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Migration to Universal Credit

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Migration to Universal Credit  Empty Migration to Universal Credit

Post by ForgetMeNot Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:06 am

DWP has been very busy indeed.

There are only around 39000 people currently claiming JSA, circa 55 per Jobcentre.

Job Seekers Allowance

(JSA only / JSA & CTC and/or HB)

39,000

2%


I imagine people have been 'encouraged' to claim voluntary, or they have been subjected to a spurious disallowance which has led to their JSA claim being closed.  This process maybe unlawful!

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201719/ldselect/ldseclegb/244/24404.htm
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Post by dboy Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:05 pm

I am totally shell shocked so many have fallen.

Afaik managed migration still needs to passed before it can be fully rolled out, the government appear to be on verge of collapsing and lost the support of the DUP at the moment so either way hopefully that could delay the roll out further or just wishful thinking on my part.




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Post by ForgetMeNot Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:17 pm

dboy wrote:I am totally shell shocked so many have fallen.

Afaik managed migration still needs to passed before it can be fully rolled out, the government appear to be on verge of collapsing and lost the support of the DUP at the moment so either way hopefully that could delay the roll out further or just wishful thinking on my part.




I think this will encourage DWP officials to nudge claimants into making a UC claim voluntarily or, forcing them to via natural migration i.e. closing claims unlawfully! Sad


Last edited by ForgetMeNot on Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by dboy Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:26 pm

I presume this was was also the primary motivation behind these group sessions and third party providers running courses for Universal Credit.

I have thankfully avoided attending these but fully aware of the bullshit they would have fed to unsuspecting claimants extolling the virtues of UC and not to believe everything they hear and read.

I spoke to someone at my local JCP who attended one of these courses and made the move voluntarily, they were led to believe UC was online and they would not be asked to attend the JCP as often.

I intend to cling on to JSA whatever it takes, I will not be nudged for love nor money and hopefully if oneman case gets their legacy reinstated in full service area (afaik that is still in progress ? ) it would help countless others who have the same intention as myself and faced with the same underhanded tactic.

I guess it will be in the DWP interests to delay a decision for as long as possible and fight tooth and nail.

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Post by ForgetMeNot Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:47 am

dboy wrote:I presume this was was also the primary motivation behind these group sessions and third party providers running courses for Universal Credit.

I have thankfully avoided attending these but fully aware of the bullshit they would have fed to unsuspecting claimants extolling the virtues of UC and not to believe everything they hear and read.

I spoke to someone at my local JCP who attended one of these courses and made the move voluntarily, they were led to believe UC was online and they would not be asked to attend the JCP as often.

I intend to cling on to JSA whatever it takes, I will not be nudged for love nor money and hopefully if oneman case gets their legacy reinstated in full service area (afaik that is still in progress ? ) it would help countless others who have the same intention as myself and faced with the same underhanded tactic.

I guess it will be in the DWP interests to delay a decision for as long as possible and fight tooth and nail.

Suggestions to prevent your claim being disallowed (usually ASE doubt cases), or obtaining a swift decision.  

ASE decisions are generally made with 2 working days, so if an unfavourable decisions is reached you will not be able to claim Hardship and unless you have some means you may have no alternative but to claim UC!

Some doubts are referred to the DWP decision Maker without the claimants knowledge, this is unlawful.

If you have been informed that a doubt is being raised, you need to ask for a copy of what the work coach has submitted on the DWP computer system.

If necessary, you then need to ask for time to take advice before the case is submitted to the Decision Maker.

Relevant caselaw:

15.  In this situation there is no formal burden of proof on either side. The process is essentially a fact-gathering exercise, conducted largely if not entirely on paper, to which both the claimant and the department must contribute. The claimant must answer such questions as the department may choose to put to him honestly and to the best of his ability. The department must then make such inquiries as it can to supplement the information which the claimant has given to it. The matter is then in the hands of the adjudicator. All being well, the issue of entitlement will be resolved without difficulty.

   16.  But there some basic principles which made be used to guide the decision where the information falls short of what is needed for a clear decision to be made one way or the other:

   (1)  Facts which may reasonably be supposed to be within the claimant's own knowledge are for the claimant to supply at each stage in the inquiry.

