JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

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JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

Post by hasteyninja on Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:19 pm

Today I had my fortnightly meeting with my work coach. He has been trying his hardest since around week 3 to sanction me, intimidate, and borderline bully. He is honestly making me ill.

Never shows any interest in actually offering me vacancies or whats available, just straight to pure scrutiny about my job search and has sanctioned me once already for not doing enough in 1 particular week, though from what I read I actually had a case to challenge the decision but didn't know any better at the time, alas, here I am. The first sanction was a few months ago and have since cut my losses there, however his incessant interrogation has come to head today where he photocopied my job search evidence and said he'll be sending it off to a decision maker. My job search consists of a journal dated with what i applied for, where i applied, job site used, any ref numbers included etc. and a list of screenshotted emails to back it up, i apply average 5-7 jobs a week. This isn't good enough for him. Since forever he's been trying to push me to show more, but never specifically can tell me with a straight answer what he's looking for, except that he wants some kind of application tracker, application contents, CV data sent per application etc. to the point where he proposed a CC variation just 2 weeks ago to request that kind of information about my applications which I refused in the name of data protection, fought with a statement and won the outcome of.

Off the back of this is today, 2 weeks later, where he has taken my job search evidence to send off to a DM since he says it's not adequate, but I am giving him emails of submitted application confirmations and a journal with ref numbers, when I tell him this it goes in one ear and out the other.

I asked if it was a sanction and how it will affect benefits, he says my benefit will be suspended until a decision is made, I pleaded with him to no avail, the man is cold as ice. I can't afford this - I am at my wits end, I should NOT be sanctioned, as far as i'm aware I provide adequate evidence as listed above but maybe I'm wrong? I feel like he is out for blood since I overcame his CC variation porposal 2 weeks ago, I feel like an agenda is being played here and I will end up on UC. The reason I think that is since when I asked if I'll be sanctioned he told me if the decision goes against me, my benefit will be suspended and I'll be steered towards UC. I don't really understand this but judging by the latest post here, there seems to be a game JC staff are playing to thrust JSA claimants onto UC by doing this, I suspect if his DM pal puts the decision against me, then I expect my claim to be immediately closed and told to sign up for UC like the other guy I read about on this forum.

I've asked to speak with his work coach team leader since I'm desperate to avoid this whole thing and receive my benefit and I've been wanting to submit a complaint about him in general for a while, but she has been busy to this point. Citezen's Advice is all booked up and I'm at a loss of what to do here, someone kindly pointed me towards this forum so I'm hoping for anything to help me through this.

Anyone got any advice out there?

I'm new here btw.


Last edited by hasteyninja on Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:07 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Privacy/Accuracy)

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Re: JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

Post by Admin on Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:25 pm

welcome to the site hastyninja

the game is kinda deadly nowadays theres no such word as a fair jobcenter appointment its all guns looking for a sanction or with some force you off the benefit onto a uc format where you will adhere to it

you can appeal against the sanction though

http://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t2214-sample-letter-to-appeal-against-sanctioning-of-benefit

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Re: JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

Post by hasteyninja on Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:57 pm

Thanks, I'm glad such a community exists.

What are the chances that the decision maker rules in my favour? I'm guessing slim.

Despite the fact that his claimant commitment variation was rejected, he has gone on to use my job search evidence as grounds to sanction me anyway.

Would i use this template as part of a written mandatory reconsideration? Forgive me but I'm not clued up at all.

Thanks for your help.

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Re: JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

Post by hasteyninja on Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:15 pm

Ok, I've just had a call, the decision was put in my favour! Apparently! That was quick!


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Re: JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

Post by hasteyninja on Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:17 pm

Can i request this thread to be deleted by the mods? I'll be sure to stick around the site and contribute anything i can in future.

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Re: JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

Post by Admin on Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:20 pm

just becareful now

someones out for blood to get this to happen

make yourself aware of what can anc cant be done even having a folder of info to fight them with is getting to be a prioraty

you are spot on an application tracker cant be used

just to point out here journals dont have to be used even though they choose to want that episode

however if your claim closes you cant gain access back to it

referenced here

http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/closing-universal-credit-claims
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Re: JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

Post by Admin on Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:22 pm

hasteyninja wrote:Can i request this thread to be deleted by the mods? I'll be sure to stick around the site and contribute anything i can in future.

would you mind if we left it up as a discussion point of view and where it can aid others just incase they fall into same situation

if it wasnt for sites like this one this site wouldnt exist with the info on it to help others out

many on here have had sanctions and provided info on a site including this admin
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Re: JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

Post by hasteyninja on Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:25 pm

Yeah no worries at all. Leave it up

I'm a bit taken aback by the quick decision, part of me questions whether he even went through with it, or if i threw a spanner into the works by insisting on speaking with the manager (doubt it though).

