Work and Health Programme statistics to August 2018

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Work and Health Programme statistics to August 2018 Empty Work and Health Programme statistics to August 2018

Post by ForgetMeNot on Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:16 am

Published 29 November 2018
From: Department for Work and Pensions
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/work-and-health-programme-statistics-to-august-2018

Since the Work and Health Programme began there have been:
38,060 referrals for 33,360 individuals and 24,720 starts
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Post by ABC on Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:41 pm

What they don't tell you is why 25% of the referrals are non-starters. That would be of more interest.
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Post by Caker on Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:37 pm

Also, some people must have been referred more than once as there are more referrals than individuals.
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Post by Pintel on Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:31 pm

I was wondering what the 5% LT Unemployed have been told about the Program from there Roaches? No

Main stories
86% of all people starting the Work and Health Programme have a disability or health condition. 9% are from early access groups and 5% are long-term unemployed.
silent
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Post by ForgetMeNot on Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:03 am

The average number of LTU claimants in each Jobcentre is circa 166.  The expected WHP volumes is circa 4-8 starts pm, per Jobcentre over the duration of the scheme.  

If you are 24 months unemployed, and within the intensive work search regime of the all work-related requirements group in UC, or JSA equivalent claimants it may be helpful to acquaint yourself with the WHP assessment tool and guidance to minimise a potential referral.

The 25% failure to attend rate will be due to people volunteering to be referred, but deciding not to join the programme after having a chat with the provider.
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Post by Pintel on Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:21 am

Work and Health Programme statistics to August 2018 2035158131  @ForgetMeNot.

By any change have you got the link to the DWP's "WHP assessment tool and guidance"? cheers
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Post by ForgetMeNot on Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:52 pm

Pintel wrote:Work and Health Programme statistics to August 2018 2035158131  @ForgetMeNot.

By any chance have you got the link to the DWP's "WHP assessment tool and guidance"? cheers

Here is some bedtime reading Pintel  Very Happy :
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/461555/response/1118126/attach/4/6.WC%20actions%20DCAMS.PDF.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/433524/response/1055629/attach/3/3949%20reply.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/work_and_health_programme_provid_4
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/499507/response/1209912/attach/3/J%20Smith%203271.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

In summary:
Claimants are selected randomly via the tool, because of the limited places.

The key areas:
Mindset
Health
Employability
Skills and qualifications
Your personal circumstances

You will not be referred to the WHP if JCP can meet your needs with current provision and/ or you're already participating in some work related activity.

You are unlikely to be selected if you have few, or no barriers preventing you from securing work.

You are more likely to be selected if you have a health condition/disability that is affecting your ability to find work.
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Post by Absolut on Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:15 am

ABC wrote:What they don't tell you is why 25% of the referrals are non-starters. That would be of more interest.

Well, disabled claimants being able to get there might be part of it. I was asked if I had "considered" attending. I was not actually referred as due to a break in my JSA claim I've not been back on JSA for 24 months yet and attendance would be voluntary (although this was not mentioned). I asked where the scheme was located and it's 10 miles away. That is well over my restricted travel distance. The WHP in my area clearly does not cater for people with travel difficulties, which makes the whole scheme rather pointless.
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Post by ABC on Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:36 pm

ForgetMeNot wrote:You will not be referred to the WHP if JCP can meet your needs with current provision and/ or you're already participating in some work related activity.

Would that include voluntary work?

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Post by Gallazz on Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:23 pm

ABC wrote:
ForgetMeNot wrote:You will not be referred to the WHP if JCP can meet your needs with current provision and/ or you're already participating in some work related activity.

Would that include voluntary work?


I can't even find where it says that, but it's interesting because in both appointments where my referral to WHP was discussed, the wc brought up the voluntary work I'm doing. It's very close to the Jobcentre and both times he said, "It's weird I've never seen you", as if he didn't believe I was really doing it...

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Post by Gallazz on Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:14 am

Gallazz wrote:
ABC wrote:
ForgetMeNot wrote:You will not be referred to the WHP if JCP can meet your needs with current provision and/ or you're already participating in some work related activity.

Would that include voluntary work?


I can't even find where it says that, but it's interesting because in both appointments where my referral to WHP was discussed, the wc brought up the voluntary work I'm doing. It's very close to the Jobcentre and both times he said, "It's weird I've never seen you", as if he didn't believe I was really doing it...


I found it, and it does - see page 20: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/461555/response/1118126/attach/4/6.WC%20actions%20DCAMS.PDF.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

So maybe if I'd tried a bit harder to convince the wc that I was really volunteering (which I am), I could've dodged a f***in' referral *tsk*

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Post by Pintel on Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:33 am

Also to whom fills in the 'DCAMS', as we all know that Work-Roaches do add there own agenda's, and are prone to lying on forms  Rolling Eyes . I was wondering if you could challenge a referral on this ground?

