You don't know the name of the employer you've applied to - how do you explain that to the Jobcentre?

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Re: You don't know the name of the employer you've applied to - how do you explain that to the Jobcentre?

Post by Caker on Wed May 17, 2017 6:42 pm

I would be surprised if there is anything in the law about recording notes, either clerically or electronically, of information you have provided voluntarily. I cannot confirm that, it is speculative.
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Re: You don't know the name of the employer you've applied to - how do you explain that to the Jobcentre?

Post by ABC on Wed May 17, 2017 7:06 pm

This isn't voluntary though is it because it's the information you must give (your job search) to prove you are ASE.
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Re: You don't know the name of the employer you've applied to - how do you explain that to the Jobcentre?

Post by Admin on Wed May 17, 2017 9:44 pm

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/335727/response/820143/attach/html/3/1918%20WDTK.pdf.html

As there is no legal requirement for a JSA claimant to allow Jobcentre Plus Work Coaches to keep or take copies of their jobsearch activity, no legislation or national guidance stating otherwise exists. However, to be helpful, you may find the extract copied below from Chapter 03 of the Universal Jobmatch Toolkit useful - paragraphs 82 to 94 explain how Jobcentre Plus staff may review the jobsearch activity of a JSA claimant: wrote:

theres also no need for them to be taking notes from your jobseach activity whilst they have it in there hand as it has always been hand it over they except it as its read upon and handed back to you

when you have passed your jobsearch history over to them give enough time say a min then ask them if your jobsearch is enough for the ase
if they say yes ask for it back as you want to put it away for storage or safe keeping
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Re: You don't know the name of the employer you've applied to - how do you explain that to the Jobcentre?

Post by ABC on Wed May 17, 2017 10:45 pm

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Re: You don't know the name of the employer you've applied to - how do you explain that to the Jobcentre?

Post by Admin on Wed May 17, 2017 11:45 pm

theres an interesting reference to what you are syaing via here

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/my_work_plan_booklet_guidance#incoming-964289

the reference is this link

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/397757/response/964289/attach/html/4/My%20Work%20Plan%20Booklet.pdf.html



as quoted theres alot of cloak and dagger with there comments

the booklet has always been provide by showing your jobsearch we also know give dwp access too ujm is pure bull

so why quote this comment in the same paragraph

no matter what i look at abc its the same its always provide by showing your jobsearch evidence

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/389594/response/947810/attach/html/3/FOI%20577%20Reply.pdf.html



other than that put an foi request in

for refusal to show email evidence it got sent to a dm

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/389747/response/947794/attach/html/3/FOI%20610%20Reply.pdf.html
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Re: You don't know the name of the employer you've applied to - how do you explain that to the Jobcentre?

Post by ABC on Thu May 18, 2017 8:13 am

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Re: You don't know the name of the employer you've applied to - how do you explain that to the Jobcentre?

Post by Absolut on Thu May 18, 2017 9:18 am

The paragraph that refers to "participate" has no footnote leading to any Act. I tracked down what it refers to and it is this:

10. The purposes of a work-focused interview are any or all of the following–
(a) assessing the claimant’s prospects for remaining in or obtaining work;
(b) assisting or encouraging the claimant to remain in or obtain work;
(c) identifying activities that the claimant may undertake that will make remaining in or obtaining work more likely;
(d) identifying training, educational or rehabilitation opportunities for the claimant which may make it more likely that the claimant will remain in or obtain work or be able to do so;
(e) identifying current or future work opportunities for the claimant that are relevant to the claimant’s needs and abilities.
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Re: You don't know the name of the employer you've applied to - how do you explain that to the Jobcentre?

Post by Mary_FV on Thu May 18, 2017 9:33 am

For clarity, showing job search evidence is a duty the claimant must fulfill to meet the the activity seeking condition. Evidence can be presented in a format of their choice.

The JC official's role is to check that the JSA/UC conditions are being fulfilled as well as providing people with support to meet the relevant conditions and improving employment prospects.

Taking notes is an expected function for anyone providing advice and guidance (GP, counselors, careers advisors etc.).

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Re: You don't know the name of the employer you've applied to - how do you explain that to the Jobcentre?

Post by Absolut on Thu May 18, 2017 9:57 am

Mary_FV wrote: Taking notes is an expected function for anyone providing advice and guidance (GP, counselors, careers advisors etc.).

Yep, I think they will say it falls under the "assessing" part of the interview rules.
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Re: You don't know the name of the employer you've applied to - how do you explain that to the Jobcentre?

Post by Caker on Thu May 18, 2017 10:04 am

While I agree with what you have said Mary, I think there is also the question about the level of detail that a claimant is required to provide.

In the past, I just supplied vague detail i.e. 'I applied for 3 vacancies from xxx website'.

@ABC It looks like you are being asked specifically which employers you have applied to, although I would expect that it would be sufficient to just mention the agencies to which you applied (they are the 'employer'). I am not clear why the roach needs more detail than that or what they would do with any additional information, even if you could obtain it. scratch
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Re: You don't know the name of the employer you've applied to - how do you explain that to the Jobcentre?