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Re: JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

Post by Non Deficere on Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:40 pm

hasteyninja wrote:Today I had my fortnightly meeting with my work coach. He has been trying his hardest since around week 3 to sanction me, intimidate, and borderline bully. He is honestly making me ill.

Never shows any interest in actually offering me vacancies or whats available, just straight to pure scrutiny about my job search and has sanctioned me once already for not doing enough in 1 particular week, though from what I read I actually had a case to challenge the decision but didn't know any better at the time, alas, here I am. The first sanction was a few months ago and have since cut my losses there, however his incessant interrogation has come to head today where he photocopied my job search evidence and said he'll be sending it off to a decision maker. My job search consists of a journal dated with what i applied for, where i applied, job site used, any ref numbers included etc. and a list of screenshotted emails to back it up, i apply average 5-7 jobs a week. This isn't good enough for him, and he insists it's just "a list of jobs" Since forever he's been trying to push me to show more, but never specifically can tell me with a straight answer what he's looking for, except that he wants some kind of application tracker, application contents, CV data sent per application etc. to the point where he proposed a CC variation just 2 weeks ago to request that kind of information about my applications which I refused in the name of data protection, fought with a statement and won the outcome of.

Off the back of this is today, 2 weeks later, where he has taken my job search evidence to send off to a DM since he says it's not adequate and again "just a list of jobs", but I am giving him emails of submitted application confirmations and a journal with ref numbers, when I tell him this it goes in one ear and out the other.

I asked if it was a sanction and how it will affect benefits, he says my benefit will be suspended until a decision is made, I pleaded with him to no avail, the man is cold as ice. I can't afford this - I am at my wits end, I should NOT be sanctioned, as far as i'm aware I provide adequate evidence as listed above but maybe I'm wrong? I feel like he is out for blood since I overcame his CC variation porposal 2 weeks ago, I feel like an agenda is being played here and I will end up on UC. The reason I think that is since when I asked if I'll be sanctioned he told me if the decision goes against me, my benefit will be suspended and I'll be steered towards UC. I don't really understand this but judging by the latest post here, there seems to be a game JC staff are playing to thrust JSA claimants onto UC by doing this, I suspect if his DM pal puts the decision against me, then I expect my claim to be immediately closed and told to sign up for UC like the other guy on this forum.

I've asked to speak with his work coach team leader since I'm desperate to avoid this whole thing and receive my benefit and I've been wanting to submit a complaint about him in general for a while, but she has been busy to this point. Citezen's Advice is all booked up and I'm at a loss of what to do here, someone kindly pointed me towards this forum so I'm hoping for anything to help me through this.

Anyone got any advice out there?

I'm new here btw.

Welcome hj

I have already typed a reply, but it has disappeared.  

I had more information to add.  Sad

Very pleased to read your benefit has not been stopped. Very Happy


Last edited by Non Deficere on Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

Post by hasteyninja on Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:43 pm

Thanks bud,

As am I, huge relief!

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Re: JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

Post by Non Deficere on Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:57 am

For those who find themselves in a similar situation, I would suggest the following action:

Follow the steps here (this is one of my favourite organisations):

http://edinburghagainstpoverty.org.uk/?page_id=52

It is most important when your benefit is suspended immediately.

Request your personal information via a Subject Access Request (SAR), which is free.
You don’t have to use the DWP online service, you can simply write a letter to request the information you need.

Online request:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/request-your-personal-information-from-the-department-for-work-and-pensions

Example letter can be found here:
https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/your-right-of-access/

In Oneman’s case the SAR provided proof that the JCP official was dishonest.
http://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t3250-jsa-sanction-information-2-updates

I think a Judicial Review is required, because of the unjust procedure currently in place.

Important Edits:

You have 5 days to make representation after your benefit is suspended in actively seeking employment/availability doubts as well as failed to attend case.

Following on from my advice above.  In the event that your benefit is stopped, you won't be transferred to UC if you can hold out for a decision.  If it is favourable you can stay on JSA.

If anyone is wondering why nj was not transferred to UC in October last year.  If an ASE disallowance is applied to the first week only the JSA regulations allows the claim to continue without the need for a new claim.

The last 2 recent cases I have assisted with have both been due to maladministration (that is the mild term!).

Non Deficere


Last edited by Non Deficere on Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:51 am; edited 4 times in total
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Re: JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

Post by Pintel on Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:47 am

Welcome to the forum @hasteyninja.  Smile

One point thouI thought the Work-Roaches weren't allowed to copy any job search? Suspect So could you ask for this material to be destroyed/deleted by the JCP?

