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Post by Pintel on Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:26 pm

I was wondering does anyone know after a claimant has been allocated to the Work & Health program ‘referral tool’ once by your work-roach and you meet the criteria to be selected for this program again. Does the claimant stay on this list (referral tool), or is there a time limit before the claimant has to be entered again? And is the claimant told that they have been removed from the list, or that they have been selected again into the W-H program referral list?     cyclops

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/512521/response/1240647/attach/html/3/Zola%20F%20FOI%203630%20Response.pdf.html

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/work_and_health_programme_random#incoming-1240647
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Post by jobberpw on Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:45 pm

Hi pintel,

Also looking for a definite answer as to your question. And feel like most things designed by dwp etc the true answer will be very hard to come by as that answer will help us to have more control. Went to see a roach about a month ago. He told me I didn't go to the first wonderful 'opportunity' and would see if he could refer me again. Haven't heard anything since and I am seriously bloody hoping he can't.

If the referral on a voluntary basis was given incorrectly, will they or should they start that process again from scratch?

HELP Anyone confused🤔😔😒😠
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Post by Welfare-Champion on Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:39 am

Department for Work and Pensions (DWP)Central Freedom of Information Teamfreedom-of-information-request@dwp.gsi.gov.ukOur reference:FOI3630Date:28 September 2018Dear Mr ZolaThank you for your Freedom of Information (FoI) request received on 22 August 2018, in which you asked:

For your work and health programme (WHP) random allocation/referral tool, does a work coach have to ensure a claimant is face-to-face present and is aware or agrees for the tool to be used and for every time the tool is used when the work coach considers the claimant still meets referral eligibility if the tool does not initially allocate the claimant to the WHP?

Prior to a claimant being allocated, they are invited to an interview with their Jobcentre Plus Work Coach. At this interview they are made aware of the nature of the Work and Health Programme and the support they may receive. They are also made aware that due to the limited places on the programme, they will go through the random allocation process and this means they may or may not receive a place on the programme. The claimant is then asked if they would still like to participate in the provision, and where they agree they will subsequently go through the random allocation process. If a claimant is not referred to the programme at the initial interview and subsequently becomes eligible under different criteria, this process would be repeated. If you have any queries about this letter please contact us quoting the reference number above. Yours sincerely, DWP Central FoI Team

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/512521/response/1240647/attach/3/Zola%20F%20FOI%203630%20Response.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

In an earlier FOI

If a claimant has not been selected via the random selection tool, a new referral can be made by the WC after 6 weeks if the person is still suitable.


WHP referral interview
LMS queue review date matures
1.  When the Labour Market System (LMS) queue review date matures, you must
access the Digital Claimant Activity Messaging Service (DCAMS) and view the
result of the Gatekeeper actions and random allocation.
2.  Access DCAMS using the icon on your desktop.
3.  Enter the National Insurance Number (NINO) on the opening screen.
4.  You can view the Gatekeeper and random allocation outcomes from the:
•  ‘Summary’ tab
•  ‘WHP selection tool’ tab
5.  Expect to see either:
•  Not selected (the date is when the Gatekeeper made their selection for
random allocation)
•  allocated to the Work and Health Programme (WHP)
•  allocated to the Public Sector Comparator (PSC)
•  allocated to the Random Control Group (RCG)
6.  Example: Potential participant 'Not selected' displayed on the summary screen.
________________________________________
7.  Example: Potential participant 'Not selected' displayed on the 'WHP selection
tool' screen.

