Work and Health Programme part 2

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Re: Work and Health Programme part 2

Post by ABC on Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:21 pm

This FOI is interesting in relation to participating:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/412029/response/1003220/attach/html/5/02%20a%20Considering%20JSA%20Labour%20Market%20Doubts.pdf.html

Failing to participate in an adviser interview
Background
126. The Jobseeker’s Allowance regulations (1996), specifically regulation 23, require
claimants to participate in an interview in such manner, time and place as an employment
officer may specify by a notification which is given or sent to the claimant and which may be
in writing, by telephone or by electronic means.
127. Regulation 70A(3) of The Jobseeker’s Allowance (Sanctions) (Amendment) Regulations
(2012), provide that a claimant can have a sanction imposed on their JSA if they fail to attend
an interview or intervention without good reason.
128. Consequently, a claimant can have a sanction imposed if they fail to participate in a face
to face interview. However, as Regulation 70A refers to attendance, a sanction cannot be
imposed if a claimant fails to take part in a telephone interview.
NB: Although regulations refer to ‘participation’, no DMA action can be taken against
claimants for failing to participate. Only failing to attend action can be considered. In
this section, therefore, ‘participate’ should be read as ‘attend’ only.
AR Codes

So it would seem that "failure to participate" has the specific meaning of failure to attend a meeting and not failure to do anything the wc wants you to do which is how they seem to interpret it.
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Re: Work and Health Programme part 2

Post by Caker on Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:01 pm

A good find ABC. Very Happy

If I was not already zero telephone contact then I would feel quite confident to refuse to participate in a telephone call from someone purporting to be from DWP, on the basis of this FOI.
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Re: Work and Health Programme part 2

Post by El-dudeareno on Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:05 pm

Absolut wrote:https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/403081/response/1004962/attach/html/6/04%20HWC%20training%20My%204%20Steps%20v3.0.pdf.html

All the training modules are written as if work coaches are dealing with 5 year olds but the authors' mindset really comes through in Slide 9:

Internal obstacle - "feeling lazy".

They just had to get lazy in there somewhere.

As pointed out in the comments on the FOI (https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/full_copies_of_your_health_and_w#comment-79029) it's very close to the 12 steps AA program. They even use alcohol as an example.

Don't forget though, in the HWC "conversation" - 'you don't have to be perfect'. drunken





I like pagex36 best of the slideslow:

Want: To volunteer for charity shop work
Do you really, or is it to get the work-roach off your back?

Outcome: I would feel motivated and proud.
Being exploited always motivates me!

Obstacle: I feel daunted by the application process.
I feel that they could at least pay me for my work?

Plan: I’ll call my friend and ask for help.
And they can confirm to me that is would be a waste of time to work for nothing  cyclops  .


WOOP “A very useful sound when it comes to expressing how you feel, a sound of happyness!”

Want –Outcome -Obstacle -Plan

And lets not forget the getting "grassed up" by your neighbour for doing voluntary work  No  ! As well as the large form you need to fill in before you start doing anything!
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Re: Work and Health Programme part 2

Post by helping_hand on Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:24 pm

The Decision Makers' guide contradicts the FOI above:

Failure to participate in an interview
Introduction
34831 DMG Chapter 20 gives guidance on the way in which the claimant, including each
member of a joint-claim couple, have to participate in an interview. Legislation1
amended the requirement from 22.10.12 to allow the claimant (or in the case of a
joint-claim couple, each member of the couple) to participate in an interview without
having to attend at the Jobcentre in person.
1 JS Act 95, s 8(1)(a) & (1A)(a); JSA Regs, regs 23 & 23A
34832 It is a failure to participate in an interview in such a manner, time and place as
specified in a relevant notification that provides the reason to sanction and not a
failure to attend1
(also see DMG 34833).
1 JS Act 95, s 19A(2)(a)


Meaning of participation
34833 Attendance is just one way a claimant can take part in an interview. Participation
includes all ways of taking part in an interview whether by
1. actual attendance
2. telephone or
3. electronic means (e.g. e mail) and
4. answering questions and completing relevant forms.

It is the advisor who will specify the manner of participation.
Note: The claimant can still be required to attend interviews at the time and place
as specified. That requirement is not changed in any way. However, the
requirement has changed to a requirement that claimant’s participate. Requiring
claimants to ‘participate’ has two implications. It permits other ways of taking part in
an interview in addition to attending the office. It also means that it is no longer
enough for the claimant to simply join in the interview, by turning up on time at the
right place, they now have to ‘participate’ in the interview by answering questions
and completing forms which are an integral part of the interview (see DMG Chapter
20 for full guidance on participation). A failure to take part in an arranged telephone
interview could not be regarded as ‘attending’ and so the reason for sanction is
changed to a ‘failure to participate’ to encompass all types of interview and not just
attending at the office



Hidden..