Post by Admin on Thu May 18, 2017 10:21 am

Taking notes is an expected function for anyone providing advice and guidance (GP, counselors, careers advisors etc. wrote:

taking notes is one thing but an adviser copying every job of a claiment is another thats very close to tracking a jobseeker's jobs

the same would be said when a job advisor takes away a jobseekers jobsearch to take a copy or scan a copy onto a computer that is tracking a jobseeker's jobsearch from them every 2 weeks

the same thing why ujm was created for in the first place to track a jobseeker

the onus is to provide your jobsearch by showing, but to keep your own copies just incase its sent to the dm by the adviser
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Re: You don't know the name of the employer you've applied to - how do you explain that to the Jobcentre?

Post by Mary_FV on Thu May 18, 2017 10:24 am

The level of detail is at the claimant's discretion.  The same applies for any advice appointment we attend.

If a doubt is raised more detail can be provided.

CJSA 1814 2007

Commissioner Williams advised...
"claimants would be wise to remember the advice of Commissioner Brown in the Northern Ireland decision C1/00-01 (JSA) and C2/00-01 (JSA) to keep a record and corroborative proof. Much computer software automatically does that."
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Re: You don't know the name of the employer you've applied to - how do you explain that to the Jobcentre?

Post by Admin on Thu May 18, 2017 10:31 am

what you might have to ask for is can an adviser take notes of your jobsearch history like take a hand written copy of it

or ask directly if they can provide a link to the law that says they can copy your jobsearch history and ask them to mandate you to allow them to take a written copy of it

its more down to take a sanction to then goto the dm prove youve done your jobsearch then refuse the adviser from doing so as already been down that road and won your case
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Re: You don't know the name of the employer you've applied to - how do you explain that to the Jobcentre?

Post by Mary_FV on Thu May 18, 2017 10:51 am

Many people I have helped have not provided sufficient detail and the dis allowance plus sanction have been overturned with a Mandatory Re-consideration or an Appeal.

I would suggest that people have all the information ready just in case, it saves the time and stress of appealing and being without money for some time.


Last edited by Mary_FV on Thu May 18, 2017 10:52 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add info)
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Re: You don't know the name of the employer you've applied to - how do you explain that to the Jobcentre?

Post by Caker on Thu May 18, 2017 11:15 am

......yes, always keep your detailed proof in those situations. Smile
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Re: You don't know the name of the employer you've applied to - how do you explain that to the Jobcentre?

Post by Mary_FV on Thu May 18, 2017 1:02 pm

Useful FOI

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/universal_jobmatch_and_providing

Relevant comment...

"...it is not necessary to obtain a person's consent in order to process their personal data if the processing is necessary for the purpose of a Government Department's functions. DWP considers that processing JSA claimants' information for the purpose of checking that they have complied with their obligation to look for work is necessary for the purpose of DWP's functions under the Jobseekers Act 1995."

And

Considering whether the level of activity is enough to meet the
ASE condition
35. The more information a claimant can provide about their work search
activities, the less doubt there is as to whether they have met the
requirements under Actively Seeking Employment.
36. To avoid any kind of doubt, claimants need to understand:
ï‚· what it is we expect of them;
ï‚· what information we are looking for;
ï‚· the kind of examples they can use to provide it; and
 what will happen to them if they don’t meet the conditions for Actively
Seeking Employment. That is, that their benefit will stop and they will
no longer qualify or Jobseeker’s Allowance and that if they make a new
claim after such a failure, they may not receive their benefit for up to 4
weeks or 13 weeks if they’ve previously received an intermediate
sanction within a 52 week period.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/219313/response/543161/attach/html/9/Work%20Search%20Reviews.pdf.html
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Re: You don't know the name of the employer you've applied to - how do you explain that to the Jobcentre?

Post by Caker on Thu May 18, 2017 3:25 pm

....Oh, I see. I have been fortunate in the past; WCs (the good ones) have accepted my written job search evidence at face value and not queried anything. I believe this was as much to do with time constraints as anything else. On the whole, I have been fortunate enough to come into contact with decent JC workers most of the time. I know some of these are no longer there.
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Re: You don't know the name of the employer you've applied to - how do you explain that to the Jobcentre?

Post by Mary_FV on Thu May 18, 2017 4:10 pm

Most of the people I have helped have been caught on the hop! Sad

Be aware and prepared is the best advice I can give.



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Re: You don't know the name of the employer you've applied to - how do you explain that to the Jobcentre?

Post by ABC on Tue May 23, 2017 7:21 pm

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Re: You don't know the name of the employer you've applied to - how do you explain that to the Jobcentre?

Post by ABC on Tue May 23, 2017 7:32 pm

Mary_FV wrote:Taking notes is an expected function for anyone providing advice and guidance (GP, counselors, careers advisors etc.).


True, but doctors, counsellors and career advisers et al. are not using that info in a malicious manner to get you sanctioned (sectioned maybe  Razz ). It's actively seeking info to incriminate us with. With the Jobcentre it has nothing to do with on-going help based on them keeping notes about the claimants job search and everything to do with actively seeking ways to sanction us.
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Re: You don't know the name of the employer you've applied to - how do you explain that to the Jobcentre?

Post by Brutus on Wed May 24, 2017 1:45 am

[font=Comic Sans MS] In addition is worth remembering that many, if not the majority of commercial ad are simply fake (if one analyses the html code, would find that most are a modified version of previous ads. So it is not a uge crime just to invent an employer, that the WC will not be able anyway to confirm or deny... [font]
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Re: You don't know the name of the employer you've applied to - how do you explain that to the Jobcentre?

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