opening an account on find a job

This morning the Find a Job site became active.

All I was required to do was give an email address and a password.
No other details or information was asked for.

They sent a confirmation email to the email address that I gave them.

1. Search for jobs


2. Your activity


3. upload Your CVs


4. Your email alerts


5. Your favourite jobs


6. Manage account


Simple enough, nothing to it. No demands made, mandatory or voluntary.

Messed around on the ‘Search for jobs’ option. Well, its only the first day.

as you will see by the pics below some of those job search criteria does not match your field of expertise and i cant see the need for them being included within your jobsearches




the site privacy info
cookie policy
acceptable use policy

all on this page

https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t1682p25-dwp-signs-adzuna-for-universal-jobmatch

Acceptable use policy
By using our site you accept these terms

Note the very first condition:

Please read these terms of use and corresponding documents carefully. By using the ‘Find a job’ service you confirm that you accept these terms and that you agree to comply with them. If you do not agree to these terms, you must stop using the site and the online content immediately.

for techies info of the sites cookie scan

https://webcookies.org/cookies/findajob.dwp.gov.uk/15581462

seen_cookie_message

  Type: HTTP Cookie
  Domain: findajob.dwp.gov.uk
  This cookie expires in 13 days
  httpOnly This cookie can be read by client-side JavaScript which might increase chances of stealing it in case of a successful Cross-Side Scripting attack. It's recommended that cookies storing authentication-related session token are protected by the flag » More...
  Size: 3 bytes

and these below

https://static.findajob.dwp.gov.uk/js/dist/jobseeker/Jobseeker.bundle-0.0.79-vsn.css
https://static.findajob.dwp.gov.uk/js/ie.polyfill.base64.min.js
https://static.findajob.dwp.gov.uk/js/jquery.autocomplete.js
https://static.findajob.dwp.gov.uk/css/govuk/govuk-template.css
https://static.findajob.dwp.gov.uk/js/jquery.min.js
https://static.findajob.dwp.gov.uk/js/dist/jobseeker/Jobseeker.bundle-0.0.79-vsn.js
https://static.findajob.dwp.gov.uk/css/govuk/fonts.css
https://static.findajob.dwp.gov.uk/images/govuk-crest.png
https://static.findajob.dwp.gov.uk/images/icon-pointer.png
https://www.googletagmanager.com/gtm.js?id=GTM-MJXHHRC

find a job can be fully sanctionable if you allow access to it by connecting to it via an iad device or by providing printouts

if you was to provide dwp with direct access to your account as the account is fully trackable

log ins
what jobs you have applied for
uploaded cvs
ip addresses used
and a whole lot more

as goes for non direct access you need to use screen grab or windows 7 snipping tool
never screen print as this provides exactly the same info as allowing them access to your account.

however screen grab or windows snipping tool then edit in a photo program or paint program on a pc as thats a different matter altogether as all you need to do is blacken them or whiten them so they cannot be read before you print them off via your pc

zoomed in further on pics

you can see date and time stamp on applied data




what you need to do is edit or blank out the dates and times on the above pages of info if dwp advisors ask for print out screen shots

if you do print outs at dwp they have direct access to these printouts and it may cause a sanction if not done properly

all foi requests so far to do with find a job site

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/new_find_a_job_website_and_sanct

Will new 'find a job' website jobs scraping site allow Jobcentre coaches to log in &see benefit claimants Activity under any situation? https://youtu.be/bf6ZBHh64Cw?t=42s (View the job searches, job ads and job applications) https://youtu.be/bf6ZBHh64Cw?t=49s
Can coaches make it a benefit requirement to print out the Activity records, for JSA or UC claimers? What sanctions exist for refusing to provide a print out of the Activity and show it to a Coach? Will a coach have the right to keep a copy of the Activity record under any situation?

Will 'find a job' include Jobs ADs based on scraping third party websites, like on the Adzuna website? If a benefit claimants refuses to use 'find a job' because they do not want to see Third Party Job ADS can they get sanction if mandated or expected to use the site by a Coach or
in a claimant commitment?

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/find_a_job_cookies_online_identi

Andrew Wilson 14 May 2018
Unknown

Dear Department for Work and Pensions,

Dear Department for Work and Pensions,

Even when asked by you to create a 'Find a job' account and upload my CV as part of a JSA or transfer to UC claim, without a shadow of a doubt I will never accept 'Find a job' cookies on any DWP controlled device or any associated ISP at a DWP location or or other devices at a library, my home or anywhere else. I am not very happy for any JSA or UC claim to also be associated to my IP address or other online identifiers and for you to ask or expect me to share with you any 'Find a job' record of job applications I make or job search activity or saved jobs history if you
can force me to create an account, accept these cookies or upload my CV. So will you then suspend, disentitle or sanction any live in-payment JSA or transfer to UC claim I have due to not wanting to do what you may ask outlined above and why can you do this?

