Sanctions and conditionality - your help needed
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Non Deficere
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MrFrankZola
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Sanctions and conditionality - your help needed
Below are some questions on sanctions and conditionality
please let me know your thoughts, as thinking of creating
a blog post so your views and feedback much appreciated.
a. The current system sanctions people if they don’t provide
a record of looking for work for 35 hours a week [Universal Credit]
or for missing an interview or for failing to apply for a particular job.
Is this right?
b. Do you think that setting work-related or training conditions helps people get a job?
c. Does the answer to the above differ depending on the type of benefit (e.g. sickness or disability) or the type of claimant (e.g. single parents)?
Besides a. to c. are there any other questions on sanctions and conditionality you think need asking?
Thanks
Frank
please let me know your thoughts, as thinking of creating
a blog post so your views and feedback much appreciated.
a. The current system sanctions people if they don’t provide
a record of looking for work for 35 hours a week [Universal Credit]
or for missing an interview or for failing to apply for a particular job.
Is this right?
b. Do you think that setting work-related or training conditions helps people get a job?
c. Does the answer to the above differ depending on the type of benefit (e.g. sickness or disability) or the type of claimant (e.g. single parents)?
Besides a. to c. are there any other questions on sanctions and conditionality you think need asking?
Thanks
Frank
MrFrankZola- Posts : 175
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Join date : 2017-05-28
Re: Sanctions and conditionality - your help needed
Hello Frank
My understanding is that as long as claimants do 'all that is expected' then it is not relevant that they did not spend 35 hours per week doing it. I am always happy to be corrected if I get it wrong.
I am not sure if this is helpful or not:-
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/376/regulation/95
https://universalcreditinfo.net/myths/i-must-spend-35-hours-per-week-looking-for-work
My understanding is that as long as claimants do 'all that is expected' then it is not relevant that they did not spend 35 hours per week doing it. I am always happy to be corrected if I get it wrong.
I am not sure if this is helpful or not:-
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/376/regulation/95
https://universalcreditinfo.net/myths/i-must-spend-35-hours-per-week-looking-for-work
Caker- Posts : 1812
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Re: Sanctions and conditionality - your help needed
Frank wrote:a. The current system sanctions people if they don’t provide a record of looking for work for 35 hours a week [Universal Credit]
Yes and No
Frank wrote:or for missing an interview or for failing to apply for a particular job.
Is this right?
Yes and No
Frank wrote:b. Do you think that setting work-related or training conditions helps people get a job?
It depends if the support is relevant and helpful to the claimant.
Frank wrote:c. Does the answer to the above differ depending on the type of benefit (e.g. sickness or disability) or the type of claimant (e.g. single parents)?
Yes
Frank wrote:Besides a. to c. are there any other questions on sanctions and conditionality you think need asking?
Not yet!
Further information:
Time spent on work search which is less than the claimant’s expected hours of work
J3075 There will be times where a claimant has spent less time on work search than their expected hours of work. In such cases, where a claimant has taken all reasonable action to find paid work, then the work search requirement is satisfied1. What all reasonable action will be will depend on the claimant’s circumstances.
1 UC Regs, reg 95(1)(a)(ii)
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/720614/admj3.pdf
Examples of when work search/preparation must be reduced or suspended:
Caring responsibilities
Domestic emergency (see decision below)
Moving house
Temporary period of sickness
Funerals
Homelessness
Domestic violence
Vulnerable person
This case sums up the problems that can arise:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a27bd1940f0b659d452009f/CUC_1808_2017-00.pdf
Useful FOIs
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/301588/response/743734/attach/4/FOI%204794%20part%202.pdf
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/526836/response/1259747/attach/18/Vulnerable%20customers.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1
Failure to attend
https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t3410-fail-to-attend-good-reason
Good reason previously known as good cause can in most cases can be decided by the work coach without making a refral to the Decision Maker.
Applying for a job to add..
A sanction for faiing to apply for a mandated job is rare, the relevent information:
Failure to comply with a requirement to take up or apply for paid work
K3051 +
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/720661/admk3.pdf
I would not recommend agreeing to self employment opportunities in most cases.
Further information:
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/universal-credit/what-youll-need-to-do-on-universal-credit/getting-a-job-or-pay-increase-while-on-universal-credit/
Zero Hour Contracts
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2018-11-29.197460.h
Alok Sharma wrote:Zero-hours contracts offer flexibility which can be valuable for some individuals. Universal Credit payments adjust automatically depending on the amount a claimant earns, so that a claimant whose hours may change are financially supported and do not need to switch their benefit claim. Therefore, a Universal Credit claimant who is subject to all work related requirements can be expected to apply for a zero-hours contract job if it is considered suitable for their individual circumstances.