________________________________________
8.  The table below shows the text outputs for the other possible random allocation
results.
‘Summary’ tab text
‘WHP Selection Tool’ tab text
Allocated to the WHP on
WHP referral outcome
<date>
<Name> was allocated to the Work and Health Programme
Next steps
Please refer <Name> to the provider through the appropriate
referral system (LMS / WSP / DPT)
Allocated to the PSC on
WHP referral outcome
<date>
<Name> was allocated a place with the Public Sector
Comparator
Next steps
Please refer <Name> to the provider through the appropriate
referral system (LMS / WSP / DPT)
Allocated to the RCG on
WHP referral outcome
<date>
<Name> was allocated a place in the Random Control Group
Next steps
Please continue to provide Work Coach support for <Name>
A new referral can be made for <Name> from <date – 2 years
after GK action>
9.  Record the result of Gatekeeper actions and random allocation in Labour Market
System (LMS) conversations.
10. ‘Not selected’ means the potential participant was not selected by the
Gatekeeper to go through to random allocation. They can be resubmitted to the
Work and Health Programme (WHP) again after 6 weeks, but only if the work
coach believes they are still suitable.
11. Three outcomes will present from random allocation and there’s a different
process to follow for each:
•  potential participant allocated to the Work and Health Programme (WHP)
•  potential participant allocated to the Public Sector Comparator (PSC)
________________________________________
•  potential participant allocated to the Random Control Group (RCG)
12. PSC is only available in 4 districts. These are:
•  Lincolnshire, Nottinghamshire and Rutland
•  Leicestershire and Northants
•  Dorset, Wiltshire, Hampshire and the Isle of Wight
•  Devon and Cornwall
Note: Individuals allocated to the Random Control Group (RCG) will be told they
were not successful in getting a place. Unless an individual asks directly, do not
inform them that they have been allocated to the control group as this can change
behaviour and could undermine the evaluation. Although not able to take part in the
WHP for another 24 months, they will be treated in every other way the same as
those not selected for the programme. Potential participants on a work coach
caseload only will continue to receive the business as usual Job Centre Plus offer.
Caseloaded and non caseloaded potential participants can be referred to the
programme again after 24 months if eligible.
13. Individuals who do not want their data processed as part of the evaluation can
ask for it to be removed from the analysis. You must email this request to the
evaluation email inbox.
14. If you identify that the claimant has a Special Customer Record (SCR) or is a
Multi Agency Public Protection Arrangements (MAPPA) case, do not open an
interview on LMS and follow the relevant process.
See: Special Customer Records
See: MAPPA
Referral interview if selected for WHP
1.  Once the random allocation results are known, you must contact the potential
participant and invite them in for a meeting. This will allow you to explain next
steps. Use the WHPL006 'Your meeting details' invite to interview letter.
Note: If potential participant is SCR, you must follow the SCR instructions to conduct
the clerical referral interview.
2.  You must use interview types ‘WHP Voluntary’ and ‘WHP Signposted’ (these can
be 1 to 60 minutes long)
3.  This meeting must take place within 10 working days of being selected. The
appointment must be entered into your diary.
4.  In the Work and Health Programme (WHP) referral meeting, you must take the
following action:


________________________________________
Step
Action
1.
Access your diary.
2.
Start the interview on Labour Market Screen (LMS).
3.
Explain they have been selected for the WHP

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/460415/response/1110039/attach/html/10/8.WHP%20Referral.pdf.

Not selected for WHP
1.If the random allocation result is ‘RCG’ or ‘Not Selected’, you must book an interview on Labour Market System (LMS).
2. You must use the interview types 'WHP voluntary' or 'WHP signposted' along with the WHPL006 'Your meeting details' invite to interview letter.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/460415/response/1110039/attach/10/8.WHP%20Referral.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

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Post by jobberpw on Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:14 pm

Thanks Welfare Champ for that very in depth info.But, from my perspective still not sure as to how I will ultimately stand. When i was first offered this great 'opportunity' they said it was voluntary, but dont know exactly how i was referred, even in a voluntary way, as no cretin in joke shop actually told me or gave me any correct letter ?


"They can be resubmitted to the
Work and Health Programme (WHP) again after 6 weeks, but only if the work
coach believes they are still suitable."

The above would apply to me Welfare Champ, but only because the roach has no comprehension as to what actually is suitable for individuals.


However i am noting all the info you've posted on this to save me the agro of being pushed head first into this sham.
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Post by Tarquin Flotsam on Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:28 am

Welfare-Champion wrote:If a claimant has not been selected via the random selection tool, a new referral can be made by the WC after 6 weeks if the person is still suitable.
When my WC referred me for the dreaded WHP, I was informed at my next appointment that I'd not been selected, as it's random, and then told me I wouldn't be referred again. This was several months ago and there's been no mention of it since then.
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Post by jobberpw on Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:30 pm

Thanks Tarquin. Can only hope I too will get the same outcome. Was a very strange way how they originally referred me and yet still trying to sell me this flying pig of a deal months after initial 'offer' 😊 😠.
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Post by Pintel on Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:59 pm

Thanks for the reply @Welfare-Champion  WHP random allocation/referral tool 2035158131 .

However, there are two points that comes to my mind from the post. Can this interview for the allocation to the program beheld at the same time as a “Sign on/WSR appointment” with the work roach? And secondly does the claimant have to receive another chat/interview about the benefits of the WH-Program ever time as things do change?     scratch

“Prior to a claimant being allocated, they are invited to an interview with their Jobcentre Plus Work Coach. At this interview they are made aware of the nature of the Work and Health Programme and the support they may receive.”