"where he photocopied my job search evidence and said he'll be sending it off to a decision maker".
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Re: JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

Post by hasteyninja on Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:37 pm

Non Deficere wrote:For those who find themselves in a similar situation, I would suggest the following action:

Follow the steps here (this is one of my favourite organisations):

http://edinburghagainstpoverty.org.uk/?page_id=52

It is most important when your benefit is suspended immediately.

Request your personal information via a Subject Access Request (SAR), which is free.
You don’t have to use the DWP online service, you can simply write a letter to request the information you need.

Online request:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/request-your-personal-information-from-the-department-for-work-and-pensions

Example letter can be found here:
https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/your-right-of-access/

In Oneman’s case the SAR provided proof that the JCP official was dishonest.
http://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t3250-jsa-sanction-information-2-updates

I think a Judicial Review is required, because of the unjust procedure currently in place.


This is great, N-D!

Thanks, Pintel. I'm not sure.

Just a little update, I received a text today which has left me a little baffled now from the DWP, nothing is ever straight-forward with them!

"We've changed your JSA because of a sanction. Your Jobseeker's Allowance has been disallowed from 9/1/19-22/1/19 because you were not actively seeking employment. Your payment has not changed and will continue to be paid into your account."

What? So am I sanctioned or not? I'm about to phone them for clarification but thought someone might be able to decipher this contradictory nonsense here first. Very confused.

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Re: JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

Post by Non Deficere on Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:27 pm

hasteyninja wrote:
Non Deficere wrote:For those who find themselves in a similar situation, I would suggest the following action:

Follow the steps here (this is one of my favourite organisations):

http://edinburghagainstpoverty.org.uk/?page_id=52

It is most important when your benefit is suspended immediately.

Request your personal information via a Subject Access Request (SAR), which is free.
You don’t have to use the DWP online service, you can simply write a letter to request the information you need.

Online request:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/request-your-personal-information-from-the-department-for-work-and-pensions

Example letter can be found here:
https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/your-right-of-access/

In Oneman’s case the SAR provided proof that the JCP official was dishonest.
http://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t3250-jsa-sanction-information-2-updates

I think a Judicial Review is required, because of the unjust procedure currently in place.


This is great, N-D!

Thanks, Pintel. I'm not sure.

Just a little update, I received a text today which has left me a little baffled now from the DWP, nothing is ever straight-forward with them!

"We've changed your JSA because of a sanction. Your Jobseeker's Allowance has been disallowed from 9/1/19-22/1/19 because you were not actively seeking employment. Your payment has not changed and will continue to be paid into your account."

What? So am I sanctioned or not? I'm about to phone them for clarification but thought someone might be able to decipher this contradictory nonsense here first. Very confused.

I am assuming the wrong button has been pressed.

Is no news, good news hn?
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Re: JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

Post by hasteyninja on Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:23 pm

Not exactly.

I phoned the dwp and spoke to a nice woman who went through what I said above about the confusing text, she was as confused as I was when looking at things her end. She confirmed that the sanction was overruled and decided in my favour, but she said for whatever reason there still remained a suspension on my claim or something... So she put me on hold and tried to find out more. When she returned she said I should expect my payment since everything seems to point to that the sanction was unjust and that I (The customer) showed good reason and steps for finding work during the sanction period in question as presented by my "work coach". She confirmed that he (the work coach) contacted me to let me know of the decision and that my claim wouldn't be affected, all true.

She said that either the sanction status that remains may just take a few days to be removed from the system or that someone at the actual benefit office which I forget where she mentioned is based, has left the suspension status to my claim up either via a miscommunication or for a reason she doesn't know. She said she put a note on the system and to expect a call from someone at that office to go over what's going on and for further clarification. I was told I would get a call before 5pm.

Well I didn't receive any call so I have absolutely no idea what's going on. I will phone back tomorrow I guess and go through the motions once again, I'm honestly dumb-founded and don't know whether they're up to something or if they're really just that poorly organised. The text alone set off alarm bells, the wording is incredibly lacking in clarity and the two paragraphs directly contradict each other. I still have a sneaky suspicion I'm going to somehow by lumped into UC, but maybe I'm speculating too much at this point.

I'll update tomorrow,

Cheers.


Last edited by hasteyninja on Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:34 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Extra clarity)

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Re: JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

Post by Admin on Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:27 pm

Pintel wrote:Welcome to the forum @hasteyninja.  Smile

One point thouI thought the Work-Roaches weren't allowed to copy any job search? Suspect So could you ask for this material to be destroyed/deleted by the JCP?

