Prohibition for zero wage workfare for more than 4 weeks?

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Prohibition for zero wage workfare for more than 4 weeks?

Post by Caker on Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:36 am

https://mrfrankzola.wordpress.com/2017/06/28/prohibition-for-zero-wage-workfare-internships-and-work-experience-of-more-than-4-weeks/

Conservative Lord Holmes of Richmond has introduced a Private Members’ Bill (Starting in the House of Lords) to prohibit zero wage work experience (WE) for a continuous or non-continuous period which exceeds four weeks.
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Re: Prohibition for zero wage workfare for more than 4 weeks?

Post by El-dudeareno on Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:14 pm

"On the pedantic front the term “work placement“, which is missing from the Bill, tends to be used by the DWP to refer compulsory forced-labour zero wage “work for your benefit” “community benefit” work placements (workfare). Such as with the current Youth Obligation, Work Programme and Work and Health Programme schemes.

So therefore, the Bill’s failure to use the term “work placement” as part of it’s definition of work experience, means forced-labour workfare conscription remains untouched, including “unpaid and unlimited” for sick and disabled people?
"

https://mrfrankzola.wordpress.com/2017/06/28/prohibition-for-zero-wage-workfare-internships-and-work-experience-of-more-than-4-weeks/


I wonder if they will add "work-placements" to the bill, or will they just be for 4x weeks and then get another dogsbody claimant to fill the role cyclops
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Re: Prohibition for zero wage workfare for more than 4 weeks?

Post by Caker on Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:59 pm

It looks like free labour will not be affected per se. Just free labour that benefits profit making organisations. The proposals are flawed because of the loop-hole you found El Dude. pirat
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Re: Prohibition for zero wage workfare for more than 4 weeks?

Post by Mary_FV on Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:14 pm

No provision shall be made under subsection (2)(a) in respect of
persons participating in a scheme designed to provide work experience

for a continuous or non-continuous period which exceeds four weeks.”

Work experience and work placements have different meanings within the context of mandatory schemes/programmes at this time.

Some people are participating in unpaid voluntary 'work experience' for up to 8 weeks that I am aware of.

Currently, mandatory JSA/ESA/UC recipients cannot be mandated to take up work or unpaid work experience within a scheme/programme. Further, JSA claimants cannot by mandated via a Jobseeker's Direction.  

Work experience - UC
K5060 In UC legislation there is no definition of work experience. Participation in a work
experience opportunity is on a purely voluntary basis and a low–level sanction
cannot be imposed where the claimant fails to comply with a work experience
opportunity either
1. by way of a work preparation requirement or
2. as part of participation in a mandatory employment scheme such as the Work
Programme or sector-based work academies (see K5034 et seq for guidance
on mandatory employment schemes).

Note: This includes behaviours whilst on the work experience placement. Whilst it is
expected a claimant will behave reasonably whilst on a placement if they are
dismissed for misconduct or behaviours UC benefit will not be affected.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/618972/admk5.pdf

Work experience on a voluntary basis referral - work programme
1. You can decide, as appropriate, to arrange work experience on a voluntary
basis for Work Programme participants both Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA)
and Employment and Support Allowance (ESA).
2. Work experience on a voluntary basis does not incur potential sanction
action if they fail to take part.

3. However, you can decide to mandate JSA participants to maintain basic
standards of good behaviour whilst with the host employer. It has been
agreed that it is only if the participant loses their work experience on a
voluntary basis due to his/her gross misconduct that a sanction may be
imposed. Further information can be found in paragraph 26.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/569261/work-programme-provider-guidance-chapter-3c.pdf
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/work-programme-universal-credit-provider-guidance

This might change with the introduction of the W&HP.

JSA and UC recipients can be mandated to a community work placement.

The general meaning of work experience has changed.  I did 3 weeks work experience when I was a school, most of the time was spent job shadowing, listening and drinking tea!

A work placement in my mind should be linked to an occupation and include relevant training/qualifications (teaching, medicine etc.).  It should be paid in my opinion.

Work experience
Traditionally was associated with a short period of time within a company, such as one to two weeks to gain exposure to an organisation. It might include an element of work shadowing staff to observe what they do in order to understand a role better as well as getting involved in relatively low level tasks to help support the business in a very practical way.  Recently the term “work experience” has become an all embracing title for any form of participation in a working environment, and could include volunteering work with a registered charity which may not be paid but would still be counted as work experience.

