Labour considering plans to scrap Universal Credit in major shift at conference

Labour considering plans to scrap Universal Credit in major shift at conference
Senior figures are discussing the move after a year-long Labour review said the UC brand is "toxic" and needs "transformative change"
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-considering-plans-scrap-universal-20072092

echidna wrote:Labour considering plans to scrap Universal Credit in major shift at conference
Senior figures are discussing the move after a year-long Labour review said the UC brand is "toxic" and needs "transformative change"
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-considering-plans-scrap-universal-20072092

But no plans to scrap all benefit sanctions without exceptions?

The quotes from below from Labour do not look like much of a promise to scrap UC let alone benefit sanctions.

"Labour found the UC brand is "toxic" and needs "transformative change"...

Universal Credit is now so synonymous with cuts and hardship that the brand itself has become 'toxic'."...

Labour would try to fix the system by axing the current "punitive sanctions regime", though not necessarily all benefit sanctions...

"Universal Credit cannot continue in its current form"..
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-considering-plans-scrap-universal-20072092

Ever the eternal pessimist Frank, rubbishing the proposals before they’re published.

A glorious culmination to 9 years of austerity and struggle, we're almost there, just one more heave.

Just think of all the spare time you’ll have when everyone is happy in the New Jerusalem.

Published info from the Lib Dems

"And we’ll end inhumane benefit sanctions that make it harder to get back into work"

"replace the current ineffective sanction system"

"incentives, rather than ineffective sanctions"

Lib Dem conference: Party would keep universal credit… but scrap sanctions
https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/lib-dem-conference-party-would-keep-universal-credit-but-scrap-sanctions/

Lib Dems, a pack of mongrels

Instrumental in the past 9 years of austerity and now their ranks are swelling with Tories abandoning a sinking ship.

Don't expect much relief from them.

Committed Claimant wrote:Ever the eternal pessimist Frank, rubbishing the proposals before they’re published.

A glorious culmination to 9 years of austerity and struggle, we're almost there, just one more heave.

Just think of all the spare time you’ll have when everyone is happy in the New Jerusalem.

Question: How many *new* Universal Credit (UC) policies got announced at the Labour Party #Lab2019 conference?
(Conference held Saturday 21 September to Wednesday 25 September)

Answer: *None*

Labour Party leadership statements on UC at #Lab19

   McDonnell: "We’ll end the barbaric roll-out of Universal Credit"- 23/9/19
   Corbyn: "They’ll blame it on the mum who’s struggling on Universal Credit" - 24/9/19
   Greenwood: None

Related: Cordova: "Labour will end the rollout of Universal Credit”  - 2/9/19

Has @UKLabour missed a golden opportunity by failing to fully back calls at #Lab19 this week to #StopUniversalCredit?
https://twitter.com/EwanGurr/status/1176747494203695104

Have to see if anything happens @MrFrankZola, as we all know with most politics it is all hot air most of the time.  

Beside, have the Labour party got a new benefits system, or will they go back to the old JSA/ESA/PIP etc. As a new system could be an even bigger shambles than the Univ-Credit has been!  


https://intensiveactivity.wordpress.com/2019/09/25/universal-credit-not-fit-for-purpose-new-unite-community-report/

Labour promises to overhaul 'cruel' universal credit system
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/27/labour-promises-to-overhaul-cruel-universal-credit-system

Labour says it will scrap barbaric universal credit – but the trauma it has inflicted will not be so easy to erase
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/labour-universal-credit-scrap-benefits-jeremy-corbyn-a9124626.html

I actually think that the old system worked quite well apart from the punitive sanction regime.

For a start, people got paid for their time out of work. It was really that simple. You were either in work and not eligible for JSA or you were out of work and eligible for it. Any pay (while claiming) was used to offset benefit entitlement by the same amount; that is where UC works better than the old system, as you get to keep more under the UC taper rate system.

Additionally, the 6 month rule penalises people who might be offered short term work at a high pay rate. The £2500 de minimis largely eliminates that concern for most people. Lets hope it never becomes altered to the £300 de - minimis as was planned but put on hold.

Where UC does not work so well is the 'in work conditionality'; having to attend the JC, when you have a job, is ridiculous. That is where tax credits worked well; no conditionality.

The assessment periods make the system more complex than it needs to be.