"where he photocopied my job search evidence and said he'll be sending it off to a decision maker".

im glad you brought that back up id forgotten about that one

admins favorate had loads of trouble with that one

comes under 2 points though

read this one very carefully comes from the old site but was true then as its is now

http://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t202-letter-about-refusal-to-process-payment-unless-they-could-take-a-copy-of-my-job-search


http://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t10-corroboration-of-job-search-evidence

I do hope you like the place so far Very Happy

your more than welcome to pass us on to other people that may need help in there situation the more the merrier
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Re: JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

Post by Non Deficere on Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:33 am

Pintel wrote:Welcome to the forum @hasteyninja.  Smile

One point thouI thought the Work-Roaches weren't allowed to copy any job search? Suspect So could you ask for this material to be destroyed/deleted by the JCP?

"where he photocopied my job search evidence and said he'll be sending it off to a decision maker".

If a doubt is raised the claimant must show their ASE evidence, ideally in writing for the DM/Tribunal. A person can provide oral evidence recorded by the JCP official, but you are relying on the information being recorded fully and accurately on the DART form.
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Re: JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

Post by Non Deficere on Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:38 am

hasteyninja wrote:Not exactly.

I phoned the dwp and spoke to a nice woman who went through what I said above about the confusing text, she was as confused as I was when looking at things her end. She confirmed that the sanction was overruled and decided in my favour, but she said for whatever reason there still remained a suspension on my claim or something... So she put me on hold and tried to find out more. When she returned she said I should expect my payment since everything seems to point to that the sanction was unjust and that I (The customer) showed good reason and steps for finding work during the sanction period in question as presented by my "work coach". She confirmed that he (the work coach) contacted me to let me know of the decision and that my claim wouldn't be affected, all true.

She said that either the sanction status that remains may just take a few days to be removed from the system or that someone at the actual benefit office which I forget where she mentioned is based, has left the suspension status to my claim up either via a miscommunication or for a reason she doesn't know. She said she put a note on the system and to expect a call from someone at that office to go over what's going on and for further clarification. I was told I would get a call before 5pm.

Well I didn't receive any call so I have absolutely no idea what's going on. I will phone back tomorrow I guess and go through the motions once again, I'm honestly dumb-founded and don't know whether they're up to something or if they're really just that poorly organised. The text alone set off alarm bells, the wording is incredibly lacking in clarity and the two paragraphs directly contradict each other. I still have a sneaky suspicion I'm going to somehow by lumped into UC, but maybe I'm speculating too much at this point.

I'll update tomorrow,

Cheers.

Thanks

I hope they don't try to use the mistake excuse to try and transfer you to UC.  I can assist if this happens.
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Re: JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

Post by hasteyninja on Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:03 am

Received a call this morning from a lady at the benefit office saying she was asked to call me. She said the sanction has now been lifted and a payment has been issued as normal. I asked her to confirm that my claim is no longer suspended and she simply said "yes, sorry about that".

So I guess things are resolved for now.

Thanks all of you for the support, and hopefully this thread can help anyone who finds themselves in a similar spot.

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Re: JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

Post by Non Deficere on Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:10 am

hasteyninja wrote:Received a call this morning from a lady at the benefit office saying she was asked to call me. She said the sanction has now been lifted and a payment has been issued as normal. I asked her to confirm that my claim is no longer suspended and she simply said "yes, sorry about that".

So I guess things are resolved for now.

Thanks all of you for the support, and hopefully this thread can help anyone who finds themselves in a similar spot.

sunny Great news!

Thanks for sharing your story.

You may wish to make a complaint if you discover maladministration within your SAR.
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Re: JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

Post by hasteyninja on Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:04 am

Non Deficere wrote:
hasteyninja wrote:Received a call this morning from a lady at the benefit office saying she was asked to call me. She said the sanction has now been lifted and a payment has been issued as normal. I asked her to confirm that my claim is no longer suspended and she simply said "yes, sorry about that".

So I guess things are resolved for now.

Thanks all of you for the support, and hopefully this thread can help anyone who finds themselves in a similar spot.

sunny  Great news!

Thanks for sharing your story.

You may wish to make a complaint if you discover maladministration within your SAR.



I might look into this in future, I'm sure my WC will be continuing to give me grief, that's two attempts in a row now back to back.

Thanks.

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Re: JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

Post by Non Deficere on Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:25 pm

hasteyninja wrote:
Non Deficere wrote:
hasteyninja wrote:Received a call this morning from a lady at the benefit office saying she was asked to call me. She said the sanction has now been lifted and a payment has been issued as normal. I asked her to confirm that my claim is no longer suspended and she simply said "yes, sorry about that".

