Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

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Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

Post by El-dudeareno on Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:25 am

Back to the old Work_Fare scheme then.... Evil or Very Mad


"But now we learn Leeds Labour Council is running this compulsory scheme.

Personal work support programme

If you are claiming Jobseeker’s Allowance and have been claiming Council Tax support for 26 weeks or more, you will be offered a place on the personal work support programme.

You will have to complete this programme to keep receiving Council Tax support unless you’re part of one of the exempt or protected groups (PDF 1.2MB)​​.

You will be required to complete five review appointments with one of our employment advisors who are able to support all aspects of looking for work which includes:

Help to update your CV
Advice and support for applying for vacancies online
Advice on how to find the type of work you are looking for
The latest job vacancy information
Free access to our computers
Help with any health, money, benefit or housing concerns that you may have"



If I could find the time, with my 35x hrs job seeking a week and the extra time I have to spend on the Work & Health Program aswell as this scheme. How will people have any time to do anything else.... cyclops

https://intensiveactivity.wordpress.com/2018/02/23/compulsory-employment-schemes-for-jobseekers-claiming-council-tax-support/
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Re: Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

Post by Caker on Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:37 pm

......I reckon going on this spurious programme can be counted towards your 35 hour week Wink
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Re: Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

Post by Absolut on Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:34 am

Reading through the documents I note the words used are "offer" and "invite" with no link whatsoever to which law they are using to compel claimants to attend other than the threat that if you do not CTS will be withdrawn.

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Re: Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

Post by Caker on Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:21 am

I suspect this programme has no legal basis for mandation and the council are using misleading wording in their literature. I feel a FOI coming on.
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Re: Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

Post by El-dudeareno on Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:33 pm

Caker wrote:I suspect this programme has no legal basis for mandation and the council are using misleading wording in their literature. I feel a FOI coming on.


But will it stop theses Councils from trying to get "something for nothing"!
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Re: Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

Post by Caker on Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:53 pm

......This FOI got a quick response but I cannot detect that the actual question has been answered.   confused



https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/mandatory_job_search_activity_fo#incoming-1118477
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Re: Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

Post by Admin on Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:31 pm

found a reference to it

22. The Personal Work Support Package

22.1 The package of support is :
a) provided by Leeds City Council
b) tailored to meet the individuals needs
c) agreed between the individual and the Community Engagement Officer
at Leeds City Council

22.2 The Personal Work Support Package may include the following
activities:
 Labour market overview
 Advice about employer expectations
 Careers Information Advice & Guidance
 Signposting to further support e.g. ICT skills development, debt
management, budgeting and financial management, health, housing and
family support
 Smart job search techniques e.g. support with on- line searches
 Advice on employer recruitment techniques
 Additional activity with on line applications
 Support to increase the usage of Universal Job Match
 Guidance to make full use of social media sites

22.3 All participants must attend one to one appointments arranged with their
Community Engagement Officer who will work with them to;
 identify their individual support needs
 agree an individual support package and an attendance pattern
 set progress review dates

22.4 Engagement in the package requires that the participant:
a) Sign a document of acceptance of the Personal Work Support Package
and
b) Attends all appointments agreed by the Community Engagement Officer
and
c) Completes all tasks and activities agreed with the Community
Engagement Officer

22.5 Engagement in the Personal Work Support Package is deemed to have
commenced from the date that the Personal Work Support Package
acceptance of offer is signed.

22.6 Engagement is deemed to continue whilst ever the person continues to
meet the requirements in paragraph 22.4.
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Re: Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

Post by Caker on Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:06 pm

.....but we just cannot find out which law makes non participation sanctionable i.e. council tax benefit being withdrawn if the claimant does not participate.

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Re: Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

Post by Non Deficere on Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:51 pm

My understanding is, that each local authority administers its own Council Tax Reduction Scheme.
http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN06672

A person can make an appeal against the decision

Procedure by which a person may make an appeal against certain decisions of the authority
8.  A person who is aggrieved by a decision of the authority which affects—

(a)the person’s entitlement to a reduction under this scheme, or
(b)the amount of any reduction under this scheme,
may serve a written notice on the authority stating the matter by which, and the grounds on which, he is aggrieved.

9.  The authority must—

(a)consider the matter to which the notice relates;
(b)notify the aggrieved person in writing—
(i)that the ground is not well founded, giving reasons for that belief; or
(ii)that steps have been taken to deal with the grievance, stating the steps taken.
10.  Where, following notification under paragraph 9(b)(i) or (ii), the person is still aggrieved, or if the authority fails to notify the person aggrieved in accordance with paragraph 9(b) within two months of the service of his notice, he may appeal to a valuation tribunal under section 16 of the 1992 Act.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/wsi/2012/3144/schedule/12/made?view=plain

More information about the Personal work support programme in Leeds:
https://www.leeds.gov.uk/residents/council-tax-and-benefits/council-tax-support-for-jobseekers

Edit
FOI: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/mandatory_job_search_activity_fo#incoming-1118477
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Re: Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

Post by Absolut on Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:20 am

I can't adequately express how angry this makes me. It's bad enough being condescended to by a work roach without a snotty council worker doing it too.
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Re: Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

Post by Caker on Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:10 am

I wonder if any individual / group will challenge this.