These maybe only minor points, but if the roach doesn’t follow correct procedure you may be able to get out of the scheme. The straw that broke the camel’s back?     geek

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/512521/response/1240647/attach/3/Zola%20F%20FOI%203630%20Response.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1
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Post by Caker on Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:43 pm

jobberpw wrote:Thanks Welfare Champ for that very in depth info.But, from my perspective still not sure as to how I will ultimately stand. When i was first offered this great 'opportunity' they said it was voluntary, but dont know exactly how i was referred, even in a voluntary way, as no cretin in joke shop actually told me or gave me any correct letter ?


"They can be resubmitted to the
Work and Health Programme (WHP) again after 6 weeks, but only if the work
coach believes they are still suitable."

The above would apply to me Welfare Champ, but only because the roach has no comprehension as to what actually is suitable for individuals.


However i am noting all the info you've posted on this to save me the agro of being pushed head first into this sham.

A subject access request might clarify it.
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Post by jobberpw on Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:00 pm

Excellent point Caker, I am half asleep. May do that if I really have to but at this stage don't want to stir the bear.
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Post by Welfare-Champion on Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:05 pm

@Tarquin Flotsam

Welfare-Champion wrote:
If a claimant has not been selected via the random selection tool, a new referral can be made by the WC after 6 weeks if the person is still suitable.
When my WC referred me for the dreaded WHP, I was informed at my next appointment that I'd not been selected, as it's random, and then told me I wouldn't be referred again. This was several months ago and there's been no mention of it since then.

You were clearly unsuitable TF! Lol

@Pintel
Thanks for the reply @Welfare-Champion .

However, there are two points that comes to my mind from the post. Can this interview for the allocation to the program beheld at the same time as a “Sign on/WSR appointment” with the work roach? And secondly does the claimant have to receive another chat/interview about the benefits of the WH-Program ever time as things do change?

“Prior to a claimant being allocated, they are invited to an interview with their Jobcentre Plus Work Coach. At this interview they are made aware of the nature of the Work and Health Programme and the support they may receive.”

These maybe only minor points, but if the roach doesn’t follow correct procedure you may be able to get out of the scheme. The straw that broke the camel’s back?

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/512521/response/1240647/attach/3/Zola%20F%20FOI%203630%20Response.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

I am assuming you were not selected for the WH&P

Yes the wc would have to go through the prior information requirement. It is okay to do this at the WSR.

@jobberpw

You have not been randomly selected for the WHP, so the information I posted above does not apply. Very Happy

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Post by jobberpw on Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:21 pm

Thanks welfare champ. So, this pile of crap can be introduced to people at any joke centre meeting. But the offer should be fully made clear to a claimant and given a specific introduction letter at the jc interview?

If I have this correct, then they're trying to take the piss out of me as the procedure is all over the show.

Trying to get me to attend on the grounds of last time they think I declined because of me health. And I did, but also cos I knew it was a pile of shite just like WP MK1 🙄😊😠

If correct procedure from roach hasn't or isn't followed I wonder if this messes up their mandation games?


Last edited by Caker on Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:12 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
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Post by Welfare-Champion on Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:52 pm

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/847952/dmgch34.pdf

Note 4: The long term unemployed are those claimants who have not moved into employment within 24 months of their claim. The work coach will select claimants for the WHP following the eligibility criteria detailed in the policy for the scheme and operational instructions. The current guidance for notification and participating in a SAPOE scheme will apply equally to the WHP (see DMG 34865 et seq).

Selection for and participation in a relevant scheme Selection for participation
34865 The Secretary of State may select a claimant for participation in a scheme described in relevant legislation1. Note 1: The meaning of claimant means a person who claims a JSA2.
Note 2: The work coach will select claimants for a SAPOE scheme following the eligibility criteria detailed in the policy and operational instructions for the individual scheme (also see DMG 34869).
Note 3: The ‘prior information requirement’3 (see DMG 34033) may be relevant to whether a claimant has been validly selected and referred to a relevant scheme. The Secretary of State has to be able to show that relevant DWP operational guidance has been considered before a claimant is referred to a scheme in the interests of fairness to allow the claimant to make representations regarding their suitability for the scheme (also see guidance at DMG 34871). The onus is then on the claimant to establish that any representations would have changed the decision to refer the claimant to the relevant scheme.
Note 4: Even though the ‘prior information requirement’ means claimants should have the relevant information about a scheme prior to referral to a scheme, there is no obligation to allow claimants to negotiate and decide which scheme they participate in. 1 JSA (SAPOE) Regs, reg 4(1) & reg 3(1); 2 reg 2(1); 3 SSWP v Reilly and Hewstone and SSWP v Jeffrey and Bevan [2016] EWCA Civ 41

