How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

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How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

Post by Non Deficere on Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:22 am

I am in the process of researching all the info I can find.

If anyone is willing to assist, that would be very helpful.  Smile

http://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t2639-natural-migration-to-full-service-universal-credit-in-a-fsuc-area

Edit:
IB JSA claimants being told by Jobcentre workers that blocks of claimants have to move to UC!!

rightsnet wrote:We’ve just seen a client who is being pressured to close her IB JSA claim by workers she named at Bridport Job centre.

She was told that they are moving ‘blocks of claimants’ to UC, and everyone has to claim UC.

Client has very limited computer skills, presented as being vulnerable and very distressed by being pressured to claim UC.

See attached drawn up by someone at the Jobcentre and given to her i.e. close JSA claim, claim UC and reference to an advance payment.

https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/12851/


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Re: How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

Post by Non Deficere on Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:36 am

In progress



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Re: How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

Post by Non Deficere on Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:43 am



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Re: How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

Post by Non Deficere on Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:49 am

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Re: How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

Post by Non Deficere on Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:56 am

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Re: How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

Post by Non Deficere on Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:03 am

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Re: How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

Post by Non Deficere on Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:55 pm



Last edited by Non Deficere on Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:10 am; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : Add info.)
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Re: How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

Post by Non Deficere on Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:21 pm

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Re: How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

Post by Non Deficere on Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:20 am

Template letter:




A FOI response is due in the next few days.


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Re: How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

Post by ABC on Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:54 pm

This is the sort of thing I suspected would happen.

Also I presume that if they "unwittingly"  Mad  carry out some action against the claimant that would automatically transfer them to FSUC then even though the claimant is innocent the subsequent transfer to FSUC would proceed nonetheless?

For example they might raise a (demonstrably false) doubt against your claim. You may be able to fight the doubt but would it irrevocably trigger a transfer to FSUC? That might be a bad example but there must be some unwarranted action they could impose that would automatically force a transfer to FSUC.

Excellent info by the way ND. Thanks for starting the topic.

Edit: having thought about this for all of five minutes I can't see that there is any argument against the Jobcentre migrating any legacy benefit claimant to UC at a time of their choosing. There's nothing that I am aware of that in effect says you may not migrate a claimant on legacy benefit to UC until and unless they hit one of the rules that forces natural migration. So with regard to the blocks of claimants being told they have to migrate in the example above I can't see that they have any argument against it. Am I wrong (I dearly want to be wrong beecause it's worrying for me if I'm not  Embarassed )?
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Re: How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

Post by Non Deficere on Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:59 am

ABC wrote:This is the sort of thing I suspected would happen.

Also I presume that if they "unwittingly"  Mad  carry out some action against the claimant that would automatically transfer them to FSUC then even though the claimant is innocent the subsequent transfer to FSUC would proceed nonetheless?

For example they might raise a (demonstrably false) doubt against your claim. You may be able to fight the doubt but would it irrevocably trigger a transfer to FSUC? That might be a bad example but there must be some unwarranted action they could impose that would automatically force a transfer to FSUC.

Excellent info by the way ND. Thanks for starting the topic.

Edit: having thought about this for all of five minutes I can't see that there is any argument against the Jobcentre migrating any legacy benefit claimant to UC at a time of their choosing. There's nothing that I am aware of that in effect says you may not migrate a claimant on legacy benefit to UC until and unless they hit one of the rules that forces natural migration. So with regard to the blocks of claimants being told they have to migrate in the example above I can't see that they have any argument against it. Am I wrong (I dearly want to be wrong beecause it's worrying for me if I'm not  Embarassed )?

The legislation requires that claimants can only be migrated (ordered) to make a UC claim via a legally notified notice:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/718579/uc-transitional-regs-2018.pdf

Claimants who report a change of circumstances that no longer entitles them to claim legacy benefit in a UCFS area are automatically transferred to UC via the natural migration rules, which are complex.   Sad

ESA claimants who fail their WCA are also affected and can lose their Transitional Protection rights.  I have not explored this to any great extent, because none of my friends/family have been affected at this time.   There are some excellent forums, blogs and Facebook pages to support people claiming ESA etc.

Edit:

The first complaint is in progress.

DWP has a duty to get things right, so it must follow that any errors are rectified.
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Re: How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

Post by Non Deficere on Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:01 am

The FOI request I have been following has not been answered.

Mmm.... delaying tactics?!