CPAG interpretation of participation...

3. PARTICIPATING OR TAKING PART IN A WFI

As well as attending, you are required to 'take part' in a WFI or ‘participate’ in a JSA interview. This involves answering relevant questions, providing relevant information and engaging in discussion about your qualifications, skills, barriers to finding work and employment aspirations. It may be helpful to prepare for the interview by thinking about these requirements in advance.

If you are sanctioned for failing to attend a WFI, you should be given a new appointment for a further WFI (unless you are no longer required to attend one). It is important that you attend the new appointment as this will trigger the end of the open-ended period of an ESA or IS sanction - see Chapter 48 of the CPAG Handbook.

http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/ask-cpag-online-how-can-you-avoid-‘work-focused-interview-sanction

What is the purpose of attending an interview if no discussion takes place?

Example of a lawful reg23 notice
3. A computer generated letter which tells a claimant to participate at a
particular Jobcentre Plus office or other place (for example a community
centre) to go to an interview with an Emp O to discuss, for example, job
search or possible training schemes or employment programmes, on a
particular day at a particular time.

Primary JSA legislation

Denial of jobseeker’s allowance

19A.—(1) The amount of an award of a jobseeker’s allowance is
to be reduced in accordance with this section in the event of a
failure by the claimant which is sanctionable under this section.
(2) It is a failure sanctionable under this section if a claimant–
(a) without a good reason fails to comply with regulations
under section 8(1) or (1A);

8. Attendance, information and evidence
(1) Regulations may make provision for requiring a claimant
[2(other than a joint-claim couple claiming a joint-claim jobseeker’s
allowance)]–
(a) to [3participate in an interview in such manner, time
and place] as [4an employment officer] may specify;
and
(b) to provide information and such evidence as may be
prescribed as to his circumstances, his availability for
employment and the extent to which he is actively
seeking employment.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/18/pdfs/ukpga_19950018_301114_en.pdf

Primary legislation requires the claimant to 'attend' an interview and to provide such evidence and information as may be prescribed to his circumstances his availability for employment and the extent to which he is actively seeking employment.  The request for information can only be limited to work related matters and not personal information, which can only be provided with consent.   A claimant can control what information they share and still meet the legislative requirement.    

Participating in a telephone or email intervention does not meet the legislative requirement of attending/participating in an interview at a particular place.

Edit:
Universal Credit

15Work-focused interview requirement
(1)In this Part a “work-focused interview requirement” is a requirement that a claimant participate in one or more work-focused interviews as specified by the Secretary of State.
(2)A work-focused interview is an interview for prescribed purposes relating to work or work preparation.
(3)The purposes which may be prescribed under subsection (2) include in particular that of making it more likely in the opinion of the Secretary of State that the claimant will obtain paid work (or more paid work or better-paid work).
(4)The Secretary of State may specify how, when and where a work-focused interview is to take place.

There is no reference to 'attend', so the notice could read as follows:

You are required to participate in a telephone/email, work focused interview on, X date at, X time to discuss possible training schemes or employment programmes in a private place of your choosing.

'Attend' has been removed in preparation for Full Service UC.

Digital strategy statement
Users will be able to make a claim, check details of payments, notify changes of circumstance and search for a job through a single account, making digital the primary channel for most working-age people to interact with the Department.
https://www.gov.uk/transformation/exemplars/universal-credit.html

Words in s. 8(1)(a) substituted (22.10.12) by the Welfare Reform Act 2012 (c. 5), s. 45 & Sch.
7, para. 2(2)


70A(3)

(3) This paragraph applies where the claimant–
(a) fails to 2 participate on the day specified in a relevant notification;
(b) makes contact with an employment officer in the manner set out in a relevant notification before the end of the period of five working days beginning with the first working day after the day on which the claimant failed to 2 participate on the day specified; and (c) fails to show a good reason for that failure to 2 participate. (4)

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/207/pdfs/uksi_19960207_300617_en.pdf