Placements
The word “placement” varies in meaning but at UCL, placements are thought of as an assessed, integral part of an academic programme and the tasks undertaken will most likely relate to your programme of study. However, many courses at UCL do not have this element within them.  If they do, they will usually range from three months to a year, depending on the requirements of your course. The level of work in a placement is usually similar in scope to an internship or graduate role. Placements are likely to be structured and may involve an element of training. Often you would be assisted by course staff in your search for a placement.

https://blogs.ucl.ac.uk/ucl-careers/2015/09/10/is-there-a-difference-between-work-experience-an-internship-and-a-placement/

Work experience
If you’re 16 to 24 and you’re getting Jobseeker’s Allowance, you can get a work experience opportunity through Jobcentre Plus.
They can last between 2 and 8 weeks, and you’ll normally be expected to work between 25 and 30 hours a week.
You may also be able to get help from Jobcentre Plus for costs related to work experience, eg for travel or childcare.

https://www.gov.uk/moving-from-benefits-to-work/work-experience-and-volunteering

In summary, this Bill is not very beneficial at this time.


Last edited by Mary_FV on Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:00 pm; edited 5 times in total (Reason for editing : Add info)
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Re: Prohibition for zero wage workfare for more than 4 weeks?

Post by Caker on Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:08 pm

In education (healthcare) placements / clinical attachments are compulsory elements of the course and are not paid. They usually take place in term time only.

They involve observation and shadowing as well as supervised practice of basic tasks that have already been learned in the classroom.

The university usually sources the placement from a pool of local providers through which students rotate during their degree. Students tend to all be on placement at the same time and then in uni' between placements.

At the end of each placement / attachment, the clinical supervisor completes a standard report (form) documenting the students progress and any areas for further development.

I believe there is a similar arrangement for trainee teachers.


Last edited by Caker on Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:13 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
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Re: Prohibition for zero wage workfare for more than 4 weeks?

Post by Mary_FV on Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:58 pm

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Re: Prohibition for zero wage workfare for more than 4 weeks?

Post by Caker on Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:34 am

My understanding is that (until very recently - within the last 8 years) student nurses received a slightly larger bursary than other healthcare students (such as occupational therapy, physiotherapy, speech and language therapy etc) to reflect their longer placements, which tended to extend into summer (other students usually have a 3 month break in which they can do casual work if they wish).

Bursaries have now been withdrawn for healthcare students https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-bursary-reform/nhs-bursary-reform

Medical / dental students did not get bursaries before the reforms, so they are not affected.

Neutral



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Re: Prohibition for zero wage workfare for more than 4 weeks?

Post by El-dudeareno on Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:10 pm

[quote="Mary_FV"]


This might change with the introduction of the W&HP.

JSA and UC recipients can be mandated to a community work placement.


Just one thing does anyone know what is the DWP definition of the 'community work placement/program' is. And how long the placement could last for (' work experience' for up to 8 weeks)
and the type of roles a person could end up on? 🐒.

This just in case someone is able to challenge being sent these cheap-labour placements. Suspect


Also "DWP's own assessment of mandatory work activity programme finds it has 'no impact on the likelihood of being employed'

http://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t367-reasons-for-not-accepting-vol-work?watch=topic

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/jun/13/mandatory-work-scheme-government-research


Last edited by El-dudeareno on Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:21 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : extra)
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Re: Prohibition for zero wage workfare for more than 4 weeks?

Post by Mary_FV on Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:50 pm

Hi El-Dude,

'Work related activities': in particular, 'work experience' and 'work placements' for Universal Credit recipients are unknown territory, because there are no mandatory schemes or programmes within UC legislation!

Current guidance describes 'work as experience' to be voluntary at this time!


Last edited by Mary_FV on Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:57 pm; edited 11 times in total
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Re: Prohibition for zero wage workfare for more than 4 weeks?

Post by El-dudeareno on Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:53 pm

Also I was wondering how all of this 'work placements etc' , fit in with the 35x hrs job search a week??? Crying or Very sad
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Re: Prohibition for zero wage workfare for more than 4 weeks?

Post by Mary_FV on Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:58 pm

El-dudeareno wrote:Also I was wondering how all of this 'work placements etc' , fit in with the 35x hrs job search a week??? Crying or Very sad

The work search requirement will be reduced in line with the hours spent on unpaid work.

Voluntary work time is only reduced by 50%!

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Re: Prohibition for zero wage workfare for more than 4 weeks?

Post by Caker on Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:25 pm

.....So on that note, it appears that if you do voluntary work of 10 hours per week then you will be expected to job-search for 30 hours per week (total activity time of 40 hours per week).

If you do mandatory work of 30 hours per week you will be expected to job-search for 5 hours per week (total activity time of 35 hours per week).

On the balance of probabilities, the quantity of job-search time is negatively impacted by mandatory work, even before you consider the quality of the mandatory work impacting upon prospects  geek

Conversely, voluntary work allows more time for quality job-search and is likely to be in a sector of interest, which may enhance prospects.

Unless I have misunderstood scratch
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Re: Prohibition for zero wage workfare for more than 4 weeks?

Post by El-dudeareno on Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:30 pm

Could you also add travelling time, to and from the placement to your place of job search?  scratch

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34217549
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