Making it work - the future of Universal Credit

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Making it work - the future of Universal Credit

Post by Absolut on Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:30 am

http://blogs.bath.ac.uk/iprblog/2017/01/12/making-it-work-the-future-of-universal-credit/

Merging in-work and out-of-work benefits into a seamless, unified system may seem like an elegant policy but the problem is that the trade-off needed to achieve it involves extending the reach of Universal Credit further and deeper into the working population than any other social security system or earnings top-up scheme has ever ventured – anywhere in the world. An estimated three million low-income working households – the very hard working and ‘just about managing’ families that Theresa May’s government is meant to be helping, and who would formerly have remained outside the system of behavioural conditionality – will be drawn into its unyielding embrace.

No one yet knows how the requirement to attend mandatory jobcentre meetings, work longer hours or get a second job will be greeted by people who are already working

my prediction for 2017 is that without a radical rethink, current proposals for in-work conditionality may well prove to be Universal Credit’s undoing.
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Re: Making it work - the future of Universal Credit

Post by El-dudeareno on Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:13 pm

And yet Mr Gauke is pressing along!  pale "David Gauke signals he will press on with universal credit"

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/aug/25/david-gauke-signals-he-will-press-on-with-universal-credit
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Re: Making it work - the future of Universal Credit

Post by Caker on Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:37 pm

Does anyone else think that continuing with UC is an example of sunk cost fallacy?

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/173/Sunk_Cost_Fallacy

geek
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Re: Making it work - the future of Universal Credit

Post by Absolut on Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:20 am

to enter the world of work while ensuring fairness for the taxpayer



Fairness to the tax payer my arse. Mr Gauke, an ex-treasury minister, knows perfectly well that we are a nation of debt slaves. There's no "fairness" in any part of our "tax" (theft) system.

http://www.alastairmcintosh.com/articles/1998_usury.htm

Usury is what marks the distinction between money being simply a socially contracted abstract mechanism to lubricate between supply and demand, and money as an end in itself.  As an end in itself, as a social commodity legitimised through usury to tax other economic activity, the honest process of living by the sweat of one’s brow is short-circuited.  The true dignity and full reward of ordinary labour is compromised.  Money thus becomes self-perpetuating power in itself rather than just a mediating agent of power.  

Caker wrote:Does anyone else think that continuing with UC is an example of sunk cost fallacy?

Well, it proves that it's not about the money it has cost so far to implement. It would have been cheaper to pay people to stay at home. Throwing "good" money after "bad" appears illogical to us but the goal of UC is to wipe out the difference between those in-work and those out of work as alluded to in the article I posted:

the removal of the administrative distinction between being in and out of work

It doesn't take a genius to know that someone working 30 hours a week (or more) and who is claiming tax credit isn't going to appreciate being made to attend a job centre "interview". 3 million people who have not had to go anywhere near a job centre are going to find out just how horrible it can be being judged as "unworthy" by someone who only works 5 more hours per week than they do.

For couples, the hours of work, earnings and compliance of one partner will crucially affect the conditionality requirements imposed on the other.

In a court of law you are not held responsible for what someone else does or doesn't do, but in the world of the DWP Gestapo all bets are off.

Where there is no rule of law (as found in our common law courts) then there is no fairness to anyone.
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Re: Making it work - the future of Universal Credit

Post by Brutus on Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:32 am


The renter elites that control, for the moment, the Country is rooted in the ownership of land.
They artificially keep its value exorbitantly (and eventually disastrously) high.
To achieve this feat, on one side they have restricted the availability of housing, creating a "bottom" of guaranteed demand, ie in their neoliberal view, the price might not go below a minimum level.
Then they attract, on the bases of this "guaranteed" investment, foreign capital, adding for baits, the picture of a stable, modern, Western stable Country.
A Country that, on paper, must be fitting their understanding (and above all the image that foreign investor must see) of what an healthy economy should be, low unemployment, low taxes and and a quasi-police state to reassure again political turmoil.
Universal Credit fit the bill of looking like a benefit system fit for a prosperous country but it is in reality a mechanism to falsely keep down the important figures of unemployment (they brag that is it the lowest in Europe).
As an added bonus, by killing many disables and shortening the lifespan of everybody passing through it, it practically pays for itself.
It also allows to keep check on the most historically  troublesome part of society without spending a fortune in a large police and others repressive forces.
Our beloved neoliberal elites, they love it.
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Re: Making it work - the future of Universal Credit

Post by Absolut on Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:49 am

Brutus wrote:As an added bonus, by killing many disables and shortening the lifespan of everybody passing through it, it practically pays for itself.