Where there is good reason why a Universal Credit claimant is unable to take a zero-hours contract job this is taken into account. Sanctions are only applied if no good reason is established. Additionally, sanctions are only applied for leaving a zero-hours contract job voluntarily if no good reason is found.
Sanctions are only used in a small percentage of cases, and that is when people fail to meet their agreed commitments without good reason. When considering whether a sanction is appropriate, a Decision Maker will take all the claimant’s individual circumstances, including any health conditions or disabilities and any evidence of good reason, into account before deciding whether a sanction is warranted.
Zero hour contracts DWP ADM 3271+
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/720661/admk3.pdf
Non Deficere- Posts : 724
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Re: Sanctions and conditionality - your help needed
Thanks for replies.
Full disclosure: the questions are an amendment of the ones posed in Labour’s National Policy Forum (NPF) on:
'Rebuilding a just social security system '
https://policyforum.labour.org.uk/commissions/work/rebuilding-a-just-social-security-system?active_tab=amendments
I need to think of a way for the questions to be answered more anonymously, say via an online form. As forum replies could disclose forum members personal details.
Seems odd that there are no submissions posted on the web page.
I am trying to work out my own views on the policy document before wider comment.
I am struggling to understand what Labour's policy is on sanctions, beyond them saying the 'conservative party sanction regime is punitive & would be scrapped by a Labour Gov [1], implying another regime or sanctions can be non-punitive.
One interpretation is that Labour explicitly, in this policy doc, considers sanctions applied to people on health or disability benefits, or groups like single parents are without question punitive, per:
"c. Does the answer to the above differ depending on the type of benefit (e.g. sickness or disability) or the type of claimant (e.g. single parents)?"
[1] Labour's 2017 manifesto
Full disclosure: the questions are an amendment of the ones posed in Labour’s National Policy Forum (NPF) on:
'Rebuilding a just social security system '
https://policyforum.labour.org.uk/commissions/work/rebuilding-a-just-social-security-system?active_tab=amendments
I need to think of a way for the questions to be answered more anonymously, say via an online form. As forum replies could disclose forum members personal details.
Seems odd that there are no submissions posted on the web page.
I am trying to work out my own views on the policy document before wider comment.
I am struggling to understand what Labour's policy is on sanctions, beyond them saying the 'conservative party sanction regime is punitive & would be scrapped by a Labour Gov [1], implying another regime or sanctions can be non-punitive.
One interpretation is that Labour explicitly, in this policy doc, considers sanctions applied to people on health or disability benefits, or groups like single parents are without question punitive, per:
"c. Does the answer to the above differ depending on the type of benefit (e.g. sickness or disability) or the type of claimant (e.g. single parents)?"
[1] Labour's 2017 manifesto
MrFrankZola- Posts : 175
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Join date : 2017-05-28
Re: Sanctions and conditionality - your help needed
a. The current system sanctions people if they don’t provide a record of looking for work for 35 hours a week [Universal Credit]
or for missing an interview or for failing to apply for a particular job.
Is this right?
im not in the new system
but my take on it no person can be expected to search for 35hrs a week there just isnt the jobs in there field of choices unless you remove your choices
even if you was to take up a walk around companys you could cover most of them in your area in one week so whats left after that
so lets say 4 weeks youve covered all your areas within your 2hr travel time
b. Do you think that setting work-related or training conditions helps people get a job?
work related is a myth same with the training coarses its nothing to do with there chosen field of job
to be honest its more like being back at school to do it this way when you was taught to do it that way years ago
c. Does the answer to the above differ depending on the type of benefit (e.g. sickness or disability) or the type of claimant (e.g. single parents)?
id say it differs between the benefits
Besides a. to c. are there any other questions on sanctions and conditionality you think need asking?
cvs why does a person have to change a cv to suit the adviser on different coarses out there weve all read many have been tweaked to lie even some stuff has been a lie all to suit there aproach on there input of a cv
been sent back to a training coarse to do english and maths that i passed years ago all to suit a job advisers whim to get you off there books
those documents are babyish just to get a tick to say you attended the coarse
yeah some might need them but i would suggest them coarses infact the paperwork you get you might as well wipe your backside with it
many occupations have been deregulated due to some idiots pen pushing
a 40 year old joiner for one passed his quals years ago these quals are recognised world wide done through college
do yo know that these quals are no longer recognised in the uk and the person needs to retrain to get these quals back in a differnet format no longer recognised worldwide
only in the uk backwards compatable
or for missing an interview or for failing to apply for a particular job.