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/natural_migration_to_universal_c

I believe an internal review has been requested!
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Re: How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

Post by ABC on Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:48 pm

Non Deficere wrote:The legislation requires that claimants can only be migrated (ordered) to make a UC claim via a legally notified notice:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/718579/uc-transitional-regs-2018.pdf

Indeed but assuming they actually do it legally, i.e. present the claimant with the necessary legal notice, then there is nothing to stop them migrating any claimant at any time, not just because the claimant has had a change of circumstances. Is that right?

And if that is right would they have to give a reason for forcing a migration - I'm guessing they wouldn't.
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Re: How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

Post by Non Deficere on Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:12 pm

ABC wrote:
Non Deficere wrote:The legislation requires that claimants can only be migrated (ordered) to make a UC claim via a legally notified notice:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/718579/uc-transitional-regs-2018.pdf

Indeed but assuming they actually do it legally, i.e. present the claimant with the necessary legal notice, then there is nothing to stop them migrating any claimant at any time, not just because the claimant has had a change of circumstances. Is that right?

And if that is right would they have to give a reason for forcing a migration - I'm guessing they wouldn't.

Hi ABC,

Going off topic a little.

Managed migration has been delayed.  It would be interesting to find out how claimants will be selected.

http://policyinpractice.co.uk/policy-in-practice-submits-evidence-to-the-universal-credit-managed-migration-inquiry/

At present, I am concerned about those claimants who are being naturally migrated wrongly.
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Re: How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

Post by Sara on Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:26 pm

Hi, i recently became a member but had been popping by as a guest on a daily basis for approximately 1yr during which time ur website has been an invaluable source of imformation in assisting myself the claimant with JSA dispute that may be relevant to the above subject u r currently researching & if so I'd be happy to assist with ur enquiries. The following content is based solely on my own personal circumstances & is in no way intended to give advice throughout. I shall endeavour to explain in brief the history of my ongoing JSA dispute by providing only the details that I think r relevant to ur research. I have been claiming JSA as a single parent far longer than I care to admit during which time I have not been subject to punishment via sanction or other processes used by Dwp or third party providers that would determine the outcome of any new decision being made should the need arise. I am in no way legally qualified but I have educated myself to be well informed of Dwp procedures or should I say underhanded tactics currently being used to move claimants on legacy benefits in a FSUC area to UC either unwittingly or by using downright illegal practices that leave the claimant with no choice but to move onto UC. Learning from my own experience although I have not until now come across block migration it is not uncommon that without good reason or a change of circumstances that would instigate migration upon interview claimants r being advised regardless of wot benefit they r on ESA, JSA, IS that they r now in FSUC & therefore must do as requested for the immediate migration to UC. Claimants who have been forced onto UC using this method r not being transferred using any such set out natural migration process but in allowing such r agreeing & unbeknowingly giving their consent to voluntarily move to UC & of 2 cases I've had personal connection with the directions thereafter r exactly the same process for anyone making a new claim for UC. I have not known of anyone who has received the direction to migrate verbally that has actually disputed the move & in both (ESA) the cases I know of neither were protected by any transitional provisions that would be applied according to their circumstances had they naturally migrated to UC, Needless to say this caused all sorts of problems through no fault of the claimants including the complete closure of one UC account with any opportunity they had to challenge the errors were on every occasion met with YOU AGREED & I guess they did therefore leaves no argument! However that approach to move claimants on legacy benefits onto UC is the lesser of two evils as a more common route is for Dwp for any reason or no reason that would legally warrant such is to completely close a claim & the only option in FSUC is start new claim!! This action & the unlawful decision by Dwp to close my JSA claim last yr is a direct result off my current situation that's see's myself & 2 children being evicted from our home that we have occupied for 12yrs where throughout this time have excellent record of tenancy renting from private landlord who has been left with no choice but to evict as HB has not been paid during the 12months I have been in dispute with Dwp. I learn from my own research that it takes very little in order for the Dwp to close a claim & often hear that a sanction will action closure of current claim. My own circumstances regarding closure of JSA claim something I have never received notification that would inform me of this & was only brought to my attention via complaints resolution manager who I had approached with my concerns regarding the lenghly time that was taking the DM issuing MR notice in response to my MR request that was required or so it was said to be in a letter received on 23/11/17 for a failure to attend on 10/11/17 of which they were fully aware of as they had been notified prior to the FTA that I was subject to emergency admission to hospital where I remained as an inpatient of intensive care unit in critical condition. However what I'd like to put across is in the months thereafter I followed process as set out in letter dated 17/11/17 that clearly stated ' that JSA would not be paid blah blah for FTA' followed by wot I should do if I disagreed with this decision & that's exactly wot I done submitted mr on time with necessary documents( hospital discharge letter) that was received with a signature on 29/11/17 at Dwp office. This was an unecessary task as it would be ignored left on the shelf in that Dwp had never the intention to look at the decision again & provide MR notice as I would find out sometime later my claim had been closed on 27/10/17. Ok my actual point was I have seen several claimants sanctioned for not doing enough to find work & by pure luck whilst challenging such decision have by pure chance found out that their claim has been closed & then verbally informed that the only option is to open new claim. This in itself means there is no point to challenge any decision as due to the lengthy time this process currently takes & u r in the knowledge that ur claim has closed u r likely to have made a UC claim therefore any sanctionable period can no longer be challenged once u open UC therefore any benefits including HB/CTC payable should u continue with MR & regardless of outcome of decision u receive in subsequent MR notice albeit overturned in ur favour no payment will be made & I cannot find anything anywhere that would allow the claimant to legally challenge this fairly without increasing the hardship that the claimant has already been subjected to. I'm sure this is DWP law that has been written in their own sneaky way.
Sorry if I have over complicated things, I'd be happy to answer any questions that arise from the content of my ramblings. .
May I take this opportunity to thank you once again for the invaluable source of imformation ur website has provided me with & for which I am truly grateful.
Kind regards Sara