   (2)  But the claimant must be given a reasonable opportunity to supply them. Knowledge as to the information that is needed to deal with his claim lies with the department, not with him.

   (3)  So it is for the department to ask the relevant questions. The claimant is not to be faulted if the relevant questions to show whether or not the claim is excluded by the Regulations were not asked.

   (4)  The general rule is that it is for the party who alleges an affirmative to make good his allegation. It is also a general rule that he who desires to take advantage of an exception must bring himself within the provisions of the exception. As Lord Wilberforce observed, exceptions are to be set up by those who rely on them: Nimmo v Alexander Cowan & Sons Ltd [1968] AC 107, 130.

In most cases the doubt is raised because the official has found jobs you have failed to apply for.  This can be countered quite easily, but unfortunately, this may on occasions take 2 attempts; the mandatory consideration and a request for another review before Tribunal.

If this happens, you need to add in bold at the top of your letter that you/your family will suffer severe hardship and suffering. Therefore, a swift decision is required.  

There are special procedures to ask the Tribunal to make an urgent decision, but you will most likely need professional help.

Edit:

You are also entitled to a copy of the policy that requires you to claim UC.


Last edited by ForgetMeNot on Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by ForgetMeNot Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:42 am

Q Asked by Laura Pidcock(North West Durham)[N] Asked on: 09 November 2018
Department for Work and PensionsUniversal Credit189808
To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, how many people have moved on to universal credit during the natural migration phase without having a specific change of circumstance that would require a new claim for a legacy benefit.
A Answered by: Alok Sharma Answered on: 14 November 2018
Claimants only move from existing benefits to Universal Credit through natural migration when they experience a significant change in their circumstances that triggers a new claim to benefit. Their entitlement is then calculated on the rules of their new benefit.
https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2018-11-09/189808/

IB JSA claimants being told by Jobcentre workers that blocks of claimants have to move to UC
https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/12851/
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Post by dboy Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:37 pm

ForgetMeNot wrote:

IB JSA claimants being told by Jobcentre workers that blocks of claimants have to move to UC
https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/12851/

I can safely say without doubt that my JCP have been using various tactics to push folk into closing claims down and moving over to universal credit over a number of years, this was why I was removed from the one and only group session I was asked to attend where UC was the main subject.

They told everyone they would have to claim UC in few months time anyway so it makes sense to change over now and we can help you !

I regret refusing to attend in many ways these group sessions so I could challenge the misinformation to urge caution to other claimants because those who are most vulnerable are easy targets for this kind of pressure and the most likely to suffer.

Maybe they are realising managed migration might not be possible to push through so turned to nefarious means to accomplish but I am still shocked the numbers so low for jobseekers on legacy I thought we were made of sterner stuff but as you say they really have been busy.

Still all it takes is 55 legacy jobseekers who know they on a step based condition as opposed to time based condition so have the time to protest at the job centre for those who are stuck on UC be it a jobseeker or not. Because lets face it once everyone is on UC who will even have the time to protest !



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Post by dboy Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:30 pm

From what I know they are starting with 10.000 test runs once they begin the process of managed migration and it struck me that considering the low numbers on JSA now I have a 1 in 3 chance of being picked if they choose to take my group out first.

Still shocked and now worried lol.

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Post by ForgetMeNot Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:14 am

I would be more worried about my claim being closed down unlawfully in the interim.

No doubt Managed Migration will be beset with problems, particularly for people who are not in regular contact with Jobcentre.

If your JSA claim is closed down due to an unfavourable labour market decision I would suggest you seek urgent professional advice.

https://advicelocal.uk/

The number of JSA claims will fall rapidly over the next few months, so please be aware most of the information/letters in the Jobseeker help section and elsewhere will become obsolete.


Last edited by ForgetMeNot on Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by dboy Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:40 pm

I think this is why I am ensuring they up their game at my JCP and the manager reminded of the rules and regulations they are charged with administrating to prevent them unlawfully attempting to do anything to me.

I will use every trick tip and advice I can find that will thwart the migration to UC for as long as possible and take hope that as of now the rules for managed migration have yet to be passed into law.