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/find_a_job_service_voluntary_or

Stephen Toy 14 May 2018
Unknown

Dear Department for Work and Pensions,

On the 14th May 2018 the Find-a-Job website, destined to replace the invasive and woeful Universal Jobmatch service, goes live and can be used by interested parties. My question is simple:

Will use of the new Find-a-Job service be voluntary or mandatory in respect to Universal Credit claimants even if such claimants do not consent voluntarily to have their activities on the website tracked on-line or have their personal data stored, manipulated, processed or used otherwise by Adzuna on behalf of the DWP?

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/adzunas_find_a_job_technology_jo

Adzuna's Find-A-Job technology: Jobcentre Work 'Coach' user account access and social security entitlement, disallowance and sanctions

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/find_a_job

S M Hall 9 May 2018
Delivered

Dear Department for Work and Pensions,

Is the new 'Find A Job' website a mandatory requirement for a claimant to make an account ?

Yours faithfully,

S M Hall

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/find_a_job_government_gateway_ac

Jo Walker 4 May 2018
Delivered

Dear Department for Work and Pensions,

With regard to the soon to be introduced Government Gateway 'Find a Job' service, can you please forward me a copy of the terms and conditions that users are obliged to sign to access the service.

Yours faithfully,

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/find_a_job_2

Dave Petter 9 May 2018
Delivered

Dear Department for Work and Pensions,

Please email me the information and guidance available to work coaches about the Find a job
service. Like or equal to the Jobmatch Toolkit

frank zolas questions has been answered

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/adzunas_find_a_job_technology_jo

The recorded information we hold that best answers your question about the type of access DWP and Jobcentre Work Coaches will have to claimant accounts can be found in the extract below from the Find a job Delivery Implementation Guide which says:

“DWP staff will not have access to view jobseeker accounts, CVs or activity/application history.”

thankyou frank for foi info

DWP ‘Find a job’ is mandatory for claimants? However, “DWP staff will not have access to view jobseeker accounts, CVs or activity/application history”

https://mrfrankzola.wordpress.com/2018/05/15/dwp-find-a-job-is-mandatory-for-claimants-however-dwp-staff-will-not-have-access-to-view-jobseeker-accounts-cvs-or-activity-application-history/

Hi, I’m new here.

In the FOI reply, the DWP’s position regarding whether it is allowed or not to opt-out of registering with FAJ or not allowing work coaches access to it is ambiguous.

The FOI reply says:

“DWP staff will not have access to view jobseeker accounts, CVs or activity/application history.”

To be a an unambiguous reply it should say:

“DWP staff will not have access to view jobseeker accounts, CVs or activity/application history if DWP staff ask for it and jobseekers refuse to give it.”

Or

“DWP staff currently have no access to view jobseeker accounts, CVs or activity/application history, but if DWP staff ask for it, jobseekers must give it.”

If the FOI reply had been one of the two answers, things would be much clearer.

osris wrote:Hi, I’m new here.

In the FOI reply, the DWP’s position regarding whether it is allowed or not to opt-out of registering with FAJ or not allowing work coaches access to it is ambiguous.

The FOI reply says:

“DWP staff will not have access to view jobseeker accounts, CVs or activity/application history.”

To be a an unambiguous reply it should say:

“DWP staff will not have access to view jobseeker accounts, CVs or activity/application history if DWP staff ask for it and jobseekers refuse to give it.”

Or

“DWP staff currently have no access to view jobseeker accounts, CVs or activity/application history, but if DWP staff ask for it, jobseekers must give it.”

If the FOI reply had been one of the two answers, things would be much clearer.

This is one of the things we will find out eventually. I have learned the hard way that DWP's policy or even the law doesn't matter for decision makers. Now I do wonder if it is even technical possible for work coaches to view someones FaJ like they did with UJM.

Jara wrote:

osris wrote:Hi, I’m new here.

In the FOI reply, the DWP’s position regarding whether it is allowed or not to opt-out of registering with FAJ or not allowing work coaches access to it is ambiguous.

The FOI reply says:

“DWP staff will not have access to view jobseeker accounts, CVs or activity/application history.”

