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SBWA course when on Universal Credit.

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SBWA course when on Universal Credit. Empty SBWA course when on Universal Credit.

Post by Tarquin Flotsam Fri May 31, 2019 10:25 am

I know from previous experience that they couldn't mandate you to participate in a SBWA course when on JSA, but now I'm on UC I'm wondering what I should do now that my current work coach is putting on the squeeze and insisting I take part in this course which is "To gain LEVEL 1 CERTIFICATE in Skills for Retail".



The course itself doesn't start until the 14th June, and I have my monthly appointment with her 3 or 4 days before it begins. So, any advice out there on how to tackle avoiding this utterly pointless course I'd be most grateful for!!!
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Post by Non Deficere Fri May 31, 2019 2:27 pm

Well, hello TF.

The work experience element of the SBWA is still voluntary under UC.

To avoid the training you can make representation by, giving your reasons to why the course is unsuitable for your particular circumstances.

I am assuming retail is listed within your cc.  If so, enrolling on a free, level 2 Retail course would be more helpful than level 1 and provides one very good reason.

https://distance-learning-courses.co.uk/courses/level-2-understanding-retail-operations/

Edit:  Just read the addendum, your other circumstances need to be taken into account too.
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Post by Tarquin Flotsam Fri May 31, 2019 4:49 pm

Hi Non Deficere.

One other problem is that they require 2 types of ID before taking the course. As stated:
SBWA course when on Universal Credit. Id10

I don't have a valid passport, it expired about 2 years ago, no driving licence, or any utility bill for the past 3 months, which would prove difficult considering I have no permanent residence! All I can provide is my birth certificate. I have contacted my coach since her last message telling her I'm not "reluctant" as such to get any help or support, just that it's all rather difficult regarding my current situation! I also informed her I'd be more than willing to go on any other course if it was helpful to me gaining future employment, whereas taking this level 1 course which is almost identical to the one I took before won't be beneficial whatsoever. Also, won't the provider not receive any funding if I've taken a very similar course before, and therefore send me home once they're made aware of this?

I could email you the pdf files my coach sent me regarding this course, if it helps? I think I still have your email address saved somewhere...!
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Post by Caker Fri May 31, 2019 5:39 pm

@TF
I wonder if it might be worth contacting the provider (if you have their contact details) and asking if you are eligible, since you already hold the relevant qualification. They might say you are not. Best to make contact via email if you decide to go down that route.

Just a thought.
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Post by Non Deficere Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:28 am

Have you been mandated to attend TF?

I think you have all the bases covered, but you can email me if necessary.
My first granchild is on the way  Very Happy  so there may be some delay in replying.
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Post by Tarquin Flotsam Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:40 pm

Thanks ND.
The only thing I'm having trouble with is trying to convince her that this course is of absolutely no use to me whatsoever, and I really could do without the 2 hours+ travelling by a crap bus service, there and back, to do something I've already done before...
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Post by Non Deficere Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:42 pm

If your work coach persists, my suggested response:

Further to our discussions in regards to the retail course at X college.

I have explained my circumstances as well as my reasons why the training is not appropriate for me.

I know that I am required to take particular action that is likely to improve my prospects of obtaining work.

16Work preparation requirement

(1)In this Part a “work preparation requirement” is a requirement that a claimant take particular action specified by the Secretary of State for the purpose of making it more likely in the opinion of the Secretary of State that the claimant will obtain paid work (or more paid work or better-paid work).

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/5/section/16/enacted

My proposal, is to undertake a level 2 NVQ Understanding Retail Operations (distance learning) course, which will be more attractive to employers and is achievable in light of all my particular circumstances.



Last edited by Non Deficere on Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:54 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Non Deficere Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:34 am

SBWA is voluntary for UC claimants.  

http://data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files/DEP2019-0465/Sector-based_work_academies_v1.0.pdf

A SBWA has to include work experience, which doesn't seem to be part of your course TF.

Let us know how you get on please.
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Post by Tarquin Flotsam Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:38 am

Thanks ND. It does seem rather confusing, as like you said a SWBA course has to include work experience (as stated in the pdf in your post) but this one doesn't. In fact the only reference I can see to it being a SWBA course is in the email sent to me by my work coach, yet the pdf files she sent with details of the course show no indication that it is SWBA. Hmmm...

