dwp letter burden of proof

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dwp letter burden of proof

Post by Admin on Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:32 am

many of us have been here and had to appeal a dwp letter falsely sent or even not sent at all by a dwp advisor

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2017/10/13/mum-and-new-baby-face-christmas-eviction-after-dwp-perverts-burden-of-proof/

The DWP is claiming that Ms Madonia is lying about not receiving a letter because there is no evidence to show that it didn’t arrive.

This is a perversion of logic, and one of the occasions in which the claim that “you cannot prove a negative” in fact rings true.

If a person did not receive a letter, having had no reason to expect it, then it is illogical to expect them to provide proof that they didn’t have it. What are they supposed to offer?

another part to this tale

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2017/10/13/this-is-the-reason-we-dont-even-trust-the-dwp-to-send-us-letters-any-more/

The story about the new mother – and her baby – who are facing eviction because the Department for Work and Pensions cut off her ESA on the grounds that she couldn’t prove she didn’t receive a letter (an impossible task) has sparked a huge reaction.

Jacqui Madonia is now trying to survive on one foodbank voucher a week, a single hardship payment of £80, and the “occasional tenner here and there” from her family, after the DWP claimed she had missed an appointment for a Work Capability Assessment – for which she was not notified.
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Re: dwp letter burden of proof

Post by Absolut on Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:19 am

And where is the proof that it was delivered to the right address?

A new worker for the post office put my WCA appointment letter through my next door neighbour's letter box. The house is unoccupied and has been since the previous occupant died. If the builder who is doing up the house hadn't been there and brought the letter round to me I wouldn't have had my WCA letter either.

Yes, it was delivered - but to the wrong address by an employee of the post office. If the DWP cuts our money off due to the post office not delivering the letter do we then sue the Post Office for that mistake? Nah, I didn't think so.

As it states in the article - they have the claimant's phone number. When I was on JSA I got text reminders about my signing on day so there is no excuse for CHDAUK (Maximus) not to do the same.
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Re: dwp letter burden of proof

Post by Admin on Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:02 pm

only had missing letters by the work programme not by jobcenter

however the only way they could contact me was by post anyway my phone was for emergency only and not for anyone else weather they liked it or not.

i wasnt going to give them the number otherwise id just snap the sim card up infront of them
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Re: dwp letter burden of proof

Post by Caker on Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:43 am

I have less to worry about since stopping telephone contact. Brown envelopes are bad enough without the worry of 'brown' telephone calls. Neutral
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Re: dwp letter burden of proof

Post by ABC on Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:29 pm

Absolut wrote:
And where is the proof that it was delivered to the right address?
Yes, it was delivered - but to the wrong address by an employee of the post office.


This is a worry for me now that the Work and Health Programme is upon us. Naturally they'll only be getting my home address for communication purposes so letters are mandatory. The problem being that the post is always going astray on my road. I know this because I've had a few letters never arrive (not DWP ones fortunately) and I know they're being posted at my number on another street or to my next door neighbours. How do I know? Because of the five or six letters I've had to post on that have been wrongly delivered to me this past few months, same number but different road or my next door neighbours mail!  Mad

The issue, which makes my blood boil, is that letters from DWP or providers is assumed (unless you can prove a negative!) to have been delivered and received by the claimant two working days after being posted. Never mind that there is a) no real proof they were posted to begin with and b) were actually delivered to the claimant. It's the usual one rule for them and another for the claimant. You try convincing the Jobcentre that you sent them a letter if they claim not to have received it, even if you've got a posting receipt as proof.  Mad

So, yes, getting a bit worried about how to handle the WHP provider with regard to receiving mail from them. I'm minded to insist they send all communications involving mandatory activities to me by recorded delivery but I doubt they'll buy in to that. And no, I'm not giving them my telephone number or email!  Razz

The alternative is that they'll no doubt tell me to come in every day just in case there's something they need to contact me urgently about if I refuse to give my email address and/or telephone number and I can't recall whether that's legal or not but I'm sure it was discussed on the old forum. Anyone know or remember?
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Re: dwp letter burden of proof

Post by helping_hand on Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:45 am

Case law (R(JSA) 1/04) assists claimants to prove their case on the balance of probabilities when DWP letters are not received/posted.

http://www.osscsc.gov.uk/Aspx/view.aspx?id=1078

A sample letter may be found here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160101000000*/unemploymentmovement.com

DWP and its contractors have a duty to consider each claimants circumstances.  If a person has a particular disability or learning difficulty and/or problems with their post they can insist that mandatory notifications are issued by hand.

Some people may choose to receive text reminders and/or appointments take place at a particular time and/or day.

Providing the WPP with an email or telephone number is not a labour market activity.  Therefore, a mandate cannot be issued to supply this information.

15.The activity should be something that will help participants by enhancing their
employment prospects
and developing skills and disciplines associated with a normal
working environment (for example attending on time, carrying out tasks, working as a
team, interpersonal skills). Those skills also include "behaviours" acceptable in a place
of work.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/505310/wp-pg-chapter-3a.pdf

DWP provides DWP contractors with essential information for the initial contact.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/provider-referrals-and-payments-prap-system-for-dwp

There is a risk of more frequent attendance if the WPP participant cannot be notified of jobs by post, email or by phone.
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Re: dwp letter burden of proof

Post by Brutus on Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:44 am




Alas, the sample letter in:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160101000000*/unemploymentmovement.com
is somewhere in the preserved archived remains of UM.
I think it could be useful, as it can happen to anyone at any time, if there could be a downloadable example from the site.

I would be happy to download it from the original and reformat it as a text document, if I could find the page.
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Re: dwp letter burden of proof

Post by helping_hand on Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:26 am

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Re: dwp letter burden of proof

Post by Caker on Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:49 am

Whenever I click on jobseekersanctionadvice.com, I get a page saying I am banned. I am sure I never have been though. scratch
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Re: dwp letter burden of proof

Post by El-dudeareno on Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:55 pm

No worry's Caker, I get the same 'You have been banned' so it isn't you for once  




Last edited by El-dudeareno on Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:58 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : extra)
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Re: dwp letter burden of proof

Post by helping_hand on Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:03 pm

If I remove the Opera VPN facility the site is fully visible.

With VPN on I am banned.

I understand all wordpress sites are subjected to aggressive hacking attacks.

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Re: dwp letter burden of proof

Post by Caker on Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:08 pm

...Thanks HH, I knew it must be some tech' thing.

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Re: dwp letter burden of proof

Post by Caker on Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:12 pm

El-dudeareno wrote:No worry's Caker, I get the same 'You have been banned' so it isn't you for once  






We are all banned

lol!
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Re: dwp letter burden of proof

Post by Admin on Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:45 pm

Caker wrote:Whenever I click on jobseekersanctionadvice.com, I get a page saying I am banned. I am sure I never have been though. scratch

on that one i was banned but searched through google not banned

https://jobseekersanctionadvice.com/
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Re: dwp letter burden of proof

Post by Caker on Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:02 pm

Thanks Admin'.
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Re: dwp letter burden of proof

Post by Admin on Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:58 pm

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Re: dwp letter burden of proof

Post by Brutus on Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:40 pm

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Re: dwp letter burden of proof

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