"So maybe if I'd tried a bit harder to convince the wc that I was really volunteering (which I am), I could've dodged a f***in' referral *tsk*" Maybe you could take a 'selfie' of you at your voluntary position @Gallazz, as they do love there evidence!
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Post by ForgetMeNot on Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:55 am

Gallazz wrote:
Gallazz wrote:
ABC wrote:
ForgetMeNot wrote:You will not be referred to the WHP if JCP can meet your needs with current provision and/ or you're already participating in some work related activity.

Would that include voluntary work?


I can't even find where it says that, but it's interesting because in both appointments where my referral to WHP was discussed, the wc brought up the voluntary work I'm doing. It's very close to the Jobcentre and both times he said, "It's weird I've never seen you", as if he didn't believe I was really doing it...

I found it, and it does - see page 20: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/461555/response/1118126/attach/4/6.WC%20actions%20DCAMS.PDF.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

If necessary you may wish to show your work coach their own guidance.

I concur with ABC, you defiinitley have not been mandated.

Have you completed a Vol1 form regarding your voluntary work?

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/form_to_declare_voluntary_work_t


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Post by Gallazz on Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:27 am

I haven't completed a Vol1 form because although I've mentioned my voluntary work to a number of wc, none of them has asked me to, which surprised me because I have been asked to when I've volunteered in the past. Hmmm.

The wc who didn't seem to believe I was volunteering referred me on what turned out to be my last ever appointment with them, but if my new wc ever tries to send me back to WHP, I could offer to supply evidence of my volunteering and say the old one not believing me may have been part of the reason he referred me.

Would volunteering definitely get you out of WHP, do you think?



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Post by ForgetMeNot on Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:56 am

Gallazz wrote:I haven't completed a Vol1 form because although I've mentioned my voluntary work to a number of wc, none of them has asked me to, which surprised me because I have been asked to when I've volunteered in the past. Hmmm.

The wc who didn't seem to believe I was volunteering referred me on what turned out to be my last ever appointment with them, but if my new wc ever tries to send me back to WHP, I could offer to supply evidence of my volunteering and say the old one not believing me may have been part of the reason he referred me.

Would volunteering definitely get you out of WHP, do you think?



Providing you do not need any any other assistance which is not available to JCP.  After 24 months, I imagine you have been on every course and scheme, so all other bases should have been covered by now. Very Happy


Last edited by ForgetMeNot on Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:37 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typos)
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Post by Gallazz on Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:19 pm

Thanks for all the responses to my post. I've held back from detailing my experiences/findings in full in my public posts, but anyone who wants to know more can PM me. Once again, if you have a disability or health problem, try to avoid WHP.

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Post by ABC on Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:02 pm

[quote="Gallazz"]
Gallazz wrote:I found it, and it does - see page 20: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/461555/response/1118126/attach/4/6.WC%20actions%20DCAMS.PDF.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

So maybe if I'd tried a bit harder to convince the wc that I was really volunteering (which I am), I could've dodged a f***in' referral *tsk*

I'm not sure page 20 helps at all as it seems to say the exact opposite. What those particular questions on page 20 do is determine whether the claimant is open to "learning and adapting" and voluntary work is seen as a definite yes for that category and would therefore be an active reason to refer the claimant to the WHP and not to disbar them from it. So by saying you were volunteering you were providing info that made it more likely you would be referred to the WHP, which is why your wc was so keen to know.
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Post by ForgetMeNot on Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:22 pm

ABC wrote:
Gallazz wrote:
Gallazz wrote:I found it, and it does - see page 20: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/461555/response/1118126/attach/4/6.WC%20actions%20DCAMS.PDF.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

So maybe if I'd tried a bit harder to convince the wc that I was really volunteering (which I am), I could've dodged a f***in' referral *tsk*

I'm not sure page 20 helps at all as it seems to say the exact opposite. What those particular questions on page 20 do is determine whether the claimant is open to "learning and adapting" and voluntary work is seen as a definite yes for that category and would therefore be an active reason to refer the claimant to the WHP and not to disbar them from it. So by saying you were volunteering you were providing info that made it more likely you would be referred to the WHP, which is why your wc was so keen to know.

Why would a referral to the WHP be beneficial if a claimants 'needs' are being satified by alternative provision, such as voluntary work?
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Post by ABC on Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:55 pm

ForgetMeNot wrote:Why would a referral to the WHP be beneficial if a claimants 'needs' are being satified by alternative provision, such as voluntary work?