To be a an unambiguous reply it should say:

“DWP staff will not have access to view jobseeker accounts, CVs or activity/application history if DWP staff ask for it and jobseekers refuse to give it.”

Or

“DWP staff currently have no access to view jobseeker accounts, CVs or activity/application history, but if DWP staff ask for it, jobseekers must give it.”

If the FOI reply had been one of the two answers, things would be much clearer.

This is one of the things we will find out eventually. I have learned the hard way that DWP's policy or even the law doesn't matter for decision makers. Now I do wonder if it is even technical possible for work coaches to view someones FaJ like they did with UJM.

Many people have swerved UJM via disputed Jobseeker Agreements/JSA Claimant Commitments. I think it will be easier with FaJ, because it does not offer a better service than other aggregator sites.

DWP staff cannot access a FaJ account.

Jara wrote:

osris wrote:Hi, I’m new here.

In the FOI reply, the DWP’s position regarding whether it is allowed or not to opt-out of registering with FAJ or not allowing work coaches access to it is ambiguous.

The FOI reply says:

“DWP staff will not have access to view jobseeker accounts, CVs or activity/application history.”

To be a an unambiguous reply it should say:

“DWP staff will not have access to view jobseeker accounts, CVs or activity/application history if DWP staff ask for it and jobseekers refuse to give it.”

Or

“DWP staff currently have no access to view jobseeker accounts, CVs or activity/application history, but if DWP staff ask for it, jobseekers must give it.”

If the FOI reply had been one of the two answers, things would be much clearer.

This is one of the things we will find out eventually. I have learned the hard way that DWP's policy or even the law doesn't matter for decision makers. Now I do wonder if it is even technical possible for work coaches to view someones FaJ like they did with UJM.

That’s my worry too—that decision makers will ignore the law even if it did say that you could opt out of giving access to FAJ.

Non Deficere wrote:Many people have swerved UJM via disputed Jobseeker Agreements/JSA Claimant Commitments.  I think it will be easier with FaJ, because it does not offer a better service than other aggregator sites.

DWP staff cannot access a FaJ account.

I hope you are right.

as reference for faj it all depends on the claimant on what they do and what they use to fight dwp

many have taken a sanction to prove there is other ways around it from here and also on the other site as well

you can have a look at these

https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t10-corroboration-of-job-search-evidence

https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t12-jobseeker-direction-access-to-universal-jobmatch-account

https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t21-threat-of-sanction-for-failure-to-provide-corroborate-work-search-evidence

for the cc side of it however it could be different

https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t197-mandatory-reconsideration-appeal-work-search-doubt

just remember its down to you and how much your willing to take a sanction to prove your case

there is also access to your private email account via jcp iad device dosnt mean that they can do as much as dosnt mean that a jobcoach can hover other your shoulder when your logging into your account or demand printouts there and then from the iad device

its up to you if you refuse or print at home your jobsearch evidence and how you provide it is within the terms and conditions of your providing evidence to your jobcoach dosnt mean your jobcoach can demand that you only provide digital only either

Relevant information to use when challenging a requirement to create a FAJ account:

05 Work Search Review
Find a job or other jobsites
1.  As part of making use of the resources available to them to look for work, we can
reasonably expect most claimants to make best use of Find a job or other
jobsites.  
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/479339/response/1158772/attach/html/6/Annex%202.pdf.html
Content*

Find a job can be accessed from the GOV.UK website and can be used 24 hours a
day, 7 days a week.

•  for a summary of Find a job – see ‘Find a job overview’ below
•  if a claimant has not created an account and uploaded a CV in Find a job, or if
more appropriate another jobsite – see ‘Claimant has not created an account
and uploaded a CV in Find a job or if more appropriate another jobsite below

Claimant has not created an account and uploaded a CV in Find a job or if
more appropriate another jobsite  

Most claimants looking for work and, where appropriate, those preparing for work will
be expected to create an account and upload a CV in Find a job or if more
appropriate another jobsite. If they have not already done this voluntarily, it will
usually be included as a requirement in the Claimant Commitment.