Very true.
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Re: Making it work - the future of Universal Credit

Post by Caker on Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:57 am

Brutus wrote: ...........Universal Credit fit the bill of looking like a benefit system fit for a prosperous country but it is in reality a mechanism to falsely keep down the important figures of unemployment (they brag that is it the lowest in Europe)........

Question
I am not really sure how UC keeps down the unemployment figures though. The UC ideology is that it makes work pay i.e. it is supposed to make it more financially worthwhile to take a job than stay on benefits; that is the theory, but the practice just does not fit the theory very well.

Without more jobs for people to take, there is no 'jobs escalator' effect as UC relies upon. Employers will not provide 'more' / 'better paid' work just because UC requires this. They will provide the work that meets the needs of their business, the same as they did before UC.

If anything, UC blurs the statistics, as it blurs the distinction between someone in a low paid job and someone not in a job. Surely that includes more people not fewer.
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Re: Making it work - the future of Universal Credit

Post by Caker on Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:04 am

Absolut wrote:
Brutus wrote:As an added bonus, by killing many disables and shortening the lifespan of everybody passing through it, it practically pays for itself.

Very true.



Yes, this is very true and very sinister as not every person coming into contact with DWP was depressed before but some are afterwards. I am certain DWP would distance itself by arguing that depression is the effect of unemployment (part of the 'work is beneficial to health' rhetoric), they would never admit that DWP intervention is responsible for depression, but I am convinced that it is.
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Re: Making it work - the future of Universal Credit

Post by Brutus on Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:59 am



This article from the Telegraph
UK unemployment at lowest level since 1975 - but prices rise faster than pay is typical of what I was referring to.
The figures are so skewed that even the webzine  "Business Insider" concedes that:

"Why does Britain have no wage inflation, if the labour market is so tight?

The answer is that unemployment is not really that low. In reality, about 21.5% of British workers are either officially unemployed, inactive, or employed part time even though they really want full-time work. (The ONS has a chapter on that here.) " (From: "Unemployment in the UK is now so low it's in danger of exposing the lie used to create the numbers")


UC "philosophy" is based on such  surrealistic scenario that any sane person may wander what it can possibly be used for, apart from discouraging claimant from exercising their right.
Conceived by people like "Lord Freud" that though perfectly reasonable to argue that the increase in food banks usage  can be explained away by specious sophisms like: "which came first, the supply or the demand … Food from a food bank – the supply – is a free good, and by definition there is an almost infinite demand for a free good.".
In other words, people use them more because they are free...

The entire system is rotten to the core, all aspects of economic policy are geared to provide a false, sometimes obviously so,  neoliberal style reassurance, that their ideology is right no matter the what reality shows.

The old dictum "If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself." seems to be applied here with vigour.
UC is part of this deception.

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Re: Making it work - the future of Universal Credit

Post by Absolut on Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:56 am

The employment estimates include all people in work including those working part-time.

If someone is working part time and claims just £1 in JSA they are classed by the DWP as "unemployed".

My hubby is both "employed" (according to contract law) and "unemployed" (according to the DWP). When he's not given any work under his zero hours contract he goes from employed to unemployed and then back again.

When I asked why the DWP classes my hubby as unemployed when he's employed their reply was "if he claims any benefits at all then he's unemployed for our purposes".

So, when people who are in work under UC make a claim will work roaches start to label anyone who doesn't work full time as "unemployed" as well?  



Last edited by Absolut on Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:58 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : clarification)
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Re: Making it work - the future of Universal Credit

Post by oneman on Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:15 am

Perhaps if Mr Gauke Take his job seriously then we all need to ask the Question, to him. How much has George Iain Duncan Smith (IDS) The liar,  Cost us so far for Universal credit???

Who will Join me and how shall we go about it. I think a vote on transparency would be a start on here. Just a simple guess at the amount he has cost. like a poll?

What do you think.

Everyone's guess on the price so far.  (you will be flabbergasted.)

PS. Here is a clue from a few years ago.
"Whilst the DWP had estimated the administration costs for the rollout of Universal Credit to be £2.2 billion, by August 2014!!! this estimate was revised to £12.8 billion"

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Re: Making it work - the future of Universal Credit

Post by oneman on Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:33 am

Anyone see DARLINGTON OR BISHOP AUCKLAND/ CROOK in there ( bar Durham Peterlee JCP
Seaham JCP)? Derby, Normanton Road gets a mention and that is just one street!!
"The government plans to start transferring people who are still on existing benefits or tax credits onto Universal Credit from July 2019. They plan to complete this process by March 2022!!!! LOL "

Universal Credit (UC) roll-out 2018

Full Digital Service Areas

Universal Credit is being rolled out in full digital service areas. Full digital service areas are gradually replacing live service areas. Claimants on Universal Credit in a live service area will be transferred onto the full digital service when their area goes digital.

