Re: Warm Handover (Restart Scheme)

by Topaz Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:37 pm

Did anyone have 'participation in restart scheme' written in their claimant commitment after 3 way call?

by mandy tori Wed Jul 13, 2022 6:44 pm

Topaz wrote:Absolut, how can someone be on restart without a start date. Did you have a cold handover?

I don't think absolut is on restart yet having not done the 3 way call

it has so many discrepancies on JSA it appears the work coach is "winging" it.

i am on the "scheme" and i seem to have far more knowledge of it than the jcp and the provider's staff thus far :-D

by Absolut Thu Jul 14, 2022 11:17 am

Absolut, how can someone be on restart without a start date.

They can be on UC. A UC claim includes participation in mandatory employment schemes as a requirement to get that benefit. A JSA claim does not include participation in mandatory employment schemes as a requirement to get that benefit. JSA claimants can only be mandated to participate in an employment scheme via the SAPOE Regulations 2013. To be mandated onto Restart the DWP must issue a Regulation 5 notice with a start date on it, then the provider can arrange the first meeting.

Did you have a cold handover?

No. They booked a warm handover call and then couldn't go ahead with it. I gave them a copy of the SAPOE Regulations. That was at the beginning of June. I asked for a Regulation 5 notice. I'm still waiting. I don't see the problem they are having complying with their own rules.

by Pintel Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:30 pm

The more I hear about the Lukewarm Handover, the more of a Farce it seems to be

It's getting like a Pink Panther movie script

....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ttfSOo80QmI

by Archangel Wed Oct 19, 2022 1:57 pm

Absolut wrote:
Pintel wrote:The punter was using a JCP landline

Good. That is as it should be, except if you are a JSA claimant and the provider and/or the DWP has not given you a SAPOE Regulation 5 notice first.

Have you got a link for the SAPOE Regulation 5 notice as it relates to Restart? If it relates to only the old Work Programme, then it might not be recognised as current "law" by roaches.

I just found this FOI request to the DWP by someone asking them about (among other things) the Regulation 5 notice regarding JSA Restart:

“Please direct me to the legislation that states neither the DWP nor the provider is required to issue a Regulation 5 notice with a start date on it before mandating JSA claimants into participating in a 3 way call with a SAPOE provider, to take place in a job centre during a work search review, and if they do not, that they will be sanctioned.”

Here is the DWP’s response, which avoids answering this question:

"We confirm that we hold the information you have requested. You asked for information regarding the warm handover call for the Restart Scheme. It might be helpful to explain the referral process to the Restart Scheme. Prior to the referral, and during a routine Work Search Review Intervention, Jobcentre Plus work coaches will:

 discuss the Restart Scheme with the claimant and explain how it can help them with their individual work-related barriers and move them closer to finding work
 check that the claimant is eligible and suitable
 explain that a sanction may apply, and their payments may be affected if they do not participate in the mandatory parts of the Restart Scheme
 explain that the next step will be a handover call with the provider where they will be given the opportunity to ask further questions about the Restart Scheme and how the provider will help them and advise this call is mandatory.

The work coach will then book the ‘Restart Scheme referral and handover’ appointment. This is a 20-minute mandatory appointment where the warm handover call takes place between the work coach, claimant, and provider.

This appointment will be booked instead of the claimant’s next regular work search review.

The work coach will then issue the claimant with the following letters:

 JSA594 Invite to Work Search Review - Restart Scheme, and
 JSA596 Restart Scheme – 3-way call

During the first five minutes of the referral appointment and warm handover call, before inviting the provider onto the call, the work coach must:

complete the eligibility and suitability checks
ensure the claimant has not had any recent change of circumstances that would mean the scheme is no longer appropriate, and
undertake any Business as Usual Work search Reviews.

All elements of the 20-minute intervention are mandatory so if the claimant does not attend then Decision Making and Appeals (DMA) action should be considered.

If the provider or work coach are unable to join the call, it must be cancelled, and a new 20-minute flexible appointment and warm handover call should be booked.

If the claimant fails to attend the appointment or take part in the warm handover call without good reason, DMA action should be considered.