I suppose they would argue that voluntary work on its own may not be sufficient to meet a cliamant's needs if they have one or more disabilities that the Jobcentre can't provide support for. So they shove you off to the WHP instead.


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Post by Non Deficere on Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:32 pm

ABC wrote:
ForgetMeNot wrote:Why would a referral to the WHP be beneficial if a claimants 'needs' are being satified by alternative provision, such as voluntary work?

I suppose they would argue that voluntary work on its own may not be sufficient to meet a cliamant's needs if they have one or more disabilities that the Jobcentre can't provide support for. So they shove you off to the WHP instead.


Hey ABC!

I expect most long-term unemployed people (including those with a health condition) have already engaged in every opportunity to improve their prospects of securing employment.

The wc would have to provide material evidence to support a submission to the W&HP.  Relevant caselaw is available on this forum!  Very Happy
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Post by ABC on Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:13 pm

Thanks ND. I'm considering writing a pre-emptive letter to try to convince them I shouldn't be referred. What sort of info could/should I include in that?
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Post by Non Deficere on Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:20 pm

ABC wrote:Thanks ND. I'm considering writing a pre-emptive letter to try to convince them I shouldn't be referred. What sort of info could/should I include in that?

Sorry ABC. I have been preoccupied with other matters.

You can only be randomly selected if your circumstances match the suitability criteria, so you could simply ask which criterion you meet, before making representation.

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Post by Gallazz on Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:48 am

What those particular questions on page 20 do is determine whether the claimant is open to "learning and adapting" and voluntary work is seen as a definite yes for that category and would therefore be an active reason to refer the claimant to the WHP and not to disbar them from it. So by saying you were volunteering you were providing info that made it more likely you would be referred to the WHP, which is why your wc was so keen to know.


I think might be right, ABC. Hope you managed to avoid it yourself, btw.

An update/summary of my situation: before I first posted here about disengaging from the WHP(voluntary referral), I asked my new work coach and the disability advisor if I could disengage without a sanction, told them my reasons (eg being asked probing questions about my mental health in a public setting) and they said I could on the basis that it was making my anxiety worse. I called the provided and told them I wanted to disengage, they asked for a reason and the name of my work coach, suggesting they were going to contact the Jobcentre (I've read in the provider guidance that they're supposed to notify the Jobcentre when a voluntary participant disengages).

At my next signing after that, I asked my work coach what the upshot was and s/he said, 'We told them it wasn't appropriate support...' That seemed reassuring but it wasn't in writing...

Two months after that, there was a CC review. S/he said the reason for this was to include a note about my disability/health condition, because the old one didn't, and nothing else was different. I know there was already a note on my file, but not on my CC. When I read through it after I'd signed it, it had been amended to say, 'I am unable to attend the WHP due to my health condition', and, 'Attend the WHP when required: Completed'. That seemed promising although I wondered why s/he didn't mention any of it.

It seems like the new CC covers me from being mandated back onto the programme as per the referral guidance - 'Explain to the potential voluntary participant that if they reach 24 months ... and disengage, they will be mandated for the remainder of time.' That quoting isn't 100% accurate, and the work coach who referred me to WHP did NOT explain that to me - they lied outright, saying, 'If you don't like it, we'll try you with something else'!! I found out when I read the work coach guidance online some time ago.

I've just had a letter and a phone call from the provider, the former saying that a new provider is taking over the programme at new premises. When they rang me, they said they were 'just checking if there [was] any support [I] need' and to 'give us a shout if you need anything'. I hope I'm wrong but I'm wondering if the Jobcentre has decided the accepted reason for not continuing on the WHP is no longer valid because a new company is taking over, and that's why I've been contacted again. The staff might just be moving to the new provider, though.

After the phone call I emailed them asking for a copy of everything I'd signed on the WHP. I wanted to do this a while ago but couldn't face contacting them again, but I thought I might as well as they've been in touch with me. The first reply asked which forms I was requesting (I thought I made it pretty clear) and I said I wasn't sure what they all were but that I knew there were data sharing forms and an ESF form, then got a reply saying there's a procedure I need to follow, but they'll get back to me tomorrow.

If they did mandate me back onto WHP, could I contest it on the basis of not being informed by the work coach who referred me or the provider that this would happen (under normal circumstances) if I disengaged?

Sorry it's so long!


Last edited by Caker on Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:56 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)

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Post by Non Deficere on Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:28 pm

Based on the information you have provided here, you have not been lawfully mandated to participate in the W&HP.

Please provide further information regarding any mandatory referral.

Many thanks!
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Post by Gallazz on Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:54 pm

Much appreciated, ND. You will be my first port of call if that happens.




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