Anyone in a full digital service area who is working age can start a claim for Universal Credit, as long as they don't have three or more children. Anyone with three or more children who is already on Universal Credit will stay on Universal Credit, rather than be transferred to other benefits or tax credits. Families with three or more children will be able to start Universal Credit claims from November 2018 onwards.

The government expects the national roll-out of the full digital service to be completed by September 2018. The government plans to start transferring people who are still on existing benefits or tax credits onto Universal Credit from July 2019. They plan to complete this process by March 2022.

This is a list of the jobcentre areas which are becoming full digital service areas for Universal Credit each month.

February 2018

Accrington, Annan, Ayr, Basingstoke, Bathgate, Blackburn, Bodmin, Boston, Bracknell, Bridgend, Bridgnorth, Broxburn, Cardiff Alex House, Cardiff Charles Street, Chatham, City of Westminster Marylebone, Clapham Common, Coalville, Colwyn Bay, Darwen, Diss, Dumfries, Folkestone, Girvan, Gloucester, Gravesend, Huyton, Jarrow, Killingworth, Kirkby, Livingston, Llandudno, Maesteg, Maidenhead, Market Drayton, Middleton, Newark, Newquay, North Shields, Oswestry, Porthcawl, Pyle, Redbridge, Rhyl, Rochdale Heywood, Rochdale, Rushden, Scarborough, Selby, Shrewsbury, Slough, South Shields, St Austell, Stowmarket, Stranraer, Streatham, Truro, Wallsend, Westminster, Whitby, Whitchurch, Whitley Bay

March 2018

Abergavenny, Alfreton, Amlwch, Ammanford, Ashford, Banff, Barnsbury, Bedminster, Belper, Bishopsworth, Bradford Eastbrook Court, Bradford Westfield House, Bristol Central, Caldicott, Carmarthen, Chepstow, Chester le Street, Congleton, Crawley, Darlington, Dereham, Durham, Eyemouth, Falkirk, Finsbury Park, Fraserburgh, Galashiels, Grangemouth, Hanley, Hawick, Haywards Heath, Heanor, Helston, Hereford, Highgate, Holyhead, Hornchurch, Horsham, Keighley, Kingston, Leicester Charles St, Leicester New Walk, Leicester Wellington St, Leominster, Leyland, Lincoln, Llanelli, Llangefni, Longton, Macclesfield, Merthyr, Tydfil, Newton Aycliffe, Penryn, Penzance, Peterhead, Preston, Redruth, Romford, Ross on Wye, Shipley, Skegness, Spennymoor, Stockport, Thetford, Twickenham, Wandsworth, Wilmslow

April 2018

Abertillery, Airdrie, Andover, Ashton in Makerfield, Atherton, Bangor, Barnstaple, Barrow, Bellshill, Beverley, Bideford, Billingham, Blairgowrie, Bognor, Bridlington, Brownhills, Buckie, Caernarfon, Canterbury, Chichester, Chorley, Clay Cross, Colchester, Coventry Cofa Court, Coventry Tile Hill, Cumbernauld, Derby Forester House, Derby Normanton Road, Dinnington, Dolgellau, Ebbw Vale, Elgin, Forest Hill, Forres, Goole, Harrow, Harwich, Herne Bay, Hessle, Honiton, Ipswich “My go Hub”, Ipswich, Leigh, Lewisham, Littlehampton, Loughborough, Machynlleth, Maltby, Motherwell, Newton-le-Willows, Perth, Porthmadog, Pwllheli, Rotherham, Spalding, St Helens, Staveley, Stockton, Thornaby, Tiverton, Tredegar, Walsall Bridle Court, Whitstable, Wigan, Willenhall, Winchester, Worthing

May 2018

Aberystwyth, Atherstone, Bargoed, Blackwood, Brixham, Bromley, Bromsgrove, Bury, Buxton, Caerphilly, Campbeltown, Canning Town, Canvey, Cardigan, Carlisle, Cheetham Hill, Clacton, Dartford, Dunoon, East Ham, Easton, Ely, Gainsborough, Glossop, Haverfordwest, Helensburgh, High Wycombe, Horfield, Houghton le Spring, Hythe, Johnstone, Kirkwall, Lerwick, Louth, Malvern, Mansfield, Matlock, Middlesbrough East, Middlesbrough, Milford Haven, Newport (IOW), Newton Abbot, Oban, Paisley, Pembroke Dock, Penrith, Plaistow, Prestwich, Rayleigh, Renfrew, Rothesay, Shirehampton, Southwick, Stornoway, Stratford, Sunderland, Torquay, Totnes, Washington, Wisbech, Wythenshawe