After regulation 70 insert—
Cases in which no reduction is to be made under section 19 or 19A
70A1No reduction is to be made under section 19 (higher-level sanctions) where—
a the sanctionable failure is listed in section 19(2)(a), (b), or (d);
b the sanctionable failure occurs before a claim to a jobseeker’s allowance is made; and
c the period of the reduction as calculated under sub-paragraph (a) or (b) of regulation 69(4) is the same as, or shorter than, the period between the date of the sanctionable failure and the date of claim.
2No reduction is to be made under section 19A (other sanctions) where the sanctionable failure is specified in section 19A(2)(a) (failure to comply with regulations under section 8(1) or (1A)) and—
a is a failure to comply with regulation 24 (provision of information and evidence); or
b unless paragraph (3) or (4) applies, is a failure to comply with regulation 23 (attendance) or 23A (attendance by members of a joint-claim couple)14.
3This paragraph applies where the claimant—
a fails to attend on the day specified in a relevant notification;
b makes contact with an employment officer in the manner set out in a relevant notification before the end of the period of five working days beginning with the first working day after the day on which the claimant failed to attend on the day specified; and
c fails to show a good reason for that failure to attend.

http://legislation.data.gov.uk/ukdsi/2012/9780111526149/data.html

helping_hand


@Admin

Can I suggest due to the importance of this topic, that it and the original post is moved to the General Discussion section.


Last edited by helping_hand on Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:10 am; edited 13 times in total (Reason for editing : additional info & corrections)
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Re: Work and Health Programme part 2

Post by Admin on Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:27 pm

however on an interesting note what is the meaning of failure to participate

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/meaning_of_failure_to_participat

Liz Snearer 8 May 2017 Delivered Dear Department for Work and Pensions, Having studied the DMG chapter 20 here: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/sy... it would seem that the definition of "failure to participate" in this context is very narrow and is essentially that a claimant fails to attend a meeting of which he has been notified. Several examples of failure to participate are given and all relate specifically to failure to attend meetings. In practice however jobcentre employees, work coaches etc., use a very broad interpretation of "failure to participate" which, in summary, boils down to a claimant failing to comply with anything that the Jobcentre employee has told them to do. 1. Bearing that in mind please provide the legislation and all other documentary evidence you have that allows this broader definition of "failure to participate" to be used than that which DMG chapter 20 (and legislation) provides for. 2. Furthermore I have read in answers to other FOI requests that because "failure to participate" is not defined in legislation that it should take its ordinary everyday meaning. I do not agree. That it is not defined in legislation means it has no force in law and so cannot be interpreted liberally as the Jobcentres are doing. Please provide any information you have that allows (in a legal sense) the DWP's interpretation that it should take its ordinary everyday meaning. Yours faithfully, Liz Snearer wrote:

on a further comment lower down

J Roberts left an annotation (11 July 2017)

You might be interested in this:

"126. The Jobseeker’s Allowance regulations (1996), specifically regulation 3, require claimants to participate in an interview in such manner, time and place as an employment officer may specify by a notification which is given or sent to the claimant and which may be
in writing, by telephone or by electronic means.
127...
128...
NB: Although regulations refer to ‘participation’, no DMA action can be taken against claimants for failing to participate. Only failing to attend action can be considered. In this section, therefore, ‘participate’ should be read as ‘attend’ only. "
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Re: Work and Health Programme part 2

Post by Absolut on Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:31 am

Rule 34833 has no link to primary legislation as far as I am aware. In other words, it's an internal made up rule. There is no definition of "participate" in the primary legislation other than:

to provide information and such evidence as may be prescribed as to his circumstances, his availability for employment and the extent to which he is actively seeking employment.

Beware roaches citing Unacceptable Customer Behaviour rules in order to bully a claimant into "participating" in an interview. The UCB policy is about health and safety but many roaches have tried to use it incorrectly in order to sanction people for not "participating" in an interview.
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Re: Work and Health Programme part 2

Post by El-dudeareno on Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:57 am

Absolut wrote:Rule 34833 has no link to primary legislation as far as I am aware. In other words, it's an internal made up rule. There is no definition of "participate" in the primary legislation other than:

to provide information and such evidence as may be prescribed as to his circumstances, his availability for employment and the extent to which he is actively seeking employment.

Beware roaches citing Unacceptable Customer Behaviour rules in order to bully a claimant into "participating" in an interview. The UCB policy is about health and safety but many roaches have tried to use it incorrectly in order to sanction people for not "participating" in an interview.

Sorry Absolut, do you know the JCP defintion of 'Unacceptable Customer Behaviour'? Just to make things clear for me? cyclops
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Re: Work and Health Programme part 2

Post by Caker on Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:05 pm

El-dudeareno wrote:
Sorry Absolut, do you know the JCP defintion of 'Unacceptable Customer Behaviour'? Just to make things clear for me? cyclops

It can be absolutely nothing at all. They will fabricate something if necessary  affraid

Sorry, not being facetious. Just speaking from personal experience.


