Should I trust this particular agency?

Just gathering opinions as I already know what I think.

Offered a job though an agency. Really pleased until I started to read the small print. This particular agency says (in their standard terms and conditions) that they pay a timesheet seven days after the client business has paid them OR 2 months after it was submitted by the worker, whichever is sooner.  

An example:

Scenario 1 the worker submits the weekly timesheet on Friday and the client pays the agency 1 week later. The worker will be paid 2 weeks after they submitted the timesheet.  

Scenario 2 the worker submits the weekly timesheet on Friday and the client pays the agency 9 weeks later (or fails to ever pay) in which case the worker will be paid 2 months after they submitted the timesheet (before the client has paid the agency).  

The worker can only be responsible for when they submitted the timesheet. They have no influence over when they will be paid

My impression was that workers are entitled to be paid regardless of whether the agency has been paid or not.

This practice looks unethical to me. I have been assured that there really is no need for concern as payment is usually weekly and prompt. If that is the case, why do they need such terms, for the workers to agree to, in writing?  

I should mention that weekly payment is usual in the sector in question.

Really looking forward to any comments. Cheers.

Caker wrote:Just gathering opinions as I already know what I think.

Offered a job though an agency. Really pleased until I started to read the small print. This particular agency says (in their standard terms and conditions) that they pay a timesheet seven days after the client business has paid them OR 2 months after it was submitted by the worker, whichever is sooner.  

Common sense would imply (but never assume too much) that there are cases when the worker simply forgets to submit the timesheets to the agency. In which case the agency would assume the worker is ok with the hours as provided by the company, and at the run of the two months, they'll pay out.

Can we know the name of the agency?

Caker, don't know if this is any use.  

"Rights while working as an agency worker

Pay rights

In many ways, an agency worker has the same pay rights as anybody to:

   

• receive the relevant National Minimum Wage and National Living Wage
     not have any unlawful deductions made from their pay
     be paid on time and by the agreed method
     receive Payslips.
  

However, there are some differences.

   An agency worker's pay may vary from assignment to assignment - but it should be agreed before an assignment begins, and not be below the rate agreed in their terms and conditions and/or contract.

   Many agencies use timesheets. If a timesheet cannot be provided, the agency worker must still be paid and it is the agency's responsibility to establish what hours were worked. An agency may only delay a payment to confirm what hours have been worked and only for a reasonable amount of time.

   An agency worker must still be paid on time by their agency, even where the agency has problems getting payment from the hiring organisation.
"
https://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=6493#payrights

I suppose the phrase "on time" could be used to justify being paid 2 months late, if that's what you've agreed to?  And what is "a reasonable amount of time"?

Reasonable time:
11Regulation 11 – Entering into a contract on behalf of a clientThis   regulation,   whilst   it   applies   to   all   employment   agencies   and  employment  businesses,  is  mainly  relevant  to  those  operating  in  the  entertainment and modelling sectors.All  employment  businesses  are  prohibited  from  both  entering  into  a contract with a hirer on behalf or a worker and vice versa entering into a contact with a worker on behalf of a hirer.  Employment   agencies   are   similarly   prohibited   except   where   the  provisions of regulation 11(3) are complied with and these are that:•the agency has been appointed by and has the authority of the party it is acting as agent for, so to act; and•where the agency is acting as agent for work-seekers and it is permitted  under  regulation  26(1)  to  charge    a  fee  for  finding  them   work   (these   are   mainly   performers,   models   and  professional sports persons).Regulation 11(4) and (5) requires that agencies ensure that the terms of the contract be notified to the parties as soon as practicable but no later than  the  end  of  the  fifth  business  day  following  the  day  on  which  the  agency entered into the contract.Regulation  11(6)  provides  that  an  agency  may  not  act  as  agent  for  both  the hirer and the work-seeker simultaneously.Regulation     12 –     Prohibition     on     employment     businesses  withholding payment to work-seekers  on certain groundsRegulation  12  provides  that  an  employment  businessmust  not  withhold  or  threaten  to  withhold  the  whole  or  part  of  any  payment  to  a  temporary  work-seeker in respect of any work s/he has done on the basis that:(a)the  employment  business  has  not  received  payment  from  the  hirer;(b)the  work-seeker  has  not  produced  a  signed  timesheet  confirming  that  s/he  has  worked  during  a  particular  period  of  time.  In  practice,  if  a  hirer will not sign a timesheet verifying the number of hours a temporary worker  claims  to  have  worked,  the  employment  business  cannot  leave  the  matter  there  and  refuse  to  pay  the  temporary  work-seeker  because  s/he  could  not  produce  a  signed  timesheet.    However,  the  employment  business  is  not  prevented  from  reasonably  delaying  payment  (for  a relatively  short  time)  while  it  makes  reasonable  inquiries  to  verify  the  hours  the  temporary  work-seeker  did  work.    For  example  by  contacting  the   hirer,   interviewing   co-workers   or   checking   on   site   attendance  
12registers  or  other  records.    It  may  be  that  the  hirer  is  refusing  to  sign  a  timesheet  because  the  work  done  was  below  the  standard  required  and  so  the  hirer  does  not  want  to  pay  for  it.    This  will  not  justify  the  employment  business      withholding  the  work-seekers’  pay.    Obviously  this  is  a  contractual  matter  between  the  employment  business  and  the  hirer  and  one,  which  cannot  be  resolved    by  withholding  payment  from  the  work-seeker.    The  important  point  is  that  the  employment  business  must pay the work-seeker for work done.  This regulation is not intended to  have  the  effect  of  forcing  the  employment  business  to  pay  a  work-seeker for any hours claimed if that work-seeker has not actually worked those  hours.  This  regulation  does  not  prohibit  the  use  of  timesheets  or  other documents used to verify hours worked.(c)the  work-seeker  has  not  worked  during  any  period  in  addition  to  the  period  s/he  is  claiming  payment  for.    (For  example  it  used  to  be  common  to  find  clauses  in  a  temporary  work-seeker’s  contract,  which  stated that if s/he was late for an assignment or did not work a full week, a  stated  amount  would  be  deducted  from  his/her  hourly  rate  for  every  hour s/he did work.  Under this regulation, however, it will be unlawful to insert a term into a temporary work-seeker’s contract which provides that, if  s/he  does  not  work  for  a  specified  number  of  hours  per  week,  the  employment  business  will  either  pay  the  work-seeker  at  a  lower  rate  for  work done or refuse payment altogether); or(d)  any  matter  which  is  within  the  employment  business’  control.  (An  example  of  such  a  matter  would  be  the  proper  administration  of  the  payroll.)  This does not mean that if the employment business makes an administrative  error  with  its  payroll,  it  will  automatically  be  in  breach  of  regulation 12(d).  Rather it means that, if having made such an error, the employment  business  does  not  correct  it  and  make  payment  to  the  temporary  work-seeker, by whatever means, within a reasonable amount of  time  of  the  expected  pay  date  i.e.  within  a  few  days,  the  employment  business will be in breach of regulation 12(d).Please  see  the  notes  on  Schedule1  for  the  transitional  provisions relating to regulation 12.PART III:  