In summary, I think the old system worked well but it could have been better if the taper rate had applied instead of the £5 per week disregard.

the old system did work better for the jobcenter system

however many people was interested in getting 21hrs worth of work and still claiming both housing and jobseekers reference

in certain cases it was better just to do this way

but too many have been sat on this system and not looking for a second job to get to 39/40hrs a week job its those people its aiming for is uc however it penalises many more as well

I do think the new system robs people more than the old system did

bad enough you had to sign off when you got a job but when your finished you couldnt claim until after your last pay check otherwise this was taken into account

You are 100% right Admin'.

I believe that that UC was set up with the policy intention of saving money for the DWP by reducing eligibility. So in effect, it is a system which robs the poorest members of society. That is exactly why I think the old system was better. If your job ended you were eligible to claim, regardless of whether or not you had earnings still to come. That was much fairer and made work pay.

Changing the culture at the DWP may be harder than Labour expects
https://labourlist.org/2019/10/changing-the-culture-at-the-dwp-may-be-harder-than-labour-expects/

All aboard the gravy train. Serve up all the rubbish they can to the gullible peasants.

Here's one peasant who's not buying any of their 'ideas.' once election day has been and gone the same or new lot will just resume. SNAFU. Imo.

Admin wrote:the old system did work better for the jobcenter system

however many people was interested in getting 21hrs worth of work and still claiming both housing and jobseekers reference

in certain cases it was better just to do this way

but too many have been sat on this system and not looking for a second job to get to 39/40hrs a week job its those people its aiming for is uc however it penalises many more as well

I do think the new system robs people more than the old system did

bad enough you had to sign off when you got a job but when your finished you couldnt claim until after your last pay check otherwise this was taken into account

Under the old system, I used to reclaim as soon as a job ended, even if I was still waiting for final pay, I just declared that I was not owed anything further.

Under UC, even if you delay your claim until after your final wage is received, it will still be taken into account if the final wage payment occurs within the same assessment period as the claim is made (keeping to the same assessment period dates as before the work started). It is probably just as well to delay claiming until the new assessment period, to delay having to attend the JC.

Obviously it is better if the final wage payment occurs just before the end an assessment period, but that is down to luck instead of something you can influence.

Universal Credit
The Tories’ flagship social security programme, Universal Credit (UC), has been a catastrophe. It has pushed thousands of people into poverty, caused families to lose their homes and forced parents to visit food banks in order to feed their children.

Labour will scrap UC. We will immediately stop moving people onto it and design an alternative system that treats people with dignity and respect. Our ambition in designing this system will be to end poverty by guaranteeing a minimum standard of living.

We will start developing this system immediately. But we have learned the lessons from Tory failure: major policy change can’t be delivered overnight, especially when people’s lives depend on it. So we will also implement an emergency package of reforms to mitigate some of the worst features of UC while we develop our replacement system.

We will end the five-week wait by introducing an interim payment based on half an estimated monthly entitlement. We will immediately suspend the Tories’ vicious sanction regime and ensure that employment support is positive not punitive.

We will stop 300,000 children from being in poverty by scrapping the benefit cap and the two child limit, so ending the immoral and outrageous ‘rape clause’. We will pay childcare costs up front so that parents aren’t forced to turn down work or get into debt to pay for childcare.

Labour will protect women in abusive relationships by splitting payments and paying the child element to the primary carer. We will make it easier for people to manage their living costs by introducing fortnightly payments and paying the housing element directly to landlords.

The Conservative’s ‘digital only’ approach is excluding vulnerable people. Labour will end the digital barrier and offer telephone, face-to face and outreach support. We will recruit 5,000 additional advisors to deliver this.

Tory cuts are pushing people into rent arrears and leaving them at risk of homelessness. We will stop housing costs running away from benefits by scrapping the bedroom tax and increasing the Local Housing Allowance.

The above extract is from the Labour Manifesto. It has been reinforced by numerous speeches, debates and interviews in the last couple of weeks. It is clear and leaves no room for doubt although it looks like some people don't get it.

You have one week left to decide whether or not to back this Manifesto, to support the realisation of the dream some of us have been campaigning, fighting and praying for for years. I would have thought that members of this Forum would welcome it with open arms and it pains me to read that some of you are so dismissive of it, ranging to total rejection.

After next Thursday the last chance we have to improve our lot will be gone forever if the Tories win. Forever for many will most likely be shorter than we expect. Rest assured that this Forum and others like it may as well pack in for all the good they will be doing.

All I asked for was a category to be created to discuss pensioner issues and was politely put in my place. One would thing I was asking for revolution. Well, you see across the Channel that the French are not prepared to take any shit when their pensions are threatened. Their workers strike to support them. When are the English going to unite and make a stand against anything?