Mandating a claimant to create an account and upload a CV in Find a job or if
more appropriate, another jobsite

The WC uses the Claimant Commitment to mandate a claimant to create an account
and upload a CV in Find a job or if more appropriate, another jobsite. To do this the
WC:  
 
1.  Creates a work preparation activity on the Work Services Platform (WSP) for
example:
“I will create an account and upload a CV in Find a job as agreed with my
work coach. I will use (the public library/my computer/relatives computer/my
mobile etc.). If I am unable to do this I will contact my work coach to gain
access to public computer in a Universal Credit outlet and I will complete this
by (dd/mm/yyyy).”  
See Work preparation activities - recording requirements on the Work
v1.3 Universal Credit Knowledge Management

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/479339/response/1158772/attach/html/10/Annex%206.pdf.html

The requirement to use Find a job is a regular work search activity and should not be
recorded as a work preparation activity. See Find a job and Work Services Platform.
When completed, the time and effort taken to undertake work preparation and one-
off specific work search activities will count towards the claimant’s overall weekly
work search hours.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/479339/response/1158772/attach/html/11/Annex%207.pdf.html

Why create an account?
You can search for jobs without setting up an account. But setting up an account means you can:
• apply for jobs
• upload CVs
• keep a record of your job searches and applications
• use it to discuss your work search activity if you’re claiming Universal Credit or Jobseeker’s Allowance
• create email alerts
• save jobs to apply for later

https://findajob.dwp.gov.uk

I have not seen any employer confidentials on the new site yet.

People can apply directly to those employers who provide their company details without creating an account.

The strongest argument is that you can find sufficient suitable jobs via other jobsites and vacancies from FaJ will scraped by the aggregator sites, such as Monster and Indeed.

But does it not all still boil down to us refusing the terms and conditions of find a job afaik that piece of law is clear.

dboy wrote:But does it not all still boil down to us refusing the terms and conditions of find a job afaik that piece of law is clear.

I think the question is, which terms are unreasonable and is it reasonable to refuse the 'acceptable use terms' of any jobsite.

An interesting case:
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:_pCw9uCDtAIJ:https://www.ukvatadvice.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/TC04537-NEIL-GARROD.pdf+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ua&client=opera

the problem with most jobsites is they collect info on any person its also the same with job agencys

faj is different to a degree for the moment

with monster it was a sanction tool and dwp wanted full access to your account in end ico stepped in and i presume that a tick box was added to allow them access or not

the argument is plainly at the jcp roach (officers) door on there whim of you joining any site or there demand to access your accounts to prove your jobsearch

I believe the question is more on the lines is the roach being unreasonable in there demands that you join a certain site that they want you on than to use other job websites as like within ujm

jcp use the reference in the jobseekers best interest in using the site but that isnt always true its up to you to prove this is not the case

theres 2 topics one is within jobseeker help section

the other was all information gathered on find a job id placed it into the lounge section of the site

https://respectfulbenefits.forumotion.com/t1682-dwp-signs-adzuna-for-universal-jobmatch

‘Find a job’ – “Claimants cannot be mandated to use the Find a Job website specifically”

Headline: “Claimants cannot be mandated to use the Find a Job website specifically.”
Key words: “specifically” and “use” [1]

“Find a job or other jobsites
1. As part of making use of the resources available to them to look for work, we can reasonably expect most claimants to make best use of Find a job or other jobsites.”
Source: DWP ‘05 Work Search Review‘ – accessed 15/5/18 [emphasis added] Cited in ‘‘Find a job’ is mandatory for claimants?‘ – “Posted on May 15, 2018“

With DWP it is always worth being cautious, even so many claimants will welcome this clarification.

https://mrfrankzola.wordpress.com/2018/05/29/find-a-job-claimants-cannot-be-mandated-to-use-the-find-a-job-website-specifically/

Non Deficere wrote:I think the question is, which terms are unreasonable and is it reasonable to refuse the 'acceptable use terms' of any jobsite.

I seem to remember we did this one to death several years ago with UJM's T&Cs, later rebranded to "acceptable use policy" in a lame attempt to hide the fact that they were T&Cs!

Ultimately it would not be acceptable (to the DWP) to refuse to use FaJ on the basis of not accepting its acceptable use policy and it would be a short road to a tribunal as the only way to resolve the matter if you did. Even then it'd end up with a judgement that only applies in that specific case and the claimant is back to square one.

And if you're signed up to several other job websites, in which you have obviously accepted their T&Cs of use, it'd be difficult to argue as to what specifically in FaJ's "acceptable use policy" makes it any different to those other sites. I think they've got it sewn up pretty nicely. Unless of course you are being mandated to use FaJ and there is easily accessible usage data from it that the work coach can access without your permission, I suppose that's a totally different ball game.

Seems all a moot point really after the recent FOI requests faj is not a big issue after all.

All due to GDPR which also put the nail in the coffin for UJM.

I would say it would be worthwhile using the site signed up or not as I presume the work coaches will also use it to find vacancies.