https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20090609015241/http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file24248.pdf

Miguel1975 wrote:

Caker wrote:Just gathering opinions as I already know what I think.

Offered a job though an agency. Really pleased until I started to read the small print. This particular agency says (in their standard terms and conditions) that they pay a timesheet seven days after the client business has paid them OR 2 months after it was submitted by the worker, whichever is sooner.  

Common sense would imply (but never assume too much) that there are cases when the worker simply forgets to submit the timesheets to the agency. In which case the agency would assume the worker is ok with the hours as provided by the company, and at the run of the two months, they'll pay out.

Can we know the name of the agency?

Most people (I assume) are exactly like myself and submit the timesheets as early as possible because they want to get paid on time. Of course, those with lots of ready cash might not need to be paid so quickly and they might find they can readily support themselves for 2 months while they wait for the payment


I cannot name names as to do so would give away my identity too.

In any case, this is not about the worker forgetting to submit the timesheet (their fault if they do). This is about the worker submitting the timesheet promptly but still not being paid in a timely way because of this clause.

Welfare-Champion wrote:Reasonable time:
11Regulation 11 – Entering into a contract on behalf of a clientThis   regulation,   whilst   it   applies   to   all   employment   agencies   and  employment  businesses,  is  mainly  relevant  to  those  operating  in  the  entertainment and modelling sectors.All  employment  businesses  are  prohibited  from  both  entering  into  a contract with a hirer on behalf or a worker and vice versa entering into a contact with a worker on behalf of a hirer.  Employment   agencies   are   similarly   prohibited   except   where   the  provisions of regulation 11(3) are complied with and these are that:•the agency has been appointed by and has the authority of the party it is acting as agent for, so to act; and•where the agency is acting as agent for work-seekers and it is permitted  under  regulation  26(1)  to  charge    a  fee  for  finding  them   work   (these   are   mainly   performers,   models   and  professional sports persons).Regulation 11(4) and (5) requires that agencies ensure that the terms of the contract be notified to the parties as soon as practicable but no later than  the  end  of  the  fifth  business  day  following  the  day  on  which  the  agency entered into the contract.Regulation  11(6)  provides  that  an  agency  may  not  act  as  agent  for  both  the hirer and the work-seeker simultaneously.Regulation     12 –     Prohibition     on     employment     businesses  withholding payment to work-seekers  on certain groundsRegulation  12  provides  that  an  employment  businessmust  not  withhold  or  threaten  to  withhold  the  whole  or  part  of  any  payment  to  a  temporary  work-seeker in respect of any work s/he has done on the basis that:(a)the  employment  business  has  not  received  payment  from  the  hirer;(b)the  work-seeker  has  not  produced  a  signed  timesheet  confirming  that  s/he  has  worked  during  a  particular  period  of  time.  In  practice,  if  a  hirer will not sign a timesheet verifying the number of hours a temporary worker  claims  to  have  worked,  the  employment  business  cannot  leave  the  matter  there  and  refuse  to  pay  the  temporary  work-seeker  because  s/he  could  not  produce  a  signed  timesheet.    However,  the  employment  business  is  not  prevented  from  reasonably  delaying  payment  (for  a relatively  short  time)  while  it  makes  reasonable  inquiries  to  verify  the  hours  the  temporary  work-seeker  did  work.    For  example  by  contacting  the   hirer,   interviewing   co-workers   or   checking   on   site   attendance  
12registers  or  other  records.    It  may  be  that  the  hirer  is  refusing  to  sign  a  timesheet  because  the  work  done  was  below  the  standard  required  and  so  the  hirer  does  not  want  to  pay  for  it.    This  will  not  justify  the  employment  business      withholding  the  work-seekers’  pay.    Obviously  this  is  a  contractual  matter  between  the  employment  business  and  the  hirer  and  one,  which  cannot  be  resolved    by  withholding  payment  from  the  work-seeker.    The  important  point  is  that  the  employment  business  must pay the work-seeker for work done.  This regulation is not intended to  have  the  effect  of  forcing  the  employment  business  to  pay  a  work-seeker for any hours claimed if that work-seeker has not actually worked those  hours.  