.

This is sounding more and more like harassment.

Why, one week before the Christmas break, would my WC demand that I sign a Blank CC and threaten to close my claim?

I would like this blank CC to be sent to a Labour Market Decision Maker just to see what they have to say.

by Non Deficere Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:50 am

Rowratty wrote:@Absolut
Hi,

Thanks for the links.

This is sounding more and more like harassment.

Why, one week before the Christmas break, would my WC demand that I sign a Blank CC and threaten to close my claim?

I would like this blank CC to be sent to a Labour Market Decision Maker just to see what they have to say.

The correct procedure for reviewing an old style JSA Claimant commitment (previously named the Jobseeker's Agreeement):

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/195866/response/483315/attach/7/3f.JSAg%20Referral%20to%20LDMA.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

https://refutedarchive.wordpress.com/cjsa-5376-2014-00/

You are entitled to take advice and you have not been given a review appointment, so the next opportunity to discuss and challenge the CC is at your next WSR.

However, a complaint may be helpful in the interim.

You need to explain:

1. The correct procedure has not been followed (enclose info from the above links).

2. You feel you have been subjected to unfair as well as poor treatment and service.

3. How you want the complaint be resolved, including your own proposal.

4. Appropriate redress.

Example Templates can be found in the Jobseeker Help section.

Ask if further help is required.

by ABC Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:54 pm

Rowratty it occurrs to me that a blank CC is about the best thing you can have. It still has to be signed by you and the work coach while you're present and you keep a copy of that as proof. So do that next time you're in the Jobcentre and rest easy that you have nothing in your CC to worry about (and you have signed proof if anything just happens to get added to it later without your permission). Twisted Evil

by Caker Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:02 pm

@ABC
I am inclined to agree with you. It is not at all clear why a WC would want anyone to sign a blank CC, for just the reasons you have outlined confused

by oneman Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:54 pm

It states on the CC that you must be able to read and understand it, before signing it.
There are so many things that I do not understand in the CC that you can drag the process out for years, like I have done. I was asked to sign back in 2014 and still do not have a signed CC. This begs the question. If you must have a signed CC to get JSA then why am I still getting JSA?
It's all a load of rubbish.
If you need more unanswerable questions to ask then just say. For the moment
remember this. I put this in my letter to them.
"I would like to point out that I do not in any way refuse to sign the CC or have any dispute or disagreement as yet but I may have to ask the DM for a variation to the CC. This will obviously be dealt with using the variation to CC dispute using AR code JSA/543 and no loss of benefits until after 21 days of the DM decision. Depending on what happens at the interview this may not be required at all."

by Rowratty Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:24 pm

Well, it seems that my complaints have finally reached someone. Thursday, first appointment with JCP and I have yet another Workcoach, and rather odd Workcoach at that. Helpful, understanding, actually listened to me, very apologetic, almost let me write my own CC...What is going on? I'm still segregated, "Mustn't give the other claimants funny ideas now must we?" but I don't mind. Some new tactic that I'm unaware of?

Happy New Year to you all (belated)

Thank you for all your assistance, I'll keep you informed of any further developments.

Ratty.

by Caker Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:39 am

.......beware of the iron fist in the velvet glove Suspect

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