So I guess things are resolved for now.

Thanks all of you for the support, and hopefully this thread can help anyone who finds themselves in a similar spot.

sunny  Great news!

Thanks for sharing your story.

You may wish to make a complaint if you discover maladministration within your SAR.



I might look into this in future, I'm sure my WC will be continuing to give me grief, that's two attempts in a row now back to back.

Thanks.

Just a thought!

You might be helping yourself and several other people by making a complaint.  If you are being treated badly by a particular work coach, it is inevitable that several others are receiving the same poor treatment.   Evil or Very Mad

I choose to share my knowledge and experience for free, despite my circumstances with the hope that several thousands of people may be helped.

All the best whatever you decide to do. I am here to help if I can.  Your case is very interesting!



Last edited by Non Deficere on Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

Post by hasteyninja on Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:15 pm

Your knowledge and experience is hugely appreciated. For the average person like me though, I don't know the first thing about a SAR request or the implications that might go with it; how best to use it as a complaint procedure or whether I'd be pushing buttons to get me into more bother than I bargained for with the JCP staff - finding myself in hot water without the know-how to back it up.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm treading carefully unless pushed because I don't feel experienced enough with this stuff to deal with it with my full integrity, that's why I found solace here, it's people like you that instil significant confidence about my position or others out there in a similar boat, and while I didn't have to use anything you provided (for now) just knowing that advice is there is huge. I'd love to be of help to others, I'm just waiting to see what his next move is before I decide anything, I just want to protect my ability to eat first and foremost.

As I said in the first post, I was trying to complain to my WC's manager after the latest debacle post-meeting but she wasn't around, i asked for her details, phone no. and name, on the phone I got her email address, turns out it was the wrong one and there was another dwp employee with the same name half way across the country Shocked. To her credit she was trying to help me find the right person but after news of the sanction removal I decided to halt the complaint for now - I wouldn't know where to start with the legislative facts, I just really wanted to give her a piece of my mind about the guy and the way he's been treating my case.

Will he back off a bit? Probably not, you'd think he would when his superiors at the DWP are telling him my job search evidence is fine, but I'll continue just now as is and see what next fortnight has in store for me, I will use that time to read up on all of your links to try to better understand the procedures and my rights, as well as job-seeking of course!.


Last edited by hasteyninja on Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:31 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : One word edit.)

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Re: JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

Post by Non Deficere on Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:08 pm

hasteyninja wrote:Your knowledge and experience is hugely appreciated. For the average person like me though, I don't know the first thing about a SAR request or the implications that might go with it; how best to use it as a complaint procedure or whether I'd be pushing buttons to get me into more bother than I bargained for with the JCP staff - finding myself in hot water without the know-how to back it up.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm treading carefully unless pushed because I don't feel experienced enough with this stuff to deal with it with my full integrity, that's why I found solace here, it's people like you that instil significant confidence about my position or others out there in a similar boat, and while I didn't have to use anything you provided (for now) just knowing that advice is there is huge. I'd love to be of help to others, I'm just waiting to see what his next move is before I decide anything, I just want to protect my ability to eat first and foremost.

As I said in the first post, I was trying to complain to my WC's manager after the latest debacle post-meeting but she wasn't around, i asked for her details, phone no. and name, on the phone I got her email address, turns out it was the wrong one and there was another dwp employee with the same name half way across the country Shocked. To her credit she was trying to help me find the right person but after news of the sanction removal I decided to halt the complaint for now - I wouldn't know where to start with the legislative facts, I just really wanted to give her a piece of my mind about the guy and the way he's been treating my case.

Will he back off a bit? Probably not, you'd think he would when his superiors at the DWP are telling him my job search evidence is fine, but I'll continue just now as is and see what next fortnight has in store for me, I will use that time to read up on all of your links to try to better understand the procedures and my rights, as well as job-seeking of course!.


You can still appeal your first sanction.  I have done so many I can almost do them in my sleep!  Lol  It won't take much time if you would like some help.  

I can also assist you with your other concerns off line if you like?
Non Deficere
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Re: JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

Post by ABC on Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:13 pm

Non Deficere wrote:Request your personal information via a Subject Access Request (SAR), which is free.
You don’t have to use the DWP online service, you can simply write a letter to request the information you need.

I think a claimant can bypass the usual routes and go straight to the people who handle these SARs. Their email address is rightofaccess.requests@dwp.gsi.gov.uk

The only downside seems to be that they don't have an automated response for received email so you can be left wondering if they've received it or not.
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Re: JSA Sanction and conversion to UC?

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