Onemans case triggered me so I have reminded the manager at my local job centre of the civil service code of practice and asked them to clarify the rules in relation to ASE they believe along with all the work coaches that the step based rules have expired and 35 hours or more now applies to everyone and has done for years.

Back in 2013 they started to use the 35 hour regime at my local JCP it was only 2017 they went full service which explains why they have all forgotten.

If the manager is fully aware and reminded of the rules/regulations (ASE) and they still apply to me I think it would be much harder for them as a civil servant under the civil service code of practice to overstep the Law and much easier to then to take said civil servant rather than the DWP to civil court for harassment and or possible gross negligence if they did.

Doubly so imo if the unlawful act is committed during on going dialogue over the issue with said civil servant.

That is my plan which gives me some peace of mind and strength possibly born out of madness, genius or just flawed assumptions difficult to tell until the results roll in but if it is genius I am good to go if it is madness then the EA 2010 might be in order.

I am already officially classed by the DWP as disabled due to my acrophobia (fear of heights) and yet to tackle my ergophobia (abnormal and persistent fear of or finding employment)

Due to how I am affected by my mental health/disability and how it affects me I should be entitled to claim the UC ill/disabled element without a face to face assessment and they would be in breach of the EA 2010 if I was denied access to benefits due to my disability.

They accepted my acrophobia without corroborating evidence why should they not take the same common sense approach when it comes to ergophobia and finally if they resisted I think I can prove beyond all reasonable doubt let alone the balance of probabilities that it is a very real and very debilitating illness for me.

I believe I am not alone in suffering this ergo-phobic nightmare !





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Post by dboy Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:01 pm

All civil servants are required to be impartial and adhere to a code of conduct – we take any breaches of this very seriously.

‘Following this judgment, we will continue to ensure all employees receive regular staff training to increase their awareness and understanding of the policies in place.’

https://metro.co.uk/2018/12/11/muslim-jobcentre-worker-sacked-for-anti-trump-and-tommy-robinson-tweets-gets-38000-payout-8232241/

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/dismissals_for_breach_of_civil_s?nocache=outgoing-846118#outgoing-846118


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Post by ForgetMeNot Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:06 am

Some good ideas there dboy.

Unlike ESA, there is no automatic requirement for a medical assessment.

My word of caution is, that if your UC/LWC claim failed you might find that you're considered not available for work either, so no entitlement to UC.
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Post by Absolut Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:58 am

I've had the same roaches try to "persuade" me  Rolling Eyes on numerous occasions to voluntarily close my joint JSA claim and claim UC instead. When I say no, they expect me to explain why not. Roaches often forget that during a JSA work search review the claimant is under no obligation to talk to the roach about anything other than what they have done to find work in order to be paid JSA for the last fortnight.

What does a UC claim have to do with a JSA work search review? Nothing. As far as I know it doesn't say anything at all in the JSA rules about UC, such as "in order to get JSA you must look for and take work that will lead to a UC claim".

What roaches seem to have in mind is not claimants who don't need the DWP's "help" anymore, but people stuck in part time jobs while also being subjected to DWP rules under UC for no other reason than such a situation gives them power over others that they did not previously possess. Twisted Evil
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Post by Pintel Wed Aug 03, 2022 7:21 pm

Was in the JCP 🚽, today and the Roach clown suggested  with my Health condition's I should consider moving to the UC scheme confused. Yet the JCP 🚽, wouldn't transfer me to the Sick (pip) etc... As my condition has been stable for the last four years 🗓️.  Is this a stealth tatic to get legacy benefits Claimant's, to switch to the UC system. As I understand a change of circumstance, sanction, or within a targeted 🎯 area. Causes a transfer to the UC.

So are there any benefits for Claimant's to swap over, as I thought the UC was the same for all, with no extra considerations  for disabilities etc..

scratch Migration to Universal Credit  2650990582
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Post by Absolut Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:06 am

Is this a stealth tatic to get legacy benefits Claimant's, to switch to the UC system.