June 2018

Aberdeen, Alexandria, Aylesbury, Barrhead, Barry, Belle Vale, Brecon, Bulwell, Cambridge, Chesham, Clydebank, Cosham, Cromer, Dalston, Dumbarton, Eccles, Edinburgh City, Eltham, Exeter, Felixstowe, Garston, Guisley, Hackney, Hertford, High Riggs, Hoxton, Huntingdon, Irlam, Kendal, Kettering, Leamington Spa, Leeds Eastgate, Leeds Park Place, Leeds Southern House, Leiston, Leith, Letchworth, Lewes, Llandrindod Wells, Lymington, Machynlleth, Morley, Newhaven, Newtown, Norwich, Nottingham Central, Nottingham Loxley House, Penarth, Portsmouth, Pudsey, Salford, Seacroft, Stevenage, Wester Hailes, Worcester, Worsley, Ystradgynlais

July 2018

Aberdare, Aldershot, Alton, Arnold, Ashington, Beeston, Berwick, Bexleyheath, Bolton Blackhorse St, Bolton Great Moor St, Bordon, Chapeltown, Cramlington, Dunstable, Edge Hill, Epsom, Evesham, Farnborough, Farnworth, Guildford, Hayes, Kidderminster, Kings Lynn, Kingswood, Llantrisant, Luton, Madeley, Morpeth, Mountain Ash, Northampton, Oldbury, Pontypridd, Porth, Redhill, Ryde, Sheffield Bailey, Sheffield Cavendish Court, Sleaford, Smethwick, Telford, Tipton, Tonypandy, Tottenham, Toxteth, Treorchy, Uxbridge, Wavertree, Wellington, West Bromwich, Williamson Square, Woking, Wood Green, Yate

August 2018

Ashton-under-Lyne, Biggleswade, Bolsover, Burton, Camberley, Cannock, Castleford, Clitheroe, Colne, Eston, Fareham, Gosport, Guisborough, Harlesden, Havant, Hemsworth, Hyde, Leighton Buzzard, Loftus, Maidstone, Nelson, Petersfield, Pontefract, Rawtenstall, Redcar, Shirebrook, Stafford, Staines, Stalybridge, Sutton-in-Ashfield, Swadlincote, Tonbridge, Wakefield, Weybridge, Willesden

September 2018

Aintree, Alnwick, Anniesland, Bedlington, Blackpool North, Blackpool South, Blyth, Borehamwood, Bridgeton, Castlemilk, Chelmsford, Drumchapel, Easterhouse, Everton, Fakenham, Fleetwood, Govan, Hemel Hempstead, Hexham, Hull Britannia House, Hull Market Place, Kentish Town, Kidsgrove, Kilburn, Langside, Laurieston, Loughton, Maryhill, Mildenhall, Milton Keynes, Newcastle Under Lyme, Newlands, Newmarket, Norris Green, North Walsham, Parkhead, Partick, Sheffield Eastern Ave, Sheffield Hillsborough, Sheffield Woodhouse, Shettleston, Springburn, St Annes, Tunbridge Wells, Wembley, West Derby

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/632252/universal-credit-transition-rollout-schedule.pdf
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiN7LLku6PWAhVFthoKHS7cDSwQFghTMAc&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mirror.co.uk%2Fmoney%2Fwhat-is-universal-credit-5170581&usg=AFQjCNFIJZT1GQgAV7nF58QPRgj2Hlju4Q


PS. JUST FOUND Durham County Council
Bishop Auckland JCP
Consett JCP
Crook JCP
Chester le Street JCP
Durham JCP
Newton Aycliffe JCP
Spennymoor JCP
Stanley JCP.(NO DATES FOR ANY)

DARLINGTON anybody??????

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Re: Making it work - the future of Universal Credit

Post by Absolut on Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:37 am

oneman wrote:Anyone see DARLINGTON OR BISHOP AUCKLAND/ CROOK in there ( bar Durham Peterlee JCP
Seaham JCP)?

March 2018

Darlington

Same month as UC fully rolls out in my town too.
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Re: Making it work - the future of Universal Credit

Post by Absolut on Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:41 am

oneman wrote:How much has George Iain Duncan Smith (IDS) The liar,  Cost us so far for Universal credit???

It was Lord Freud who actually came up with the scheme. IDS is a puppet.

Everyone's guess on the price so far.  (you will be flabbergasted.)

Well, it's estimated to eventually cost £15.8 billion.

That means it would have been cheaper to simply pay people to stay at home and not bother looking for a job, but seeing as money is created out of nothing the £15.8 billion figure is nonsense anyway.
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