Last edited by Caker on Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:06 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
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Re: Work and Health Programme part 2

Post by ABC on Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:54 pm

You'll note that the DWP has both failed to respond to the FOI from Liz Snearer about ftp and ignored the subsequent reminder from Liz Snearer to respond. It is now awaiting a review. I think a can of worms has been opened (possibly for the reason pointed out by helping_hand)! Very Happy
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Re: Work and Health Programme part 2

Post by Absolut on Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:57 am

El-dudeareno wrote:Sorry Absolut, do you know the JCP defintion of 'Unacceptable Customer Behaviour'? Just to make things clear for me? cyclops

To quote their own words from the FOI:

Unacceptable Customer Behaviour (UCB) is any incident that causes employees or has the potential to make employees feel upset, threatened, frightened or physically at risk and is directed at them because of their work in the Department.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/unacceptable_customer_behaviour_2#incoming-828363

The Unacceptable Customer Behaviour Policy and processes are control measures to manage risk to staff, derived from Management of Health and safety (1999) regulation 3 underpinned by Health and safety at work act (1974).

Examples of UCB can include:
· Violence
· Verbal abuse (inc. by telephone)
· Abuse of a discriminatory nature e.g., sex, race, disability, religion, age
· Threats, which are implied or otherwise
· Intimidation
· Sexual innuendo
· Harassment
· Unwelcome attention
· Attempted or actual assaults - spitting that makes contact with the body is classed as an assault
· Damage to property
· Employees filmed, photographed or recorded in the workplace or working off-site, without their express consent
· Threats made in writing or via email
· Information about employees posted on social media e.g. face book

The list is not exhaustive. Any other incident that makes an employee feel uncomfortable, vulnerable or threatened must be reported. Incidents where the person’s identity is not known should also be reported.

Lack of participation or co-operation in an interview is not covered by the UCB policy and falls under primary JSA/UC/ESA legislation only.
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Re: Work and Health Programme part 2

Post by El-dudeareno on Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:56 am

To quote their own words from the FOI:

Unacceptable Customer Behaviour (UCB) is any incident that causes employees or has the potential to make employees feel upset, threatened, frightened or physically at risk and is directed at them because of their work in the Department.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/unacceptable_customer_behaviour_2#incoming-828363

The Unacceptable Customer Behaviour Policy and processes are control measures to manage risk to staff, derived from Management of Health and safety (1999) regulation 3 underpinned by Health and safety at work act (1974).

Examples of UCB can include:
· Violence
· Verbal abuse (inc. by telephone)
· Abuse of a discriminatory nature e.g., sex, race, disability, religion, age
· Threats, which are implied or otherwise
· Intimidation
· Sexual innuendo
· Harassment
· Unwelcome attention
· Attempted or actual assaults - spitting that makes contact with the body is classed as an assault
· Damage to property
· Employees filmed, photographed or recorded in the workplace or working off-site, without their express consent
· Threats made in writing or via email
· Information about employees posted on social media e.g. face book

The list is not exhaustive. Any other incident that makes an employee feel uncomfortable, vulnerable or threatened must be reported. Incidents where the person’s identity is not known should also be reported.

Lack of participation or co-operation in an interview is not covered by the UCB policy and falls under primary JSA/UC/ESA legislation only.

Thanks, it does seem like double standards thou from these people at the DWP. "Threats, Harassment, and Abuse". How many time have I heard these words used to describe the treatment from some work-roaches, to there clients!  Evil or Very Mad

Also I noticed its says on the UCB list:
"Employees filmed, photographed or recorded in the workplace or working off-site, without their express consent".. I thought you where allowed to record any meeting for your own personal use (nothing to fear nothing to hide?)? pirat
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Re: Work and Health Programme part 2

Post by Caker on Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:18 pm



Twisted Evil


Last edited by Caker on Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:19 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
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Re: Work and Health Programme part 2

Post by Caker on Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:22 pm

UCB is a topic in it's own right. I suggest that a new thread is started, to continue the discussion of UCB.
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Re: Work and Health Programme part 2

Post by ABC on Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:31 am

Caker wrote:UCB is a topic in it's own right. I suggest that a new thread is started, to continue the discussion of UCB.

Is it possible for you as admin move the relevant posts to a suitably headed new topic so that it doesn't distract from the main theme of this thread otherwise the useful UCB information gets lost in the middle of this long topic?
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Re: Work and Health Programme part 2

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