The purpose of the warm handover call is not pre-selection for the scheme. During the call the following actions should be taken:

 the work coach should explain the role of the provider and the purpose and benefits of the Restart Scheme
 the provider then discusses what they offer and how they can support the claimant to develop their skills and move closer to work
 claimants can ask questions about the Restart Scheme
 any complex needs or vulnerabilities that the claimant may have must be discussed so the provider knows how best to support the claimant, so they can consider any required adjustments
 providers will share their contact details with the claimant."

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/879341/response/2107792/attach/3/Dawson%20T%20Response%20FOI2022%2061700.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

by The Catwoman Thu Dec 01, 2022 6:14 pm

Just went for my warm handover, WC was delighted they were getting to hand me to the sharks, I told her I'm not giving any personal information, she tells me they will ask for national insurance number and a few other things.
I said I've read the restart guidance and they are not supposed to ask me that, she just brushed it off and said they only asking for information we already have....

Anyway, I 'forgot' my phone at home, why make it easy for them.. the work coach phoned restart and they kept on hanging up on her

, the fifth time she phoned she was put on hold number 10 in line..... After half an hour she got to number 5 in line and the phone line went dead...
This WC tried to put the blame on me, said this has never happened before and she usually phones claiments mobiles. I really didn't care what she was saying.

She now can't do warm handover until December 30th as she's going on holiday, as if restart will be in the office then....
She even suggested I borrow someone's phone for the call.

🧐. Why should I it's not my fault you don't know what your doing....

1 hour I had to sit there for.

by Ignatius Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:07 pm

The Catwoman wrote:Just went for my warm handover, WC was delighted they were getting to hand me to the sharks, I told her I'm not giving any personal information, she tells me they will ask for national insurance number and a few other things.
I said I've read the restart guidance and they are not supposed to ask me that, she just brushed it off and said they only asking for information we already have....

Anyway, I 'forgot' my phone at home, why make it easy for them.. the work coach phoned restart and they kept on hanging up on her, the fifth time she phoned she was put on hold number 10 in line..... After half an hour she got to number 5 in line and the phone line went dead...
This WC tried to put the blame on me, said this has never happened before and she usually phones claiments mobiles. I really didn't care what she was saying.

She now can't do warm handover until December 30th as she's going on holiday, as if restart will be in the office then....
She even suggested I borrow someone's phone for the call.🧐. Why should I it's not my fault you don't know what your doing....

1 hour I had to sit there for.

Nice work Catwoman

. Hopefully next time the WC dials the wrong number.

I had to squirm on the chair when I signed on this week and the WC asked how Restart was going. JCP still don't appear to have noticed a start wasn't registered for me cos I wouldn't sign the forms.

by Absolut Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:24 am

The Catwoman wrote:Just went for my warm handover, WC was delighted they were getting to hand me to the sharks, I told her I'm not giving any personal information, she tells me they will ask for national insurance number and a few other things.
I said I've read the restart guidance and they are not supposed to ask me that, she just brushed it off and said they only asking for information we already have....

The roach knows full well that at the time of the call the provider does not have a live contract to provide services to you, as an individual. Where Restart is concerned, the provider has no more right to speak to you than your next door neighbour. The provider is a civilian, just the same as you. They have no more legal right than any other bozo off the street to ask you for your address, dob and NI number. They can't ask the roach if you've been mandated onto Restart either. It's none of their business, at that point, if you have or if you haven't. You can't be mandated onto Restart prior to a start date on Restart so the question is illogical when it's the provider who decides the start date, not the DWP.

If there was a start date for Restart then the provider could simply ring you at home, following you being given a Regulation 5 notice with a start date on it (by the DWP), without the need for the roach to listen out for the start date for them to put on a Reg 5 notice etc. It is the circular nature of their breach of the SAPOE Regulations where it proves they know they are ignoring the voluntary nature of Restart and the regulations that govern mandation to Restart (the SAPOE Regs). When someone ignores the law we call them an "outlaw".

Anyway, I 'forgot' my phone at home, why make it easy for them.. the work coach phoned restart and they kept on hanging up on her, the fifth time she phoned she was put on hold number 10 in line..... After half an hour she got to number 5 in line and the phone line went dead... This WC tried to put the blame on me, said this has never happened before and she usually phones claiments mobiles.