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Re: How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

Post by Non Deficere on Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:03 pm

Hi Sara

Welcome to the forum.  I am pleased you found the information here helpful  Smile

Many thanks for sharing your experiences.  Your story sounds very familiar to me, particularly from certain central London Jobcentres.

I am so sorry to read about your plight, is there anything I/we can do to help you?

When DWP make mistakes they must put matters right within a reasonable time.
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Re: How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

Post by Sara on Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:57 am

Thank you for your concern, in my own plight I consider myself one of the lucky few as I have the mental ability to cope with Dwp. I would however be extremely grateful if u could suggest any legal hosing or welfare person that could possibly assist with immediate intervention with regards to pending eviction.
As the saying goes 'sometimes u can't c the wood for the trees' & as such having focused on Dwp dispute I literally have only been made aware of local authority who on more than one occasion recently fobbed me of regarding assisting to prevent the eviction have not only breached their own duty of care obligations but also Goverment legislation 2002 homelessness act.
Such is life
Saea
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Re: How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

Post by Non Deficere on Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:37 pm

Hi Sara

I would need your location.

You can pm it to me if you prefer.
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Re: How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

Post by Sara on Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:39 pm

Hi Dover Kent Not sure how to pm


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Re: How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

Post by Non Deficere on Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:50 pm

Sara, please delete your post code.
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Re: How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

Post by Sara on Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:51 pm

Done
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Re: How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

Post by Non Deficere on Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:06 pm



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Re: How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

Post by ABC on Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:01 pm

Non Deficere wrote:At present, I am concerned about those claimants who are being naturally migrated wrongly.

Just shooting the breeze here ND but what exactly is your concern?

From your link:

Migration notice
44.—(1) The Secretary of State may, at any time, issue a notice (“a migration notice”) to
a person who is entitled to an award of an existing benefit—
(a) informing the person that all awards of an existing benefit to which they are
entitled are to terminate and that they will need to make a claim for universal
credit; and
(b) specifying a day (“the deadline day”) by which a claim for universal credit must be
made.
(2) The migration notice may contain such other information as the Secretary of State
considers appropriate.
(3) The deadline day must not be within the period of one month beginning with the day
on which the migration notice is issued
.

So we've established that anyone can be migrated forcibly, with no explanation given, as long as the migration notice has been issued and the claimant has been given one month in which to apply for UC. Is it just that you (understandably) have an issue with claimants being incorrectly mandated by not being given the correct migration notice and/or the one month window in which to apply or is it something else as well? By the way, what's their definition of "one month"?
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Re: How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

Post by Non Deficere on Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:56 pm


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Re: How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

Post by ABC on Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:12 pm

Non Deficere wrote:DWP staff can basically do what they like.

Precisely, because the legislation (in the link you provided and highlighted in my previous post) supports the Jobcentre moving claimants to UC by managed migration at a time of their choosing and without having to give a reason why they are doing so. As long as they issue the correct migration notice and give at least one month's notice to claim UC, they can, as you say, do as they like (when they like).

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Re: How to avoid being naturally migrated to Full Service Universal Credit in error

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