Yes. They imply that UC is better for sick and disabled claimants when it's worse. In other words, they lie.

suggested  with my Health condition's I should consider moving to the UC scheme
my condition has been stable for the last four years

The only reason for a switch to UC would be if your condition had deteriorated to the point where you'd be 100% guaranteed to pass a WCA. We know the likelihood of that is near zero. You would be found "fit for work". As you would be found "fit for work" then there is no point in switching to UC where the rules are more onerous than under JSA. UC is only fit for purpose once a claimant has a job where the hours are above 16 per week (light touch regime).

Here is the rule for JSA from the DM's Chapter 21 about restrictions and availability:

21443 Claimants may restrict their availability in any way if the restrictions are reasonable in light of their physical or mental condition1. Claimants who restrict their availability in this way do not have to show that they have reasonable prospects of obtaining employment with the restriction. Physical or mental condition means some personal disability2.
JSA Regs, reg 13(3); 2 R(JSA) 3/01

21444 DMs can obtain medical evidence if they do not have enough evidence to decide if the restrictions are reasonable because of the claimant's physical or mental condition.
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Post by Ignatius Thu Mar 23, 2023 3:34 pm

I found this update from our government about the progress of managed migration.

It looks like 2023/24 will be devoted to migrating people on tax credits and then they will be coming after the remaining legacy benefits claimants in 2024/25.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/completing-the-move-to-universal-credit-learning-from-the-discovery-phase/completing-the-move-to-universal-credit-learning-from-the-discovery-phase

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Post by Pintel Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:36 pm

Thanks #Ignatius👍.

It's December 2024, when there's the General election? Just wondered if this might put a 🔧 in the works, to this migration by the DWP🚽.
You can at least Hope 🤞
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Post by Ignatius Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:08 pm

The number of people migrated under the discovery phase (what on earth is that DWP speak for???) is lower than I thought. As people on tax credits are working & not subject to savings limits I suppose there is potential there for electoral politics to come in to play and delay managed migration. Failing that, 🤞for a DWP cock up to delay things. It looks like if you live in one of the discovery areas you will be getting pounced on sooner rather than later.

When I go to sign & security check my name on the list, I've noticed there is only a handful of JSA claimants left now.


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Post by Absolut Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:05 am

Ignatius wrote:When I go to sign & security check my name on the list, I've noticed there is only a handful of JSA claimants left now.

It's the same in our job centre. There are 5 of us left on the list and that includes Mr Absolut. They are now booking us into the first 2 appointments of the day, to get us done and out of the way.
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Post by Pintel Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:22 pm

A similar situation for me at local JCP 🚽 receptions jsa paper list😕. I thought it might be the usual DWP 👺 efficiency, where they only print out the hours list. Like a letter 📝 from the JCP 🚽 I recently got, with one of the pages printed on it 'this page has been intentionally left blank'. So wasting paper & printer ink✒.confused.

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Post by Ignatius Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:53 pm

I'm tempted to do a FOI request to find out how many legacy benefit claimants there are left to migrate. It's a bit worrying how few JSA people there are left. I intend to hang on until the last possible moment.

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Post by Ignatius Fri Mar 31, 2023 3:37 pm

It would appear that the DWP tanks are coming are coming after more legacy benefit claimants from April 😠.

Poorly researched article but more tax credits people to be migrated imminently. And when they've done them, they're coming for the JSA and IS folk. Who knows if this next phase of managed migration will be national or area by area like they've been doing so far.

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/major-changes-benefits-coming-april-8307421


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Post by Ignatius Mon Apr 17, 2023 1:11 pm

For anyone curious to know how managed migration is progressing, the government has a real time tracker thingy of remaining legacy benefit claimants v UC claimants per parliamentary constituency.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/constituency-data-universal-credit-roll-out/



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Post by Ignatius Mon Apr 17, 2023 1:11 pm

For anyone curious to know how managed migration is progressing, the government has a real time tracker thingy of remaining legacy benefit claimants v UC claimants per parliamentary constituency.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/constituency-data-universal-credit-roll-out/

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Post by bully3061 Tue Apr 18, 2023 6:00 pm

Didn't even no ergophobia was a word Migration to Universal Credit  2035158131 . Will be looking into this as i have anxiety re holding down a job.
Fibromyalgia and doing voluntary work in a charity shop proved to me id not handle it. I was having to have more than prescribed meds to cope. Which in turn feeds poor mental health.

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