The word "usually" does not equate to "the right to". You are not legally required, under JSA rules, to take equipment into the job centre. The roach also can't listen in to any conversation between you and a third party without your consent.

I really didn't care what she was saying.

Good for you. Best attitude to have.

She now can't do warm handover until December 30th as she's going on holiday, as if restart will be in the office then....

Has she booked you in to attend the JCP on 30 December? Every year, for the last 9 years we have never been made to go in between Christmas and New Year.

She even suggested I borrow someone's phone for the call.🧐. Why should I it's not my fault you don't know what your doing....

She can suggest it all she likes, but she can't mandate any claimant into providing their own equipment for a call from a provider while the claimant is sitting in the job centre. They decided that the call had to take place in a job centre and that means they have to provide the equipment. Your roach isn't exactly endowed with a lot of logic is she?

by Absolut Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:26 am

Ignatius wrote:I had to squirm on the chair when I signed on this week and the WC asked how Restart was going. JCP still don't appear to have noticed a start wasn't registered for me cos I wouldn't sign the forms.

That means there is no link between the JSA system and the Restart PRaP payments system or the roach would know that the contract isn't "live".

by The Catwoman Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:39 am

Yeah,
she's told me what time to come in for on the 30th, whether she has officially put it on the computer I don't know,because everyone is usually excused wsr appointment during Christmas week.

she is pretending she will be there that day, when I know full well she won't.

I forgot to say, the roach was planning on staying at the desk when I took the call, I was under the impression they would step away. So she is clearly wanting to listen in to what I will be saying.

This roach is also playing dumb when it comes to restart guidance, she knows full well I don't have to give my whole life story on a warm hand over call and I had no intention of, as the area I was in had 8 security guards right behind me shouting about football.
I still haven't gotten any official letter regarding taking part in a warm handover.
The roach just laughs it off.

by Guest Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:25 pm

Pintel wrote: "Why are you not in employment?'.

Ask those planks Pintel why they! dont know the answer with them being the all knowing experts. Evil or Very Mad

Maybe it was a trick question...the guilty trip they like to play on people and still cant get it through their thick heads that that line of mental;ity does not work.

Here's a question for roach ville: "why are there still! no decent fulltime jobs which meet the cost of living +£ to go to ? Rolling Eyes

"

Morons answer will no doubt be: "Well, any job is better than no job Rolling Eyes

" When its actually not, for those who can do basic maths Evil or Very Mad

and seek a minute amount of happiness while in work.

Having a huge sign on the building stating Job Centre is an utter piss take in my book. When it suits them, its our job to find a job, and at other times, they start sending every crappy rice grain paying job through the journal and emails etc. Twisted Evil

by Guest Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:36 pm

The Catwoman wrote:Yeah,
she's told me what time to come in for on the 30th, whether she has officially put it on the computer I don't know,because everyone is usually excused wsr appointment during Christmas week.

she is pretending she will be there that day, when I know full well she won't.

I forgot to say, the roach was planning on staying at the desk when I took the call, I was under the impression they would step away. So she is clearly wanting to listen in to what I will be saying.

This roach is also playing dumb when it comes to restart guidance, she knows full well I don't have to give my whole life story on a warm hand over call and I had no intention of, as the area I was in had 8 security guards right behind me shouting about football.
I still haven't gotten any official letter regarding taking part in a warm handover.
The roach just laughs it off.

Anything you feel that coukd be of benefit to you Catwoman like if you have any health issues and have a journal post it to the journal for these planks to see.Same goes for any provider muppetts.They will have to take note and will give you some reasonable control over what they cn and cannot try to insist that you do. Twisted Evil

Your right to be concerened about privacy Catwoman and if they are so unprofessional as to not provide it; ask joke shop manager to book a specif time and an office, for any personal discussions.

by Absolut Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:42 am

The Catwoman wrote:Yeah,
she's told me what time to come in for on the 30th, whether she has officially put it on the computer I don't know,because everyone is usually excused wsr appointment during Christmas week. she is pretending she will be there that day, when I know full well she won't.