Also, in reference to this:
SBWA course when on Universal Credit. Op10

I'm not sure exactly what regime I'm under, though I imagine it's the work-focused interview regime, as my coach has stated she wishes me to "progress to the interview stage". She has indicated that there has been some kind of easement on my claim due to my currently being "homeless", but again I'm not totally sure if that is still the case. I have pointed out to her several times, in appointments and in my UC journal, that I'm currently sofa surfing trying to find somewhere permanent to live...
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Post by Non Deficere Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:54 am

You are in the IWSR group:

1.Intensive Work Search -for those who are able to work, but are either not working at the moment or are in work but earning low amounts below theAdministrative Earnings Threshold. They are expected to take intensive action to secure work or more work attending regular Work-Focused Interviews, attending Work Search Reviews(at least fortnightly) and undertaking work preparation, work search and other work-related activities.

Conditionality group is 'All Work-Related Requirements'.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/366996/response/904624/attach/5/2%20Conditionality%20and%20regime%20Overview.pdf

You can be mandated to undertake training.
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Post by Tarquin Flotsam Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:35 am

Non Deficere wrote:They are expected to take intensive action to secure work or more work attending regular Work-Focused Interviews, attending Work Search Reviews(at least fortnightly) and undertaking work preparation, work search and other work-related activities.
Again confusing because since I've been on UC I've only had monthly appointments...
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Post by Non Deficere Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:55 am

Easements will apply due to your circumstances.
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Post by Tarquin Flotsam Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:48 am

I emailed my work coach a certificate I had for a very similar course, and at our appointment the other day there was no mention of the email I sent or the SBWA course she wished to send me on. But... a sting in the tale:
She's now referring me to the Shaw Trust, who are part of the Work & Health Programme, to help me find employment...

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Post by Non Deficere Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:04 am

I am presuming it is a voluntary referral?

14. Whether eligible Participants access the WHP will be determined by a process of random allocation. If a Participant is randomly allocated, they will be referred by the Work Coach to the supplier on a mandatory basis.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/678133/whp-provider-guidance-chapter-2-particpant-identification-eligibility-referral.pdf
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Post by Tarquin Flotsam Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:34 am

I certainly didn't tell her I wanted to be referred to them! I can't remember her exact words but she said something about how they'll be a great help to me in finding work/suitable courses so she's putting my name forward. Considering I had the option of siging up with them a few months ago and declined, knowing that it is voluntary, odds are they won't get back to me.
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Post by jobberpw Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:46 pm

Hi all,

I was reffered to WHP but on a voluntary basis, that came about just in a casual conversation with roach. However, due to the initial discussion and the way I was reffered can they now mandate me to attend that circus?

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Post by jobberpw Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:04 pm

Hi Tarquin,

How is it all going whp etc. I maybe heading that way soon also. If you have any medical problems etc make this abundantly clear to joke shop and whp as they will need to take your circumstances into account and may make things difficult for them to ping pong you about so easily.

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Post by Absolut Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:27 am

Tarquin Flotsam wrote:Also, in reference to this:
SBWA course when on Universal Credit. Op10

The key phrase is "once they agree to participate". This indicates that they need your consent prior to the rules which are then contained in the 4 "regimes".

Regarding the retail skills requirement I would point out that High Street and town centre shops are closing down at a rate that far exceeds new ones opening. The retail sector has shifted online, so online retail skills would be far more valuable than physically based ones. The ability to list products on Ebay and Amazon is a skill I can't imagine being covered in that Level 1 course. If you need stats regarding shop closures in the UK it's easy to find them via Google.
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Post by jobberpw Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:40 am

Hi Tarquin, sorry for the late reply, and note your points in particular "they need your consent prior to the rules which are then contained in the 4 "regimes."

Are you now on the WHP and if so how is that going,can you give us any feedback about what happens at the interviews etc?


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Post by Tarquin Flotsam Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:17 pm

jobberpw wrote:Are you now on the WHP and if so how is that going,can you give us any feedback about what happens at the interviews etc?
I managed to escape the clutches of the WHP, as you can see in this post: https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t3574p50-being-mandated-onto-whp#10839
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