Requirement to participate and notification 34866
Claimants who are selected to participate in a relevant scheme have to be notified of this in a written notice1 which specifies
1. that the claimant is required to participate in the scheme2
2.the day on which the claimant’s participation will start3
3. the details of what the claimant is required to do by way of participation4 4.that the claimant is required to participate until
4.1 notice is given by the Secretary of State that participation is no longer required or 4.2 the award of JSA ends whichever is earlier

5.information about the consequences of failing to participate in the relevant scheme6 .
Note 1: Any changes to the details at 3. (ie: details of what the claimant is required to do by way of participation) after the date the claimant starts participating in a relevant scheme must be notified to the claimant in writing7. Note 2: Where the written notice is given by post it is taken to have been received on the second working day after posting8. Note 3: Also see guidance on the ‘prior information requirement’ at DMG 34033. The claimant has to fully understand what is required of them, by when and the consequences (i.e. sanctions) of failing to participate. 1 JSA (SAPOE) Regs, reg 5(1); 2 reg 5(2)(a); 3 reg 5(2)(b); 4 reg 5(2)(c); 5 reg 5(2)(d); 6 reg 5(2)(e); 7 reg 5(3); 8 reg 2(2)

Requirement to notify
34868 The requirement to notify1 is usually met by
1. the issue of a letter to the claimant by the JCP advisor at the point of referral to the relevant scheme (also see Note 3. and DMG 34869) and
2. a notification from JCP or the provider to tell the claimant what specific activity they are actually being mandated to do.
Note 1: As long as all the requirements at DMG 34866 are fulfilled, even if it is by a combination of 1. and 2., this will meet the legal requirement for notification and a sanction may be considered if the claimant fails to participate without good reason (see guidance on evidence of notification at DMG 34872).
Note 2: The notifications at 1. and 2. contain the crucial information required for mandatory participation in an employment scheme. The combined effect of these two notices meet the obligations to properly notify1 which have been tested in the courts2 and found to be valid notices within the legal requirements. Also see guidance on the ‘prior information requirement’ at DMG 34033 et seq.
Note 3: The claimant will also usually be issued with a leaflet outlining the specific scheme. For example, Wp claimants are issued with an information leaflet which outlines the responsibilities whilst participating in the scheme to include attending meetings and taking phone calls as arranged and completing activities the provider tells the claimant to do. All notifications should be recorded and copies made available for the judiciary in the event of an appeal (also see guidance at DMG 34872).
Note 4: See guidance at DMG 34853 with regard to the Sc scheme. 1 JSA (SAPOE) Regs, reg 5; 2 SSWP v Reilly and Hewstone and SSWP v Jeffrey and Bevan [2016] EWCA Civ 413 34869 In addition to the notifications outlined at DMG 34868 1. and 2. the JCP advisor will have discussed with or advised the claimant 1.the benefits of participation in a relevant scheme, 2.what is expected of them whilst participating and 3.the consequences of failing to participate before they are mandated to take part.
Note 1: This gives the claimant opportunity to raise any representations about the scheme in order to meet the ‘prior information requirement’ (also see DMG 34033). Note 2: The onus is on the claimant to establish that any representations would have changed the decision to refer the claimant to the scheme (also see guidance at DMG 34865).

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Post by jobberpw on Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:02 pm

Many thanks welfare champ but that info takes some absorbing.... for me.

Maybe good to clearly indicate for me and others just the particular a-z of (when being mandated to whp.)

Forgive me if you've already covered this somewhere else on forum.

I guess everyone will be looking for a very quick fix to bang on roaches desk with. This circus is to be avoided at all costs of possible.

Lonson123 will also require the info you posted in a more condensed form, if possible.

I am guessing that 'not being advised of failure to participate' in writing, would have a baring on all this ?

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Post by Welfare-Champion on Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:32 pm

jobberpw wrote:Many thanks welfare champ but that info takes some absorbing.... for me.

Maybe good to clearly indicate for me and others just the particular a-z of (when being mandated to whp.)

Forgive me if you've already covered this somewhere else on forum.