Might be best to ring the 0800 number and check if you are excused or not that day? It seems odd for them to be making appointments between Christmas and New Year, especially one that is not a normal WSR.

I forgot to say, the roach was planning on staying at the desk when I took the call, I was under the impression they would step away. So she is clearly wanting to listen in to what I will be saying.

Yes, they do seem quite keen to conduct surveillance.

I still haven't gotten any official letter regarding taking part in a warm handover. The roach just laughs it off.

The FOI about JSA Restart states this:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/879341/response/2107792/attach/3/Dawson%20T%20Response%20FOI2022%2061700.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

The work coach will then book the ‘Restart Scheme referral and handover’ appointment. This is a 20-minute mandatory appointment where the warm handover call takes place between the work coach, claimant, and provider.

This appointment will be booked instead of the claimant’s next regular work search review.

The work coach will then issue the claimant with the following letters:
JSA594 Invite to Work Search Review - Restart Scheme, and
JSA596 Restart Scheme – 3-way call
During the first five minutes of the referral appointment and warm handover call, before inviting the provider onto the call, the work coach must:
complete the eligibility and suitability checks
ensure the claimant has not had any recent change of circumstances that would mean the scheme is no longer appropriate, and
undertake any Business as Usual Work search Reviews.

If you do ring to find out if there is an appt on 30th you could also ask if there is a note about your roach issuing a JSA596 for the last warm handover call. If the answer is no then she's not following what the DWP stated in its FOI. Every new warm handover call has to have a new JSA596 issued.

This roach is also playing dumb when it comes to restart guidance, she knows full well I don't have to give my whole life story on a warm hand over call and I had no intention of, as the area I was in had 8 security guards right behind me shouting about football.

When someone "plays dumb" it can be useful to show them what is in the FOI I have linked to Wink

:

You asked for the legislation which allows a work coach to mandate a claimant into giving personal and private information out loud over the phone, in public, to a provider during a work search review in a jobcentre. There is no legislation to cover this scenario.

by Guest Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:24 pm

Are the regs/legislation for restart scheme applicable to UC inmates too Absolut ? Just trying to get prepared for my ultimate 'invitation'. Twisted Evil

by Absolut Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:57 am

jobberpw wrote:Are the regs/legislation for restart scheme applicable to UC inmates too Absolut ? Just trying to get prepared for my ultimate 'invitation'.

The regulations for UC are that from Day 1 of the claim a claimant is to participate in an interview with a provider when directed to.

You asked for the legislation which allows a work coach to mandate a claimant into giving personal and private information out loud over the phone, in public, to a provider during a work search review in a jobcentre. There is no legislation to cover this scenario.

The above "there is no legislation", applies to every type of claim. If there were legislation of such a type, it would clash with the GDPR. Quite a lot of what roaches order claimants to do clashes with the Equality Act so it's no surprise when they ignore the GDPR. What happens in public is not the same as what happens in private, such as when sitting at home and there is no-one to overhear said personal and private information.

by Guest Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:23 pm

Sounds like its going to be one big party as wont be attending before ive had at least 5 pints of Guiness. From what Ive read today about Restart gave me the chills. Some outstanding comments:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DWPhelp/comments/yvzr1s/the_final_complaint_before_my_honest_review_of/

One day the penny should drop with politicians, that even a total moron like me can see this is a waste of billions of tax payers money:twisted: .

by mandy tori Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:41 pm

wonder how many on that reddit thread have signed the action plan?
that is the only thing i get asked to do thus far

by Absolut Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:37 am

We are being "referred" next week, along with 2 other JSA claimants, who are also seen downstairs, to Maximus Restart. The "plan" is for all 4 of us to "start" on Restart before 20 December and attend the JCP on 20 December (no month break over Christmas this year). No JSA596 has been issued to anyone. Seems our local JCP roaches are happy to help in the ongoing privatisation of their office.

The founder of Maximus wrote the following in his book called "Privateer!":

The government of the future will privatize all services dealing with the public.