I suspect claimants will be mandated to create a faj account by use of in there best interests to be using the site.

abc fought this well on um used every reference that they was using the better sites and didnt need to make another account up

but in end still got mandated to open an account

there is one point im going to have to point out and it all depends on

Day One Conditionality in JSA

[1] “Claimants cannot be mandated to use the Find a Job website specifically.
However, under Day One Conditionality in JSA, claimants are asked to
create an account and upload a Curriculum Vitae (CV) in Find a job or
another jobsite when they make a new claim. This requires claimants to
have a suitable email address and to upload a CV to their Find a Job or another jobsite account. Where a claimant has not done this, their Work
Coach can mandate them to do so.

Universal Jobmatch was never mandatory.  JSA claimants could be mandated in particular circumstances via a Jobseeker Direction, Universal credit claimants via their UC claimant commitment. Find a Job is not mandatory either.

New claimants subjected to "day one conditionality" may not know much about on-line job searching and will usually accept the work search and preparation proposals within their CC.

Mandatory reconsiderations and Appeals have overturned the requirement to use Universal Jobmatch.  

The strongest argument is, that you can find more than enough suitable jobs (with evidence) on other more appropriate jobsites.  Employers are verified by the FaJ site, so the security argument may no longer be applicable.

It will be interesting to find out how many people successfully challenge a mandate to use FaJ.

So. I went to sign on this morning and all has changed. My usual work roach is apparently on "sick leave" and they're not sure when she'll return. I don't believe that for a second, I think she's been moved to another area due to her being rather dozy at the best of times! When my previous jobcentre was closed down most of the staff were transferred to where I am now, but all on a separate floor, now it appears they've had a reshuffle as I recognised a few faces from the last place on the floor where I usually sign on. The roach I saw today I'd never had seen before, she's just here "temporarily" apparently.

As usual, when sat waiting to be called I try to listen in to any conversations going on between roach and claimant. The one I caught most was a particularly nasty piece of work who I recognised from my last jobcentre and had a couple of run-ins before. She's your typical bullying condescending roach we see far too much of these days and the first thing I heard her utter to the poor victim sat before her was: "You NEED to register with Find a Job", to which the claimant acquiesced. I felt that little bit of rage build inside of me and so wanted to butt in and tell her that she is a fecking liar, but of course that would just end with me being chucked out. I felt almost sad I wasn't seeing her next because I would have felt the need to correct her had she tried the same bullshit. Not that the one I saw today didn't need correcting....

As I've stated before, I use(d) UJM just for recording my jobsearch activities, and nothing else. I never applied for jobs on there (which any roach could see on my UJM as jobs applied for showed as zilch), and this was accepted long ago as I used other jobsites. She booked my next appointment, with yet another roach I'm unfamiliar with, and didn't mention FaJ. So, I said to her that as UJM will be dead at my next appointment I will bring printouts of jobs applied for on my email account. This is when she brought up FaJ, asking if I'd registered. I told her I had, I told her I wasn't impressed with it so far, and will stick with my usual jobsites.

She then mentioned that FaJ would be better as there's an option like on UJM to put in manually your jobsearch activity, and DWP staff can access the account. So... I had to correct her on this misinformation she was giving me, pointing out there isn't that option like on UJM, and also how would she access my account unless she had my password? She quickly changed tack and said I could provide screenshots of my activity on FaJ. I stated that wasn't the best way to provide my jobsearch activity because it won't show jobs I've applied for on Indeed, CV-Library etc, just my activity on that one particular site. I don't think she was "trained" for the response she got from me, so I said once again that next time I sign on I will provide a printout of jobs applied for on my email account, which should be acceptable. There was an audible sigh as she said "OK, that's fine" and I was on my way.

TF,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences about your sign on today.

I doubt any of the JC staff have even read the new policy document in relation to FaJ.

Organised chaos as usual!  

For those people who want to dodge FAJ be prepared with FOI evidence as well as other information here.  If you don't have a printer you can show the information on-line at the Jobcentre.

I may develop a template if/when required!

That's easier said then done, as my wc has said she's not intrested in any foi I show her.
Shouting if I spent less time finding out about rules and regulations I would have a job by now.

ive had that one from the roach catwoman

if the roach wont except it then request for the manager infront of the adviser and hand them to them clearly showing the manager of the jcp want is within an foi by informed info via the foi requests

then ask the manager if they are also agreeing with the advisers stance that they are refusing to adhere to the informed foi requests info

wait for the answer once you get a good result let go other than that explain that you can take it up with the area manager instead