Is this right?
im not in the new system
but my take on it no person can be expected to search for 35hrs a week there just isnt the jobs in there field of choices unless you remove your choices
even if you was to take up a walk around companys you could cover most of them in your area in one week so whats left after that
so lets say 4 weeks youve covered all your areas within your 2hr travel time
b. Do you think that setting work-related or training conditions helps people get a job?
work related is a myth same with the training coarses its nothing to do with there chosen field of job
to be honest its more like being back at school to do it this way when you was taught to do it that way years ago
c. Does the answer to the above differ depending on the type of benefit (e.g. sickness or disability) or the type of claimant (e.g. single parents)?
id say it differs between the benefits
Besides a. to c. are there any other questions on sanctions and conditionality you think need asking?
cvs why does a person have to change a cv to suit the adviser on different coarses out there weve all read many have been tweaked to lie even some stuff has been a lie all to suit there aproach on there input of a cv
been sent back to a training coarse to do english and maths that i passed years ago all to suit a job advisers whim to get you off there books
those documents are babyish just to get a tick to say you attended the coarse
yeah some might need them but i would suggest them coarses infact the paperwork you get you might as well wipe your backside with it
many occupations have been deregulated due to some idiots pen pushing
a 40 year old joiner for one passed his quals years ago these quals are recognised world wide done through college
do yo know that these quals are no longer recognised in the uk and the person needs to retrain to get these quals back in a differnet format no longer recognised worldwide
only in the uk backwards compatable
Re: Sanctions and conditionality - your help needed
A useful tool which could be expanded upon:
https://suwn.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/law-on-social-security-for-dwp-workers.pdf
Further info here: :-))
https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t3456-scottish-unemployed-workers-network
https://suwn.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/law-on-social-security-for-dwp-workers.pdf
Further info here: :-))
https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t3456-scottish-unemployed-workers-network
Welfare-Champion- Posts : 412
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Re: Sanctions and conditionality - your help needed
My roach told me that if I complete my CC tasks in fewer than 35 hours I am to find more tasks to make up the 35 hours. not a chance.
I will not be sending out spec letters or making uninvited visits to businesses either. Employers hate that.
Apparently I am to look at 'company' websites to find vacancies. Not sure which companies though, or even what vacancies, since I have been rejected for all jobs I applied for outside my sector. Apparently there are jobs for which no qualifications are needed and can be done by a 16 year old (who knew?! ). I am specifically meant to seek out these out, apparently
I will not be sending out spec letters or making uninvited visits to businesses either. Employers hate that.
Apparently I am to look at 'company' websites to find vacancies. Not sure which companies though, or even what vacancies, since I have been rejected for all jobs I applied for outside my sector. Apparently there are jobs for which no qualifications are needed and can be done by a 16 year old (who knew?! ). I am specifically meant to seek out these out, apparently
Caker- Posts : 1812
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Re: Sanctions and conditionality - your help needed
MrFrankZola wrote:I am struggling to understand what Labour's policy is on sanctions, beyond them saying the 'conservative party sanction regime is punitive & would be scrapped by a Labour Gov [1], ...
Would that be the same Labour party that instigated the sanctions regime in the first place? Pffft!
ABC- Posts : 228
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Re: Sanctions and conditionality - your help needed
When did the Labour Party instigate the sanctions regime? It's not the first time I've heard that, but I thought it was the Jobseekers Act of 1995 that established it.
Gallazz- Posts : 167
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Re: Sanctions and conditionality - your help needed
Gallazz wrote:When did the Labour Party instigate the sanctions regime? It's not the first time I've heard that, but I thought it was the Jobseekers Act of 1995 that established it.
Submission on Sanctions to the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Extreme Poverty and Human Rights
"The submission is concerned with the system of punitive benefit sanctions which has been built up in the UK social security system since 1986
23. Over the last three decades the UK social security system has become more and more punitive in its approach..."
www.ohchr.org/Documents/Issues/EPoverty/UnitedKingdom/2018/Academics/DrDavidWebster_UniversityofGlasgow.pdf
The great benefit sanctions drive 2010-16 in historical perspective
Why did the three major conditionality drives (later 1920s, 1980s/90s, 2010s) occur when they did?
Duration of sanctions
Entitlement conditions:
• Until conditions met (1913-2010)
• Additional penalty (2010/2012)
Other conditions:
• 6 weeks (1913-1920)
• Variable, maximum of 6 weeks (1920-1986)
• Variable, maximum of 13 weeks (1986-1988)
• Variable, maximum of 26 weeks (1988)
• Fixed sanctions 2 or 4 weeks, variable max. 26 weeks
retained (1996)
• April 2010 shift from disentitlement to sanction for
interviews
• All sanctions fixed length; increase to most durations with
maximum of 156 weeks (2012)
• ESA introduced ‘until compliance’
http://www.welfareconditionality.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Webster-D.-Session-2-Stream-B-Wed-27-Jun-2018.pdf
Via http://www.welfareconditionality.ac.uk/2018/07/international-conference-presentations/#more-1984
Westminister administrations
1979 to 1996: Conservative
1997 to 2010: Labour
2010 to date: Conservatives
(Conservative and Liberal Democrat coalition 2010-2015)
MrFrankZola- Posts : 175
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