This  regulation  does  not  prohibit  the  use  of  timesheets  or  other documents used to verify hours worked.(c)the  work-seeker  has  not  worked  during  any  period  in  addition  to  the  period  s/he  is  claiming  payment  for.    (For  example  it  used  to  be  common  to  find  clauses  in  a  temporary  work-seeker’s  contract,  which  stated that if s/he was late for an assignment or did not work a full week, a  stated  amount  would  be  deducted  from  his/her  hourly  rate  for  every  hour s/he did work.  Under this regulation, however, it will be unlawful to insert a term into a temporary work-seeker’s contract which provides that, if  s/he  does  not  work  for  a  specified  number  of  hours  per  week,  the  employment  business  will  either  pay  the  work-seeker  at  a  lower  rate  for  work done or refuse payment altogether); or(d)  any  matter  which  is  within  the  employment  business’  control.  (An  example  of  such  a  matter  would  be  the  proper  administration  of  the  payroll.)  This does not mean that if the employment business makes an administrative  error  with  its  payroll,  it  will  automatically  be  in  breach  of  regulation 12(d).  Rather it means that, if having made such an error, the employment  business  does  not  correct  it  and  make  payment  to  the  temporary  work-seeker, by whatever means, within a reasonable amount of  time  of  the  expected  pay  date  i.e.  within  a  few  days,  the  employment  business will be in breach of regulation 12(d).Please  see  the  notes  on  Schedule1  for  the  transitional  provisions relating to regulation 12.PART III:  

https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20090609015241/http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file24248.pdf

Thanks for this EffJay. My argument with the agency is that the possibility of waiting 2 months is not reasonable because it shifts the agency cash flow burdens to the worker when they rightly belong to the agency.

The point here is that the particular agency (in their terms and conditions) are maintaining the right to delay payment until they have received the money from the client, even in the event that the worker has submitted a signed timesheet on time.

I have no idea if their terms are lawful or not.

My concern is that as the assignment is short term duration (we are talking weeks not months) then any delayed payment may be processed after the work has ended and the worker has potentially reclaimed UC. In that case, the payment would be subject to the taper rate when made, whereas if the worker had been fully paid everything they earned, before making a new UC claim, it would have the effect that no wages would be paid during the new claim and the person would just receive their UC entitlement.

The effect of the delayed timing is that the person finds themselves financially penalised because they will receive less than they would have if all payments were complete prior to the UC claim.

Caker wrote:The point here is that the particular agency (in their terms and conditions) are maintaining the right to delay payment until they have received the money from the client, even in the event that the worker has submitted a signed timesheet on time.

This is common practice and you'll see a clause like that in all contracts. The agency takes a cut from the client, but first they have to be paid by the client in order to then pay the temp. I guess any recruitment agency would stop working for a client if they weren't paid on time.

I think you're reading too much into that.

I don't like agencies, actually I hate them, but they all have legal departments and wouldn't write stuff in their contract if that wasn't legally bomb-proof.

Miguel1975 wrote:This is common practice and you'll see a clause like that in all contracts. The agency takes a cut from the client, but first they have to be paid by the client in order to then pay the temp. I guess any recruitment agency would stop working for a client if they weren't paid on time.

I think you're reading too much into that.

I don't like agencies, actually I hate them, but they all have legal departments and wouldn't write stuff in their contract if that wasn't legally bomb-proof.

I am well aware that agencies charge the client a higher rate than they pay the temp, but the practice described, takes the biscuit. Usually the agency would pay weekly out of their own cash flow. They may use businesses from the financial sector to be able to keep on top of late payments. Before supplying the temp, the agency would perform their own due diligence to establish the credit rating of the client business, but none of that involves the temp at all.

I have decided not to use this particular agency. Temps are entitled to be given information about how often they will be paid, under section 7 of the REC code of practice.

https://www.rec.uk.com/about-us/membership/compliance/code-of-practice2