Make no mistake, honesty costs money.

https://www.privateerbook.com/book1/

PRIVATEER is the untold story of MAXIMUS, the largest social welfare privatization ﬁrm in America. Find out how a one-man startup evolved into a powerful New York Stock Exchange company that challenged government labor unions and forever changed the management of social welfare entitlement programs.

MAXIMUS revenues grew at an annual average of 36.5% over 29 years, each year earning a proﬁt and never going into debt. The company has managed health care and welfare government programs across the U.S. as well as in Canada, England, and Australia. MAXIMUS staff have replaced thousands of government workers in providing more cost effective and responsive services to people in need.

The book is written for politicians and government ofﬁcials seeking reform, entrepreneurs interested in building a business, citizens concerned with government entitlement programs, and academicians teaching business and public administration. This book presents lessons learned in the real world of government contracting, explaining how MAXIMUS survived intense competition, highly political environments, and hostile government unions to achieve startling success. The company is still going strong today privatizing programs throughout the world.

MAXIMUS staff have replaced thousands of government workers.

This should worry JCP staff where Restart is concerned, but they are too stupid to see what is going on in front of their noses.

When will "Restart" (direction to join a recruitment agency for a year) become a permanent part of a benefits claim? How long did it take the DWP to privatise work capability assessments and sack all the DWP hired GPs? Not long at all.

I don't see Maximus reversing their goal of replacing all government workers with their own. The DWP seems happy to help them.

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.maximusuk.co.uk

The interesting reviews are the ones left by former Maximus employees.

by Ignatius Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:05 am

Absolut and Mr Absolut, Restart for Christmas 🤮🤮🤮.

Re your comments on the privatisation of DWP/JCP, it is very frustrating that their union knows what the long game is and is very anti contracting out, yet the minions at the coalface are so meh about it.

by Guest Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:12 am

"Make no mistake, honesty costs money."

Oh good! heres one for that person. ''I will never! work for rice grains and be treated like a modern day slave into that bargain idealistic dream.Honestly Evil or Very Mad

So, the poor must be dishonest as wont be able to use any services.All in the Tory master plan. NHS is 1st on their list.IMO Twisted Evil

Good to know the likes of Maximus etc, are happy with their deal. Job satisfaction goes a long way Wink

DWP etc more than happy to help them, as all tied to multi million pound contracts; provider companies alike. One happy clappy bandwagon. The way back to capitilism for the poor .... they would have us all believe.

Hear that recruitment agencies already have their snouts in Royal Mail. Another bunch of jobs coming to the market where no one can live on the rice grain pay.

by The Catwoman Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:03 pm

Absolut,
I think the wc was saving that all year for you.
Surly restart are not in their offices on the 20th.

by mandy tori Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:54 pm

Absolut hopefully my experience with maximus will stand you both in good sted, avoid portal (they still try and get me to use it) and dont sign any provider paperwork including the induction (it has carbon paper no word of a lie) and they review your action plan over and over begging you to sign it.

i haven't been asked to do one single thing almost 6 months in..

by Ignatius Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:45 am

Carbon paper??

I thought they were supposed to be equipping people with the skills needed for the contemporary and future workplace, not a 1950's typing pool.

by mandy tori Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:44 pm

Ignatius wrote:Carbon paper??

I thought they were supposed to be equipping people with the skills needed for the contemporary and future workplace, not a 1950's typing pool.

yes the maximus induction pack (has a really stupidly happy girl on the cover) has purple inner pages that when pressed on with a pen bleed through multiple pages, if you have one try it yourself.

not sure if action plan has this same paper as they haven't given me one due to not signing it

edit: it is this one i refer to:-
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/783692/response/1868018/attach/html/6/CPA%202b%20and%205b%20Maximus.pdf.html

specifically page 17 is the carbon one

edit 2: page 14 confirms you don't have to use their portal, although it gets heavily pushed via email on you prior to receiving this induction pamphlet on initial face to face

by Absolut Sat Dec 10, 2022 9:24 am

Sorry everyone, this post is very long.

According to Companies House, Maximus is operating as an employment agency.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09072343

Maximus UK Ltd -

78109 - Other activities of employment placement agencies

Maximus' sole client is the DWP.

In Maximus' latest company accounts they admit that that they are running Restart in some areas of the UK and the WCAs for the DWP.