Committed Claimant wrote:Universal Credit
The Tories’ flagship social security programme, Universal Credit (UC), has been a catastrophe. It has pushed thousands of people into poverty, caused families to lose their homes and forced parents to visit food banks in order to feed their children.

Labour will scrap UC. We will immediately stop moving people onto it and design an alternative system that treats people with dignity and respect. Our ambition in designing this system will be to end poverty by guaranteeing a minimum standard of living.

We will start developing this system immediately. But we have learned the lessons from Tory failure: major policy change can’t be delivered overnight, especially when people’s lives depend on it. So we will also implement an emergency package of reforms to mitigate some of the worst features of UC while we develop our replacement system.

We will end the five-week wait by introducing an interim payment based on half an estimated monthly entitlement. We will immediately suspend the Tories’ vicious sanction regime and ensure that employment support is positive not punitive.

We will stop 300,000 children from being in poverty by scrapping the benefit cap and the two child limit, so ending the immoral and outrageous ‘rape clause’. We will pay childcare costs up front so that parents aren’t forced to turn down work or get into debt to pay for childcare.

Labour will protect women in abusive relationships by splitting payments and paying the child element to the primary carer. We will make it easier for people to manage their living costs by introducing fortnightly payments and paying the housing element directly to landlords.

The Conservative’s ‘digital only’ approach is excluding vulnerable people. Labour will end the digital barrier and offer telephone, face-to face and outreach support. We will recruit 5,000 additional advisors to deliver this.

Tory cuts are pushing people into rent arrears and leaving them at risk of homelessness. We will stop housing costs running away from benefits by scrapping the bedroom tax and increasing the Local Housing Allowance.

The above extract is from the Labour Manifesto. It has been reinforced by numerous speeches, debates and interviews in the last couple of weeks. It is clear and leaves no room for doubt although it looks like some people don't get it.

You have one week left to decide whether or not to back this Manifesto, to support the realisation of the dream some of us have been campaigning, fighting and praying for for years. I would have thought that members of this Forum would welcome it with open arms and it pains me to read that some of you are so dismissive of it, ranging to total rejection.

After next Thursday the last chance we have to improve our lot will be gone forever if the Tories win. Forever for many will most likely be shorter than we expect. Rest assured that this Forum and others like it may as well pack in for all the good they will be doing.

All I asked for was a category to be created to discuss pensioner issues and was politely put in my place. One would thing I was asking for revolution.  Well, you see across the Channel that the French are not prepared to take any shit when their pensions are threatened. Their workers strike to support them. When are the English going to unite and make a stand against anything?

I have absolutely no objection to any new category to be created for pension related issues. It would be a very useful category to have actually.

jobberpw wrote:All aboard the gravy train. Serve up all the rubbish they can to the gullible peasants.

Here's one peasant who's not buying any of their 'ideas.' once election day has been and gone the same or new lot will just resume. SNAFU. Imo.

I think that old chestnut - "There's no point [voting], they're all the same, can't trust any of 'em..." - is a bigger con than any manifesto. The news channels love to show members of the public trotting it out.

Even if we were skeptical that a new government would or could change our lives for the better, would we rather be certain of continued deprivation and misery under the Tories? I wouldn't.

As far as I can see, that's the only certainty in this matter.

I think the current Labour leadership is on the side of the claimant. Its predecessors weren't, but I doubt a 'moderate' Labour government would have launched such a vicious assault on the common man as Universal Credit.

That brings me on to the disturbing prevalence on this and other forums of anti-Labour falsehoods, for example that UC was a Labour proposal (it was proposed by IDS' think tank in 2009) and that Labour introduced sanctions to the benefits system (they didn't, although Corbyn is the first to oppose them).

I'm not having a go at anyone but I feel very strongly that it is in our interests to vote today.

Well said Gallazz

Ignorance, apathy and defeatism is no answer.

I would suggest that the ‘gullible peasants’ are the ‘have-nots’ who have been persuaded that there is no alternative and that any suggestion that there could be is a deception. What is even more contemptable is that they should use any opportunity to spread their defeatism with a false sincerity and apparent relish.

The ‘haves’ can see the potential of social change for the ‘have-nots’ and what this would mean for them. Having concluded that we actually are ‘gullible peasants’ they have spent a lot of money, time and effort in trying to ensure that any expectations we aspire to is nipped in the bud.

By exercising our right to vote for change and hope we will show that we are not the ‘gullible peasants’ they take us for.

Our vote today will be one of many that will mean life or death for a lot of people. Tomorrow will be too late. By not using it to good effect we may as well be the ones wielding the knife.