It looks a dangerous precedent for access to concessions for public services.

Will your pharmacist be next in line and say that you will not be entitled to free prescriptions unless you participate in a scheme to get into work / more work / better paid work?

Could there be time limits for access to support in the future?

pale

It is worrying. I am not a scaremonger / devil's advocate. I am being pragmatic and hopefully opening a wider debate.
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Re: Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

Post by Non Deficere on Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:44 pm

Don't shoot the messenger!  Sad

Every authority has the right to protect the public purse.

From my experience, housing benefit welfare advisers are generally more helpful and supportive than DWP officials.

You can use this to your advantage when varying your claimant commitment!

Further, the scheme will not apply in every LA.

Edit

DWP can not enforce a CTS scheme.

The LA cannot breach the DPA


Last edited by Non Deficere on Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

Post by Admin on Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:24 pm

ive been naughty

its a dwp initiative test between leeds council and the dwp

its also enforced by the dwp

a person has to make another action plan with the council tax office ( a personal action plan )
attend 5 interview reviews
carry out all actions on there work plan  
provide there email address
provide there ujm login details

i was advised there is no law to provide the council tax office with your email address
this is consent based
done as the comment stated
was to make things quicker if you provide your email address to them but if you dont provide them with one they will still send out letters to you

i couldnt get any info from them about ujm login details it was a matter that had to be dealt with via the dwp as advised by the call center person as they didnt have any info in front of them

as goes for any info to do with the law i was not provided with any info

however was directed to a number as quoted welfare benefits section given by the call center

0113 3760452

Contact the Welfare Rights Unit. 0113 376 0452 (Monday to Thursday 9am to 4.30pm, alternate Wednesdays 10:15am to 4:30pm and Friday 9am to 4pm)

video reference

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Re: Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

Post by Caker on Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:54 pm

Non Deficere wrote:Don't shoot the messenger!  Sad

Every authority has the right to protect the public purse.

From my experience, housing benefit welfare advisers are generally more helpful and supportive than DWP officials.

You can use this to your advantage when varying your claimant commitment!

Further, the scheme will not apply in every LA.

Edit

DWP can not enforce a CTS scheme.

The LA cannot breach the DPA




It is good that HB welfare advisers are nicer than WC. It is nicer to have a genuinely helpful discussion than an interrogation/ confrontation situation with any of them.

Sorry if anyone thought I might be seeming paranoid. I am just feeling a bit vulnerable and my thoughts are in overdrive (it is me and not anyone else).
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Re: Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

Post by Caker on Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:58 pm

@ Admin
We rely on 'naughty' people to find info' so well done for your findings Smile
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Re: Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

Post by Non Deficere on Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:10 pm

Caker wrote:
Non Deficere wrote:Don't shoot the messenger!  Sad

Every authority has the right to protect the public purse.

From my experience, housing benefit welfare advisers are generally more helpful and supportive than DWP officials.

You can use this to your advantage when varying your claimant commitment!

Further, the scheme will not apply in every LA.

Edit

DWP can not enforce a CTS scheme.

The LA cannot breach the DPA




It is good that HB welfare advisers are nicer than WC. It is nicer to have a genuinely helpful discussion than an interrogation/ confrontation situation with any of them.

Sorry if anyone thought I might be seeming paranoid. I am just feeling a bit vulnerable and my thoughts are in overdrive (it is me and not anyone else).

I understand Caker!

Some people may, potentially be involved with the work program/work & health programme/other as well as a LA scheme in addition to complying with DWP conditionality! Crying or Very sad



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Re: Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

Post by El-dudeareno on Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:56 am

Non  Def: Some people may, potentially be involved with the work program/work & health programme/other as well as a LA scheme in addition to complying with DWP conditionality!  Crying or Very sad





Sorry I am getting confused here  Embarassed , if you join this LA scheme. Would you still be enrolled on the 'Work & Health' Program, as they seem very similar to me? Also on the video at 0:53, its says it last 'up to 26 week', which is shorter than the 15x months on the WHP? So it might be better to attend this scheme and get a reduced sentence than attending the WHP?   Basketball

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=53&v=X_VtRrbJLHg
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Re: Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

Post by Non Deficere on Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:44 pm

El-dudeareno wrote:Non  Def: Some people may, potentially be involved with the work program/work & health programme/other as well as a LA scheme in addition to complying with DWP conditionality!  Crying or Very sad


Sorry I am getting confused here  Embarassed , if you join this LA scheme. Would you still be enrolled on the 'Work & Health' Program, as they seem very similar to me? Also on the video at 0:53, its says it last 'up to 26 week', which is shorter than the 15x months on the WHP? So it might be better to attend this scheme and get a reduced sentence than attending the WHP?   Basketball