I guess everyone will be looking for a very quick fix to bang on roaches desk with. This  circus is to be avoided at all costs of possible.

Lonson123 will also require the info you posted in a more condensed form, if possible.

I am guessing that 'not being advised of failure to participate' in writing, would have a baring on all this ?

Jobber

I think we may need a RB team effort as well as a new thread to agree a step by step process from the moment the JCP wc mentions the W&HP.

Question


Last edited by Welfare-Champion on Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by jobberpw on Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:40 pm

Yes totally agree. I am all for that and will help more so and maybe sooner than I think with my stories from hell to posted here soon.

Will pm you soon WC with the letter they did actually send me. A sure sign my head is in knots, as was adamant they had not. 🙄😊
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Post by Welfare-Champion on Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:47 pm

jobberpw wrote:Yes totally agree. I am all for that and will help more so and maybe sooner than I think with my stories from hell to posted here soon.

Will pm you soon WC with the letter they did actually send me. A sure sign my head is in knots, as was adamant they had not. 🙄😊

WHP random allocation/referral tool 2035158131

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Post by Pintel on Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:52 am

I did have a sheet that I printed off (A4 size) to keep on my person. That was about the 'Work Program', of 'does and dont's' when visiting the provider. It was like a toolkit/survival pack, but useful nevertheless, instead of having to have a folder on me, and having to go through reams of paper. Maybe when the 'facts' are in someone could create one on a pdf file  and post here?

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Post by jobberpw on Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:57 pm

"It was like a toolkit/survival pack, "

That sounds excellent Pintel,if you come across it can you share some main points to help us all . Wink
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Post by Tarquin Flotsam on Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:21 am

Welfare-Champion wrote:https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/847952/dmgch34.pdf

Note 4: The long term unemployed are those claimants who have not moved into employment within 24 months of their claim.
This I find interesting, and I'm wondering if this takes into account claimants who have switched from JSA to UC. As I stated around a year ago, I moved to a completely different area where I was (mistakenly) told my JSA couldn't be transferred over to the new jobcentre and I'd have to make a new claim for UC, as my new JCP only dealt with UC claims (this also turned out to be a false statement).

So, switching to UC would be counted as a "new" claim as your old JSA claim is closed once you switch...? And if so, why was I referred to the WHP barely a few months into claiming UC? Hmmm...
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Post by Welfare-Champion on Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:43 am

Tarquin Flotsam wrote:
Welfare-Champion wrote:https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/847952/dmgch34.pdf

Note 4: The long term unemployed are those claimants who have not moved into employment within 24 months of their claim.
This I find interesting, and I'm wondering if this takes into account claimants who have switched from JSA to UC. As I stated around a year ago, I moved to a completely different area where I was (mistakenly) told my JSA couldn't be transferred over to the new jobcentre and I'd have to make a new claim for UC, as my new JCP only dealt with UC claims (this also turned out to be a false statement).

So, switching to UC would be counted as a "new" claim as your old JSA claim is closed once you switch...? And if so, why was I referred to the WHP barely a few months into claiming UC? Hmmm...

Long Term Unemployed Participants
14.Participants will be deemed to be Long Term Unemployed when they reach the following point in their benefit claim:
JSA Participants at 24 months including linking periods
UC Participants who start in the IntensiveWork Search Regime (IWSR) and are in the IWSR when they reach 24 months discounting change of circumstances within the 24 month period and
Participants migrated to Universal Credit Full Service (UCFS) from legacy benefits will be considered when their time on legacy benefits including linking rules and their time in the IWSR totals 24 months.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/834502/work-and-health-programme-provider-guidance-chapter-2.pdf

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Post by jobberpw on Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:12 pm

Think if these morons get their way, will eventually have big signs up saying "job seekers signing on, this way to WHP. " Will rule out any time frame for claiming and mandated immediately. That will be their plan. They probably don't as provider companies wouldn't cope with the stampede. Bums on seats=£ that's all these sharks are interested in. And why we all need to get prepared to give them as hard time as possible.

Sorry rant over. It's my 5th cup of coffee ☕
jobberpw
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Post by Gallazz on Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:35 pm

Tarquin Flotsam wrote:I moved to a completely different area where I was (mistakenly) told my JSA couldn't be transferred over to the new jobcentre and I'd have to make a new claim for UC, as my new JCP only dealt with UC claims (this also turned out to be a false statement).

Bloody hell, Tarquin! That must have caused some hardship.

I presume you can avoid natural migration in error by telling them you won't be making a claim for UC.

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