When a company is acting as an employment placement agency , it doesn't matter who is paying them to run that agency, they are subject to the following regulations:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/3319/regulation/2/made

“work-finding services” means services (whether by the provision of information or otherwise) provided—
(a) by an agency to a person for the purpose of finding that person employment or seeking to find that person employment

“work-seeker” means a person to whom an agency or employment business provides or holds itself out as being capable of providing work-finding services.

6.—(1) Neither an agency nor an employment business may (whether by the inclusion of a term in a contract with a relevant work-seeker or otherwise)—

(a) subject or threaten to subject a relevant work-seeker to any detriment on the ground that—

(i) the relevant work-seeker has terminated or given notice to terminate any contract between the work-seeker and the agency or employment business, or

(b) require the relevant work-seeker to notify the agency or the employment business, or any person with whom it is connected, of the identity of any future employer of the relevant work-seeker.

11.—(2) An agency shall not enter into, nor purport to enter into, a contract—

(a) on behalf of a work-seeker, with a hirer; or

(b) on behalf of a hirer, with a work-seeker,

unless the requirements in paragraph (3) are satisfied.

(3) The requirements referred to in paragraph (2) are that—

(a) the person for whom the agency acts has appointed the agency as his agent with authority to enter into the contract on his behalf; and

(b) where the agency acts for the work-seeker, it is permitted by regulation 26(1) to charge a fee in relation to the introduction or supply to which the contract relates.

14.—(1) Subject to paragraph (7), before first providing any work-finding services to a work-seeker, an agency or employment business shall obtain the agreement of the work-seeker to the terms which apply or will apply as between the agency or employment business and the work-seeker including—

(a) whether the agency or employment business will operate as an employment agency or an employment business in relation to the work-seeker;

(b) the type of work the agency or employment business will find or seek to find for the work-seeker; and

(c) in the case of an employment business, the terms referred to in regulation 15, and in the case of an agency which is to provide any work-finding services mentioned in regulation 16, the terms referred to in that regulation.

(2) Subject to paragraph (3), an agency or employment business shall ensure that —

(a) all terms in respect of which the agency or employment business has obtained a work-seeker’s agreement are recorded in a single document, or where this is not possible, in more than one document; and

(b) copies of all such documents are given at the same time as each other by the agency or employment business to the work-seeker with whom they are agreed before the agency or employment business provides any services to the work-seeker to which the terms contained in such documents relate.

The "single document" is the Action Plan. An AP is not a legally recognised document under benefit regulations and therefore no-one can be compelled to sign one.

(4) Neither an agency nor an employment business may vary any terms set out in a document issued in accordance with paragraph (2), unless the work-seeker to whom they relate agrees to the variation.

19. Neither an agency nor an employment business may introduce or supply a work-seeker to a hirer unless it has obtained confirmation—

(a) of the identity of the work-seeker;

(b) that the work-seeker has the experience, training, qualifications and any authorisation which the hirer considers are necessary, or which are required by law or by any professional body, to work in the position which the hirer seeks to fill; and

(c) that the work-seeker is willing to work in the position which the hirer seeks to fill.

27.—(1) Every advertisement issued or caused to be issued by an agency or employment business shall mention in either audibly spoken words or easily legible characters the full name of the agency or employment business, and whether the services it advertises are those of an agency or an employment business, as the case may be.

28.—(1) Neither an agency nor an employment business may disclose information relating to a work-seeker, without the prior consent of that work-seeker, except—

(a) for the purpose of providing work-finding services to that work-seeker;

(b) for the purposes of any legal proceedings (including arbitration); or

(c) in the case of a work-seeker who is a member of a professional body, to the professional body of which he is a member

30.—(1) Without prejudice to—

(a) any right of action; and

(b) any defence,

which exists or may be available apart from the provisions of the Act and these Regulations, contravention of, or failure to comply with, any of the provisions of the Act or of these Regulations by an agency or employment business shall, so far as it causes damage, be actionable.

(2) In this regulation, “damage” includes the death of, or injury to, any person (including any disease and any impairment of that person’s physical or mental condition).

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