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=53&v=X_VtRrbJLHg

If you are referred to a DWP programme / scheme you MAY have to complete the LA scheme, which may be unlawful: Mad

If I take up the personal
work support package does
that mean I don’t need to
join the Jobcentre Plus work
programme?
No, the personal work support
package that we provide will be
focussed on providing you with the
support that you need to help you to
find work sooner. However you will
still need to join the Jobcentre Plus
work programme if you have not
moved into work by that time.
https://www.leeds.gov.uk/docs/Council%20Tax%20Support%20for%20JS_updated%20Dec2016.pdf


Last edited by Non Deficere on Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:57 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : correction)
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Re: Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

Post by El-dudeareno on Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:37 pm

 Non Def
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Re: Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

Post by jobberpw on Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:27 pm

Hi Everyone,

Been looking over this new bright idea of making people do courses just cos they happen to be recieving council tax support, am i reading this correct ?

If so, when does this pile of muck begin and in what areas are they rolling in out to,hopefully it will be as speedily as universal credit is. Very Happy

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Re: Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

Post by Admin on Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:57 pm

apparently its in a few arrears but each council is running a different sort of scheme to each other from what ive been reading

no council runs the same type of course.

to me its another you will conform to our demands of the dwp by one way or another

strange theres really not much info either on the ico system of what is consent based agreement
or much info about the scheme being run
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Re: Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

Post by Absolut on Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:29 am

It looks to me like they are quietly trying it out in a few places first to see if there is any sort of backlash. They are certainly going to run into the Equality Act. Their leaflet makes no mention of disabled JSA claimants who aren't in receipt of disability benefits (due to the lies of the WCA assessors, for example). Does that mean no disability benefit = no disability?  

I am imagining disabled JSA claimants making their way into their local council office and the workers there finally getting to see the reality of WCA private companies throwing ill people off ESA and onto JSA for no good reason.
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Re: Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

Post by Non Deficere on Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:56 pm

Absolut wrote:It looks to me like they are quietly trying it out in a few places first to see if there is any sort of backlash. They are certainly going to run into the Equality Act. Their leaflet makes no mention of disabled JSA claimants who aren't in receipt of disability benefits (due to the lies of the WCA assessors, for example). Does that mean no disability benefit = no disability?  

I am imagining disabled JSA claimants making their way into their local council office and the workers there finally getting to see the reality of WCA private companies throwing ill people off ESA and onto JSA for no good reason.

I concur Absolut!

I believe the LA in this instance is adopting mischievous methods to ensure people comply with a scheme that is not defined in law at this time!

JCP Jobclubs/group sessions etc. spring to mind.  Every notice issued by JCP was unlawful! Sad

However, the Parliamentary Ombudsman determined it was okay to lie to claimants if no harm/sanction was imposed!

DWP has no control over the Council Tax Scheme.  Sanctions only apply to JSA and UC awards.


Last edited by Non Deficere on Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:07 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : typo)
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Re: Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

Post by Brutus on Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:51 am


From memory I recall plans during the Thatcher years' about HB, letting Councils decide to recoup some by obliging the recipients to do some work for them.
Nothing came out of it, as the idea was a logistical and bureaucratic nightmare but it lingered on. Later on under the Labour the Flexible New Deal introduced some form of workfare.

Under the Tories, and IDS in particular, it took new impetus and the only reason I can imagine why the natural progression for local authorities to have become contractors of workfare (some did, but few) is the overall costs involved. Cost that the government did not want to shoulder.

In addition these lucrative contracts ended in the pockets of friends of whom-what-so-ever was in charge of welfare.

The same piratical objection is valid today. What benefits are accrued by any Local Authority to promote these schemes?

Some extreme ideologue councillors may support it but practically is expensive, complex and inefficient.

Of course it could be used as a means of further dismantling Social Housing, as many claimants would fail on the way and be evicted, but the means that the Government already employ to this end are already adequate.

Workfare (or any form of compulsory time consuming and humiliating "training") is punitive, controlling but, like slave labour, not efficient or in reality, economic.
Its former aspects make it interesting for the reactionaries as a means of breaking the spirits of the young, and potentially more reckless future opponents, and the provisions for the Housing costs for 18 to 21 year old under UC plus other obligations and restriction in their benefits, is probably derived from this malignant philosophy.

lastly is worth remembering that Council Taxes is one of the tax residents are obliged to pay but it is not covered entirely by benefits. This gap is intended to be a wedge that can be leveraged as an instrument of oppression.
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Re: Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

Post by Absolut on Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:14 am

reduce the number of duplicate and fraudulent ads

Only reduce the number? Not eliminate them altogether then? Laughing
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Re: Compulsory Employment “Schemes” for Jobseeker’s Claiming Council Tax Support.

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